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PSU Voltage Concerns

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First post, by janskjaer

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Although the PSU itself may or may not be considered old hardware (new stock in 2015), the system it powers is.

The BIOS currently reports the following:

CPU Vcore:	~1.64V
3.3VSB: ~3.37V
+3.3V: ~3.15V
+5.0V: ~4.40V
+12V: ~12.28V
-12V: (-)~12.28V
+2.5V: ~2.54V
5VSB: ~4.73V

The specification of my Alpine 500W PSU:

+3.3V:		20A
+5.0V: 30A
+12V: 30A
-12V: 0.5A
5VSB: 2.0A

Should I be concerned by those numbers, particularly the +3.3V and +5V rails?
Now, I know that the Athlon XP CPUs consume considerably more power from the +3.3V and +5V rails than other CPUs of the time. Could this be why I am seeing such results? Knowing that I'm using an AthlonXP, should I still be concerned?

The PSU is purchased from new with very little to light usage to the present day. The system does not have many devices applied to it. Currently, it's running:
- 1 x 256MB PC2700 RAM
- 3dfx Voodoo3 3000 AGP
- Pioneer 105-S DVD-ROM
- PS/2 Microsoft Keyboard Pro
- Wireless 2.4GHz USB mouse

I'm using onboard sound and there are no interface cards installed. I can't see anything that would drag on the rails other than the CPU, although I'm no expert when it comes to PSUs. I thought 30A on the +5V rail was quite respectful for a modern PSU , but I do realise that PSUs of the lower brands (not Corsair, EVGA, Seasonic etc...) can waiver somewhat from their specifications.

DELL Dimension XPS M200s
:Intel Pentium MMX 200MHz
:64MB RAM
:MS-DOS 6.22 / Win95b
:Matrox Millenium II PCI
:Matrox m3D (PowerVR PCX2)
Chaintech Apogee 7VJL Apogee
:AMD Athlon XP 2800+
:3GB RAM
:Win98SE / Win2000 SP4
:3Dlabs Oxygen VX1 32MB AGP 4x

Reply 1 of 23, by imi

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seems like some pretty no-name PSU, I wouldn't trust that in general, especially not with precious old hardware.

could be that it needs more load on the 12V line to regulate correctly.
12.28V and 3.15V is still in spec, but 4.4V on the 5V line is definitely out of spec.

also I wouldn't trust BIOS readouts and measure with a multimeter instead.

Reply 2 of 23, by Horun

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Agree with imi ! The main 5v line is very low at 4.4v, should be at least 4.8v to be in spec. Anything within +/- 0.2v is generally good on mains (yes I know the specs are +/- 5% on the mains, +/-10% on others). Use a voltmeter and double check them

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 3 of 23, by kalohimal

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Yeah 4.4V on 5V rail is really low. You could unplug some of the heavy duty cards (e.g. the Voodoo, replace with a normal AGP card) and HDDs to see if it returns. Most probably due to leaky caps on the 5V output, as increased ESR will draw lots of current till the pwm controller IC couldn't compensate for it.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.

Reply 4 of 23, by darry

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1) Lower tier PSU makers have a tendency to be overly-optimistic about their products' specs . Where I come from, this is known as lying .
2) Assuming the reading is accurate, that 5V is indeed out of spec .

And, most importantly,

3) A voltage value measured with the onboard sensor or even a multi-meter does not tell the whole story . There is such a thing as ripple (voltage variations) that can only be measured with an oscilloscope . On a crappy power supply, even if the voltage is apparently in spec, the ripple may not be . Additionally, driving a turd of a PSU so hard that it undervolts a rail likely leads to even higher ripple .
Excessive ripple is bad for hardware and can shorten its service life; it is hard on capacitors.

My advice : Chuck that PSU to nearest recycling centre and get something decent .

Reply 6 of 23, by darry

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TheMobRules wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:40:

Definitely measure with a multimeter first. BIOS voltage reading can be wildly inaccurate, especially in older PCs.

If you do not have a multi-meter, a quick, but not 100% accurate test, is to underclock that CPU as much as possible (say 50%) and re-check that 5V voltage rail, if it goes back within spec, it is likely, but not certain, that the PSU is actually being over-sollicited on its 5V rail . A multi-meter measurement is, of course, preferable .

