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Retro Hardware Collecting rants

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Reply 700 of 934, by Miphee

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imi wrote on 2020-09-10, 14:43:

nothing ever happens, after all ebay makes money in the process.

I've heard a few conspiracy theories about the local auction site. First, bidding on your own items is illegal but since the owner of the auction site gets more money it gets overlooked. It usually happens with auctions that start at $1 and stay there until the very end.
Second, according to the rumor there are people who specialize in bidding on behalf of the seller for a fee. They drive up the price of the item with early bidding, use multiple accounts to create interest, ask public questions about the item or offer a lot for it, usually much more than the maximum bid. That makes other bidders think that someone is about to strike a deal behind their backs and start bidding more. Bidding wars are all about psychology and getting people to bid early is in their best interests.
There is a feature here that is designed to incite a bidding war. If someone bids within 5 minutes before the end of the auction the 5 minutes countdown restart. This eliminates snipers who wait till the last second and gives people the opportunity to continue bidding cent by cent. If 2 people want the item real bad then it drives up the price like crazy. In the end they just want to defeat the other guy instead of concentrating on the value of the item.
All psychology.

Reply 701 of 934, by Miphee

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-09-10, 19:22:

I've actually never had a bad experience with eBay support when I have called them.

Neither have I. It's common knowledge that they favor the buyer and sellers don't have a chance even when they did nothing wrong. Many sellers left Ebay because of that and the one-sided feedback system.

Reply 702 of 934, by darry

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dr_st wrote on 2020-09-10, 16:21:

Something tells me that with your attitude, you will more frequently end up disappointed, but maybe this is what you want. After all, one should have more things to rant about than just the new forum engine on VOGONS.

Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had almost exclusively positive interaction with Ebay sellers . Obviously, they all want positive feedback, but I have often seen them go above and beyond what was required of them . I think that I have only once left negative feedback in about 20 years . I do not include the few cases where a sale has been cancelled after the fact by the seller without explanation . The times that has happened were rare and occured very quickly after the sale concluded, so I only lost a bit of time .

Reply 703 of 934, by Horun

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darry wrote on 2020-09-10, 19:37:
dr_st wrote on 2020-09-10, 16:21:

Something tells me that with your attitude, you will more frequently end up disappointed, but maybe this is what you want. After all, one should have more things to rant about than just the new forum engine on VOGONS.

Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had almost exclusively positive interaction with Ebay sellers . Obviously, they all want positive feedback, but I have often seen them go above and beyond what was required of them . I think that I have only once left negative feedback in about 20 years . I do not include the few cases where a sale has been cancelled after the fact by the seller without explanation . The times that has happened were rare and occured very quickly after the sale concluded, so I only lost a bit of time .

I have had great luck with sellers also, most have responded within one day if I have a question. I am a bit picky as to which sellers I bid or buy-now from so maybe that skews the positives a bit my direction.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 704 of 934, by cyclone3d

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darry wrote on 2020-09-10, 19:37:
dr_st wrote on 2020-09-10, 16:21:

Something tells me that with your attitude, you will more frequently end up disappointed, but maybe this is what you want. After all, one should have more things to rant about than just the new forum engine on VOGONS.

Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had almost exclusively positive interaction with Ebay sellers . Obviously, they all want positive feedback, but I have often seen them go above and beyond what was required of them . I think that I have only once left negative feedback in about 20 years . I do not include the few cases where a sale has been cancelled after the fact by the seller without explanation . The times that has happened were rare and occured very quickly after the sale concluded, so I only lost a bit of time .

This is true for me as well for the most part. I recently had a seller get shipments mixed up and sent me the wrong item... new help and packages were pretty much the same size so it didn't really surprise me that it happened. I contacted the seller and they of course accepted the return. On top of that they refunded me before they even received the return and then when they got my item back they posted it up for me with a 30% discount from what I originally paid. Way more than what they needed to do.

As a seller I had a buyer contact me 1.5 years later saying that the card I sent them turned out to be faulty... was brand new in sealed packaging but I know it can happen. Still less than 1/1000 failure rate.He said he was collecting parts for a build. I ended up having him send me the faulty card back after I sent him a new card. I wasn't really happy about the buyer waiting that long to test the card but since I still had some of the same cards I went ahead and replaced it.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 705 of 934, by cyclone3d

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-10, 19:35:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-09-10, 19:22:

I've actually never had a bad experience with eBay support when I have called them.

Neither have I. It's common knowledge that they favor the buyer and sellers don't have a chance even when they did nothing wrong. Many sellers left Ebay because of that and the one-sided feedback system.

I've actually thought about leaving eBay a couple times over idiotic buyers....
1. They don't actually read the listing and then are upset that something doesn't work for them.
2. The don't actually read the listing OR look at the pictures and then complain that some antique item isn't in pristine condition even though the listing and pictures are very detailed and very clearly show and explain any imperfections.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 706 of 934, by imi

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well that one time I read the listing and looked at the pictures, and there was an add-on flash disk in the pictures and the description said everything in the pictures is included but the ram... now call me an idiot, but a flash disk is not RAM ^^

but yeah reading some ratings I get that a lot... I don't even think about selling on ebay, I wouldn't have the nerves for it.