Reply 7 of 23, by Horun

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darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:33:

3) A voltage value measured with the onboard sensor or even a multi-meter does not tell the whole story . There is such a thing as ripple (voltage variations) that can only be measured with an oscilloscope . On a crappy power supply, even if the voltage is apparently in spec, the ripple may not be . Additionally, driving a turd of a PSU so hard that it undervolts a rail likely leads to even higher ripple .
Excessive ripple is bad for hardware and can shorten its service life; it is hard on capacitors.

My advice : Chuck that PSU to nearest recycling centre and get something decent .

Agree with everything except that some DVM (Fluke, Klein and some others with shielded leads) do allow measuring standard AC ripple on a DC line.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 8 of 23, by darry

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Horun wrote on 2020-06-13, 03:36:
darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 02:33:

3) A voltage value measured with the onboard sensor or even a multi-meter does not tell the whole story . There is such a thing as ripple (voltage variations) that can only be measured with an oscilloscope . On a crappy power supply, even if the voltage is apparently in spec, the ripple may not be . Additionally, driving a turd of a PSU so hard that it undervolts a rail likely leads to even higher ripple .
Excessive ripple is bad for hardware and can shorten its service life; it is hard on capacitors.

My advice : Chuck that PSU to nearest recycling centre and get something decent .

Agree with everything except that some DVM (Fluke, Klein and some others with shielded leads) do allow measuring standard AC ripple on a DC line.

Thanks, that's good to know, but I bet those meters are not inexpensive . Any recommendations for a decent and relatively affordable one ?

Reply 9 of 23, by Horun

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🤣 the Flukes are not cheap, the Fluke 117 is about $170, the Klein MM600 is about $70 but neither include shielded cables.. Have heard the AstroAI TRMS 6000 are fairly good and not expensive. The main quirk is using shielded cables to read the very low AC on the DC without picking up external noise, think nearly all fairly good DVM can do that (can read AC on DC) will work OK if you use proper shielded cabling. You can make them or as some do: twist the leads together to aid in noise canceling or modify the Temp probe cable (if included) by cutting the end probe off and adding clips.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 10 of 23, by darry

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Horun wrote on 2020-06-13, 04:26:

🤣 the Flukes are not cheap, the Fluke 117 is about $170, the Klein MM600 is about $70 but neither include shielded cables.. Have heard the AstroAI TRMS 6000 are fairly good and not expensive. The main quirk is using shielded cables to read the very low AC on the DC without picking up external noise, think nearly all fairly good DVM can do that (can read AC on DC) will work OK if you use proper shielded cabling. You can make them or as some do: twist the leads together to aid in noise canceling or modify the Temp probe cable (if included) by cutting the end probe off and adding clips.

Thanks again. I'll give those some consideration .

Reply 11 of 23, by bloodem

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I can tell you from experience, higher end Athlon Thunderbird 1333/1400 and Athlon XP CPUs (particularly Barton 2500+ and above) require a very strong 5V rail (we're talking about 35 Amps minimum, even more, depending on what video card you are using). And those 35Amps actually need to be real, so you can forget about cheap PSUs that advertise 30A on the 5V rail.
Or, you could find one of the late Athlon XP boards that have the CPU power connector (which draws its power from the 12V rail).

2 x PGA132 / 5 x Socket 3 / 9 x Socket 7 / 8 x SS7 / 12 x Socket 8 / 11 x Slot 1 / 3 x Slot A
5 x Socket 370 / 8 x Socket A / 2 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 4 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: Core i7 7700k

Reply 12 of 23, by dionb

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Until you've done the test (underclock and check voltage should be easy even if you don't have equipment) we don't know for sure, but this sounds very plausibly a PSU issue. 30A is 150W and should be more than enough to handle both a 75W-max CPU and a bunch of cards, but as stated crappy PSU vendors put downright fictional numbers on stickers, or worse, they do measure it, but instead of quoting sustained output they quote peak output which cannot be sustained.

Just for reference, a very average 300W PSU from 2001-2003 generally did 30A on the 5V line, I have a 350W PSU from that period that offers 50A on 5V. There's a lot of - valid - concern about using old PSUs to power vintage machines, but when you have a challenging build from the 2000-2003 era when the limits of CPU power delivery over 5V were being pushed, you might find that even a good modern PSU will have trouble supplying it. In any event, whether you stay with modern PSUs or try to find an old one, you want a good PSU. That doesn't mean big numbers (they can be meaningless as explained above), it means a manufacturer with a good reputation and good quality components in the individual model.

A crude but effective measure for that quality (if you can't find info on a specific model number) is weight. Take that 300W PSU I referred to. It's an AOpen-branded device made by Fortron Source Power, generally a relaiable manufacturer used by a lot of OEMs. It weighs 2.3kg. I have another PSU, with a "Koenig" label claiming to supply 350W, with higher listed power on all the lines than my FSP unit. It weighs 1.3kg. Now, even if you don't know a thing about the vendors or models, it would be a very safe bet that the 2.3kg "300W" PSU would be a far better unit than the 1.3kg "350W" PSU and that whatever claims are made on the latter are optimistic at best, and certainly its real output will be lower than whatever is listed on the better PSU.
Why? Because good components, large heatsinks etc are heavy. A light PSU will have smaller heatsinks, lower-specced components and overall far lower tolerances. Also they frequently lack protection circuitry for whatever is connected to it. So light=crap and heavy=generally good, particularly if the devices are of similar vintage.

Word of warning: some shitty vendors have caught on to this and there have been reports of PSUs with a layer of cement to provide that weight. You should always look inside a PSU before using it to check for bad caps anyway.

Reply 13 of 23, by bloodem

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Well, I don't know... even though the CPU's max TDP is ~75-80W, I'm not sure it's indicative of the actual power consumption. When measuring the wattage at the power outlet, you will most certainly see 130 - 140W for an XP Barton or Athlon Thunderbird (just did it a few days ago for a Thunderbird 1400 CPU, using an Antec True Power 2.0 550W PSU, which has 40 Amps on the 5V rail). And this was without any 12V power consumption, except for the CPU fan. Even if you factor in the PSU's efficiency, the consumption is still higher (which means that other components also draw significant power from the 3.3/5V rails and/or the CPU TDP is just marketing - kind of what Intel does now).

What I do know, is that a Seasonic S12II-520W with 24 Amps on the 5V rail, refuses to power up a Biostar M7VIT PRO + Thunderbird 1400 CPU even when paired with a GeForce 2 MX (which typically only needs 4W of power). I even tried adding a Radeon 9800 Pro in the mix, to add some power draw on the 12V rail (in case there's a required minimum) and it still didn't work. Even though this is not one of the best PSUs that Seasonic makes, it's still way above average, so you'd think that it should be able to at least power on the board...

2 x PGA132 / 5 x Socket 3 / 9 x Socket 7 / 8 x SS7 / 12 x Socket 8 / 11 x Slot 1 / 3 x Slot A
5 x Socket 370 / 8 x Socket A / 2 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 4 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: Core i7 7700k

Reply 14 of 23, by dionb

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bloodem wrote on 2020-06-13, 11:12:

Well, I don't know... even though the CPU's max TDP is ~75-80W, I'm not sure it's indicative of the actual power consumption. When measuring the wattage at the power outlet, you will most certainly see 130 - 140W for an XP Barton or Athlon Thunderbird (just did it a few days ago for a Thunderbird 1400 CPU, using an Antec True Power 2.0 550W PSU, which has 40 Amps on the 5V rail). And this was without any 12V power consumption, except for the CPU fan. Even if you factor in the PSU's efficiency, the consumption is still higher (which means that other components also draw significant power from the 3.3/5V rails and/or the CPU TDP is just marketing - kind of what Intel does now).

What I do know, is that a Seasonic S12II-520W with 24 Amps on the 5V rail, refuses to power up a Biostar M7VIT PRO + Thunderbird 1400 CPU even when paired with a GeForce 2 MX (which typically only needs 4W of power). I even tried adding a Radeon 9800 Pro in the mix, to add some power draw on the 12V rail (in case there's a required minimum) and it still didn't work. Even though this is not one of the best PSUs that Seasonic makes, it's still way above average, so you'd think that it should be able to at least power on the board...