Reply 707 of 934, by Miphee

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-09-10, 21:13:

I've actually thought about leaving eBay a couple times over idiotic buyers....

I don't know how a business can function under a constant threat like that.
And what's the point of the one-sided feedback system? Okay, it prevents revenge feedback from big sellers against small buyers but what about a neutral feedback? That would give the seller a chance to tell his side of the story without leaving an undeserved positive for the buyer. They are not even allowed to say anything bad in a positive review.
No wonder scummy buyers started to abuse the system.
That's why I used a free site when I was into selling, dealing with feedbacks and fees just isn't worth it for people who want to sell a few items/month.

Reply 708 of 934, by dr_st

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Buyer feedback is not an important feature. Since all transactions are initiated by the buyers, it's the seller feedback that matters, because buyers use it to decide whether they trust the seller or not.

When looking at the seller's feedback, you can see all the negative left for that seller as well as the seller's response. Mind you that I'm not talking about reciprocal feedback, but the response the seller left for the negative feedback. It is more important than reciprocal feedback. Not sure if a seller can leave a reply on neutral feedback, though. If not, I think this feature should be added.

Does eBay automatically impose sanctions against sellers if their feedback falls below a certain ratio? If not, then it's not a real "threat", except to the extent that buyers are willing to use it to judge sellers.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 709 of 934, by Miphee

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dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 06:55:

Does eBay automatically impose sanctions against sellers if their feedback falls below a certain ratio? If not, then it's not a real "threat", except to the extent that buyers are willing to use it to judge sellers.

Defects can cause many problems:
- your listing gets ranked lower in search results
- no promoted listings
- your sales are limited
- higher fees
- you get banned

People with fewer sales only need a few negatives to get banned and scummy buyers know that.
Sellers could also exclude 100%> buyers if their feedback % was real. Right now every single buyer sits at 100%, even those who opened 10 frivolous cases in the last month. It's bad. Sellers should be able to decide if they want to do business with a 100%> guy or not.
The buyer gets to decide based on the seller's feedback %, why can't it work both ways? Because it would bring sales down and Ebay wouldn't get paid as much?
No thank you.
The local auction site works like that, sellers are free to set the buyer feedback %. Some set it to 100%, others are more forgiving and set it to 90%. Anybody below that gets excluded from bidding/buying. Buyers can also decide based on the seller's rating. It's not a flawless system but it's better than Ebay's.

Reply 710 of 934, by dr_st

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 07:21:

Defects can cause many problems:

What's a "defect"? How does negative feedback translate to a defect?

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 07:21:

People with fewer sales only need a few negatives to get banned and scummy buyers know that.

Again - how does negative feedback cause a ban? I'm asking because I am really not familiar with the seller-side policies, having never sold anything on eBay.

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 07:21:

Sellers could also exclude 100%> buyers if their feedback % was real. Right now every single buyer sits at 100%, even those who opened 10 frivolous cases in the last month. It's bad. Sellers should be able to decide if they want to do business with a 100%> guy or not.

I think a seller can see what feedback the buyer left for others. Granted it's not all. I wonder if the seller can also see "defects" on buyer's accounts (for example - unpaid items).

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 07:21:

The buyer gets to decide based on the seller's feedback %, why can't it work both ways? Because it would bring sales down and Ebay wouldn't get paid as much?

Probably.
In the end it's a system that's designed to work in the combined best interest of everyone. And yes, eBay has to make a profit, to keep the system alive. If they found that having such policies is what helps them drive sales, then these are the policies there will be. If you personally don't want to deal with these policies as a seller - don't sell there. There are apparently enough people who still want to sell, even with the current policies. Otherwise sales would actually go down, and eBay would quickly have to adjust something.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 711 of 934, by Miphee

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dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 08:55:

What's a "defect"? How does negative feedback translate to a defect?

Defects include everything that made the buyer unhappy. It can literally be anything that usually lead to an opened case and a negative feedback.

dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 08:55:

Again - how does negative feedback cause a ban?

If the defect rate reaches 3% then the seller gets banned permanently but the seller gets restricted way before that.

dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 08:55:

I think a seller can see what feedback the buyer left for others. Granted it's not all. I wonder if the seller can also see "defects" on buyer's accounts (for example - unpaid items).

By the time a seller sees that the buyer is problematic he already made the purchase/bid so the transaction has to be completed. The whole point is to prevent bad buyers from starting a transaction in the first place. Excluding them based on their feedback score does that.

dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 08:55:

In the end it's a system that's designed to work in the combined best interest of everyone... If you personally don't want to deal with these policies as a seller - don't sell there.

Right now sellers have no rights there and Ebay always sides with the buyers. Just browse through heaps and heaps of complaints from sellers on this issue. They are defenseless against dishonest buyers. (pay special attention to SNAD cases) I'm not making this up and I'm not an Ebay seller either. I just hate injustice.
And yes, many people already decided not to sell there because of this, myself included. I don't want to be at the mercy of a flawed system and the buyer's tantrums when it's me who pays the fees directly to Ebay. If they offer no protection for me then they get no business from me either.

Reply 712 of 934, by SodaSuccubus

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Do people really not bother to read descriptions these days? It takes only a few seconds and I guarantee you most people who sell any kind of retro hardware oughta tell you streight up that they don't accept returns due to the nature of this stuff.

Most motherboard/part resellers iv bought from tend to do that anyway. I would think that should save alot of BS.

Reply 713 of 934, by dr_st

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Miphee, I feel that you either don't understand or are being deliberately misleading.
Please see edit below.

I just searched online about "defects" on eBay and found nothing remotely close to:

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 09:24:

Defects include everything that made the buyer unhappy. It can literally be anything

What I see is are things like this and this which state:

eBay states that there are three kinds of defect: 1. Transactions canceled by the seller. 2. eBay Money Back Guarantee cases whe […]
Show full quote

eBay states that there are three kinds of defect:
1. Transactions canceled by the seller.
2. eBay Money Back Guarantee cases where eBay decided in favor of the buyer.
3. PayPal Purchase Protection cases where PayPal decided in favor of the buyer.

Sounds like very specific things, and negative feedback is not one of them. And only cases where the parties did not reach an agreement, and eBay/Paypal decided in favor of the buyer.

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 09:24:
dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 08:55:

Again - how does negative feedback cause a ban?

If the defect rate reaches 3% then the seller gets banned permanently but the seller gets restricted way before that.

Again you are mixing up negative feedback % and defect %. I found nothing that suggests that negative feedback leads to registering defects on the seller's account.

Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 09:24:

Right now sellers have no rights there and Ebay always sides with the buyers. Just browse through heaps and heaps of complaints from sellers on this issue. They are defenseless against dishonest buyers. (pay special attention to SNAD cases) I'm not making this up and I'm not an Ebay seller either. I just hate injustice.

You are exaggerating. eBay does most of the time side with the buyers by default, and you know what? They are right to do so, and not only because it probably makes them more money. That's because the buyer pays money, and does so upfront, and this money has no smell and no color. Money cannot be "defective" or "significantly not as described". It cannot be broken in transit due to improper packagine.

Sellers have more power than the buyers when the transaction is initiated. They don't have to ship until the buyer's payment cleared. They determine what to send, and how to package it, which service to use, whether to insure it or not, and so on and so forth. It is only fair that eBay and Paypal give more power to the buyer (at least by default) when something goes wrong.

Scummy buyers are a thing, just like scummy sellers. There are more buyers than sellers, though, and a rotten seller can drive away more buyers than a rotten buyer can sellers. At least, this is probably the conclusion that eBay had reached before they decided on their current policies.

Still, whether you are a buyer or a seller, you can significantly reduce the chances of being wronged, by properly communicating, properly documenting, and using the damn services that eBay puts right there for you to use (such as customer resolution center, or feedback dispute / defect rate removal). It will never be 100% but it will help.

Edit: I believe I found some possible cause for the confusion. Negative feedback use to count as a defect, but with the revised policies, it is no longer so. It makes sense that it goes hand in hand with the other policy changes regarding feedback (e.g., seller cannot leave negatives). It seems that eBay simply decided that feedback in itself is not a good parameter to base defect rates on.
Source: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling-Q-A/neg … ht/true#M147329
also: https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Archive-Selle … ct/td-p/4731871

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 714 of 934, by Miphee

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dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 10:23:

Miphee, I feel that you either don't understand or are deliberately misleading.

"A seller's transaction defect rate is the percentage of their total transactions that had defect. A defect is a part of a transaction that eBay considers to have created a bad shopping experience for buyers. ... When a seller cancels a transaction for out of stock. If a seller is unable to resolve a problem through the Resolution Center."
I thought I didn't have to explain this but I was wrong. What do you get after a lost case? A negative. Duh!
I hate when they don't read.
Read first, leave a wall of text later.

Reply 715 of 934, by imi

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probably half my ebay purchases are through bank transfer, so I'm mostly out of the loop from ebay being able to help anyways... sure could say that's my own fault... but that's the game if you want to find good stuff.

Reply 716 of 934, by dr_st

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 10:40:

I hate when they don't read.
Read first, leave a wall of text later.

I edited my post. Feel free to read it now. If it is still not clear to you that you are wrong, then there is no point in us talking about this any further.

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 717 of 934, by Miphee

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dr_st wrote on 2020-09-11, 10:47:

I edited my post. Feel free to read it now. If it is still not clear to you that you are wrong, then there is no point in us talking about this any further.

Too much work for a wall of text, you clearly don't understand it so I'll leave it to you. Muted.

Reply 718 of 934, by Miphee

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I'll just leave this here, take a look at the chipset logo. Yeah.

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Reply 719 of 934, by Tetrium

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Miphee wrote on 2020-09-11, 16:20:

I'll just leave this here, take a look at the chipset logo. Yeah.

So what am I looking at? Care to elaborate?
What I see is a basic FS BTX board? The chipset logo is under the heatsink and the non-heatsinked chip reads only "Intel" with the rest of the text unreadable due to the quality of the pic being not good enough to do so.

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