The efficiency quoted for a PSU is based on a typical load, which for a modern PSU is 12V-heavy. Quite probably it's (much) less efficient on the 5V line. A system with a Thunderbird 1400 would probably draw about 90-100W total, so 130-140W on the power outlet implies overall efficiency of about 70%, which is still pretty good - no worse than was common on most PSUs back in the day.

Another factor is the efficiency of the VRM on the motherboard. That CPU "only" draws about 75W max, but the 5V supplied by the PSU still needs to be converted into 1.75V by the motherboard. I don't know what the efficiency typically is, but it's going to be well under 100%, so that could (in part) explain how a 15A CPU can fail on a PSU with a 24A rail. The other part is undoubtedly internal to the PSU itself. Perhaps the rated 24A is only its peak load, not its sustained load. Perhaps it was once able to sustain 24A but due to ageing it has lost stability at high current draw - or it's got something to do with the imbalance vs the high-12V draw it was designed for. The R9800 might change that, but it probably also draws from the AGP slot as well, and that power comes from the 5V line too, so perhaps not as much difference.

Reply 15 of 23, by janskjaer

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OK, so this thing ultimately has to come out. It's just not suitable.

A multimeter is on the shopping list as I don't currently have one at hand.
In the meantime, I'll check with a lower-demanding AGP card (Permedia 2) and see if that makes any difference.
I forgot to mention the HDD I was using. I'm actually using an IDE -> CF adapter and an 8GB CompactFlash with Win98SE installed so it should be even less power draw than a conventional disk.

I've not noticed any hardware related issues, other than the 3dfx Voodoo3 PCI graphics cards crashing when things get demanding (3DMark, hi-res in games.
However, not one AGP card I've tested has had any issues and all have worked flawlessly.

3DLabs ELSA GLoria Synergy A8 AGP (Permedia 2) both 4MB and 8MB models
3DLabs Oxygen VX1 32MB AGP
3dfx Voodoo3 2000 AGP/PCI
3dfx Voodoo3 3000 AGP/PCI
Rendition Verite 8MB V2000 PCI
QDI Legend AGP (Rendition Verite V2200)

I've been using this PSU with my system for about 12 months in total, 2-3 times a week, ranging from 1 to 4 hours for each use.
What impact could this have had on any other hardware? What damage could have been caused, and what should I start checking for?

The motherboard I'm using is the Chaintech 7VJL Apogee, which according to the manual, has the additional 12V power connector. Perhaps the 12V rail has been assisting the PSU in weaker areas?

Another question is, because modern PSU specs are low amperage on the +3.3V and +5V rails, what modern PSus should I be looking at?
If I want to run this system with a 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP and some additional devices, do I need to be looking at older PSUs with higher amperage on those rails?
I know there has already been debates on this, whether to buy old/used/stronger or new/weaker:
PSU for Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 XT?
Quick Athlon XP PSU question.
Using new ATX power supplies with old ATX motherboards

DELL Dimension XPS M200s
:Intel Pentium MMX 200MHz
:64MB RAM
:MS-DOS 6.22 / Win95b
:Matrox Millenium II PCI
:Matrox m3D (PowerVR PCX2)
Chaintech Apogee 7VJL Apogee
:AMD Athlon XP 2800+
:3GB RAM
:Win98SE / Win2000 SP4
:3Dlabs Oxygen VX1 32MB AGP 4x

Reply 16 of 23, by darry

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dionb wrote on 2020-06-13, 14:39:
bloodem wrote on 2020-06-13, 11:12:

Well, I don't know... even though the CPU's max TDP is ~75-80W, I'm not sure it's indicative of the actual power consumption. When measuring the wattage at the power outlet, you will most certainly see 130 - 140W for an XP Barton or Athlon Thunderbird (just did it a few days ago for a Thunderbird 1400 CPU, using an Antec True Power 2.0 550W PSU, which has 40 Amps on the 5V rail). And this was without any 12V power consumption, except for the CPU fan. Even if you factor in the PSU's efficiency, the consumption is still higher (which means that other components also draw significant power from the 3.3/5V rails and/or the CPU TDP is just marketing - kind of what Intel does now).

What I do know, is that a Seasonic S12II-520W with 24 Amps on the 5V rail, refuses to power up a Biostar M7VIT PRO + Thunderbird 1400 CPU even when paired with a GeForce 2 MX (which typically only needs 4W of power). I even tried adding a Radeon 9800 Pro in the mix, to add some power draw on the 12V rail (in case there's a required minimum) and it still didn't work. Even though this is not one of the best PSUs that Seasonic makes, it's still way above average, so you'd think that it should be able to at least power on the board...

The efficiency quoted for a PSU is based on a typical load, which for a modern PSU is 12V-heavy. Quite probably it's (much) less efficient on the 5V line. A system with a Thunderbird 1400 would probably draw about 90-100W total, so 130-140W on the power outlet implies overall efficiency of about 70%, which is still pretty good - no worse than was common on most PSUs back in the day.

Another factor is the efficiency of the VRM on the motherboard. That CPU "only" draws about 75W max, but the 5V supplied by the PSU still needs to be converted into 1.75V by the motherboard. I don't know what the efficiency typically is, but it's going to be well under 100%, so that could (in part) explain how a 15A CPU can fail on a PSU with a 24A rail. The other part is undoubtedly internal to the PSU itself. Perhaps the rated 24A is only its peak load, not its sustained load. Perhaps it was once able to sustain 24A but due to ageing it has lost stability at high current draw - or it's got something to do with the imbalance vs the high-12V draw it was designed for. The R9800 might change that, but it probably also draws from the AGP slot as well, and that power comes from the 5V line too, so perhaps not as much difference.

I will just add that a modern power supply that use DC-DC converters for their secondary rails can still be quite efficient (80%-90% or more for the converters themselves multiplied by the efficiency of the 12V rail which powers the converters) when using those rails . It also won't have issues with an under-loaded 12V rail, as everything comes from the 12V rail anyway . https://www.digikey.ca/en/maker/blogs/introdu … 0load%20current.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC-to-DC_converter

Reply 17 of 23, by darry

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janskjaer wrote on 2020-06-13, 15:30:
OK, so this thing ultimately has to come out. It's just not suitable. […]
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OK, so this thing ultimately has to come out. It's just not suitable.

A multimeter is on the shopping list as I don't currently have one at hand.
In the meantime, I'll check with a lower-demanding AGP card (Permedia 2) and see if that makes any difference.
I forgot to mention the HDD I was using. I'm actually using an IDE -> CF adapter and an 8GB CompactFlash with Win98SE installed so it should be even less power draw than a conventional disk.

I've not noticed any hardware related issues, other than the 3dfx Voodoo3 PCI graphics cards crashing when things get demanding (3DMark, hi-res in games.
However, not one AGP card I've tested has had any issues and all have worked flawlessly.

3DLabs ELSA GLoria Synergy A8 AGP (Permedia 2) both 4MB and 8MB models
3DLabs Oxygen VX1 32MB AGP
3dfx Voodoo3 2000 AGP/PCI
3dfx Voodoo3 3000 AGP/PCI
Rendition Verite 8MB V2000 PCI
QDI Legend AGP (Rendition Verite V2200)

I've been using this PSU with my system for about 12 months in total, 2-3 times a week, ranging from 1 to 4 hours for each use.
What impact could this have had on any other hardware? What damage could have been caused, and what should I start checking for?

The motherboard I'm using is the Chaintech 7VJL Apogee, which according to the manual, has the additional 12V power connector. Perhaps the 12V rail has been assisting the PSU in weaker areas?

Another question is, because modern PSU specs are low amperage on the +3.3V and +5V rails, what modern PSus should I be looking at?
If I want to run this system with a 3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP and some additional devices, do I need to be looking at older PSUs with higher amperage on those rails?
I know there has already been debates on this, whether to buy old/used/stronger or new/weaker:
PSU for Athlon XP 3200+, Radeon 9800 XT?
Quick Athlon XP PSU question.
Using new ATX power supplies with old ATX motherboards

It's hard to guess what "damage" or "wear"might have occurred . There are some unknown variables. These are, mainly, how much ripple (which probably varies according to load) and the actual susceptibility of components to it (capacitor ratings and quality, design of power delivery circuits) . I would hazard a guess that since most of the parts that run on the 5V rail usually derive their actual operating power from that rail using voltage down-conversion circuits (typically linear regulators) , most, if any, long term effects will be limited to those circuits and will likely not have affected expensive/irreplaceable sub-components (GPU core, CPU itself, etc) . This likely means the if anything does eventually break, it has a much higher chance of being repairable . That said, I am anything but an expert in these matters, so take my statements with a grain of salt until others either confirm or infirm them .

The 12V power connector on the board is a good thing as it means that the board probably powers the CPU (using VRMs) through the 12V rail, but I cannot guarantee that is indeed the case .

As for old vs new PSU, the choice is essentially between a high end and expensive PSU (such as the Corsair RM850x) that provides 150W combined on 3.3V and 5V rails, which may not even be enough for your system's needs, or an older cheaper high quality PSU which will easily provide 200W combined on 3.3/5V, but will probably need to have it's capacitors replaced (crappy capacitor era) . I chose the new PSU route (RM850x) and am happy so far, but I am not using an Athlon .

Reply 18 of 23, by janskjaer

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Just an update:

I've replaced the PSU and tried it with two different ones:

A brand new old stock Jeanteach JNP-500AP 500W:

+3.3V:		30A
+5.0V: 40A
+12V1: 15A
+12V2: 18A
-5V: 0.3A
-12V: 0.8A
5VSB: 2.0A
CPU Vcore:	~1.64V
3.3VSB: ~3.37V
+3.3V: ~3.37V
+5.0V: ~4.91V
+12V: ~12.35V
-12V: (-)~11.70V
+2.5V: ~2.54V
5VSB: ~5.08V

And a Seasonic SS-600-HT:

+3.3V:		30A
+5.0V: 30A
+12V1: 18A
+12V2: 18A
-12V: 0.8A
5VSB: 2.0A
CPU Vcore:	~1.64V
3.3VSB: ~3.37V
+3.3V: ~3.24V
+5.0V: ~4.86V
+12V: ~11.96V
-12V: (-)~11.45V
+2.5V: ~2.54V
5VSB: ~4.97V

Both results are much higher than the original PSU, but now I must decide which is the best to go with.

The Jeantech has higher voltages on all the rails, is brand new from 2005/2006 and offers a -5V rail, which may be useful for any ISA motherboard that I may switch in at some point.
The only thing is, I don't know the quality of the capacitors.
The Seasonic is a trusted brand with supposedly good quality capacitors. The only issue is that the PSU appears to have been heavily used since it's manufacture in 2006.
Both seem to be of very high quality build, are both around the same weight (~3Kg) and both very silent.

I opened both and had to give the Seasonic a thorough clean (probably the worst PSU I have ever opened - it looked completely suffocated from dust and fluff).

I took some photos of inside the Jeantech in the hope someone may be familiar with it and advise on the capacitors.

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DELL Dimension XPS M200s
:Intel Pentium MMX 200MHz
:64MB RAM
:MS-DOS 6.22 / Win95b
:Matrox Millenium II PCI
:Matrox m3D (PowerVR PCX2)
Chaintech Apogee 7VJL Apogee
:AMD Athlon XP 2800+
:3GB RAM
:Win98SE / Win2000 SP4
:3Dlabs Oxygen VX1 32MB AGP 4x

Reply 19 of 23, by janskjaer

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Some additional photos inside the Jeantech. Apologies for the bad angles but it's difficult to show the inside.

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DELL Dimension XPS M200s
:Intel Pentium MMX 200MHz
:64MB RAM
:MS-DOS 6.22 / Win95b
:Matrox Millenium II PCI
:Matrox m3D (PowerVR PCX2)
Chaintech Apogee 7VJL Apogee
:AMD Athlon XP 2800+
:3GB RAM
:Win98SE / Win2000 SP4
:3Dlabs Oxygen VX1 32MB AGP 4x