VOGONS


First post, by videogamer555

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This isn't about DOSBox, but rather about using a modern mouse on a vintage computer.

Is there such a converter, aimed at the "vintage computer collector" market? My thought is this. It would consist of a box that would contain a microcontroller, that would have a USB port to plug in a modern mouse, and a serial cable hardwired to the output that would have a DB9 connector on the end that would then be plugged into the serial port of a vintage computer. If the serial port's RTS or DTR lines didn't provide enough power to run the converter's microcontroller, or the LED of a modern optical mouse, then the converter box should also have a power adapter port to plug in a 5V power adapter that would go to both the 5V pins of the USB mouse port and the microcontroller.

Does such a box exist yet to accomplish this? Or is this the type of thing I'd have to build myself?

Reply 1 of 17, by cyclone3d

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There is a project where you can make an adapter using a Raspberry Pi:
USB to serial mouse adapter - Raspberry Pi

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
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Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 2 of 17, by Jo22

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There are many projects about converting a ps/2 mouse signal to a rs232 mouse signal using a PIC or Atmel chip..
For USB, there are a few, too.

https://www.versalent.biz/usbm232.htm
https://hackaday.com/2017/10/09/a-converter-y … o-serial-mouse/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=py9QuBnTWds
https://hackaday.io/project/27575-ps2-to-rs23 … mouse-converter

Personally, though, I'd rather use a 3D printed replica of a Genius Mouse (GM-6) once it exists.
Using a modern, deformed laser mouse on a 486 or below feels so akward. It's like using a flat screen on an IBM 5150.
It's nice for testing, but destroys the atmosphere. On long "sessions" I'd rather use a cheap boring beige ps/2 mouse from the early 2000s. The kind that usually lay around on fleamarkets on the ground of dirty plastic or cardboard boxes. Or something like that. 😉

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 3 of 17, by videogamer555

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-09, 08:24:
There are many projects about converting a ps/2 mouse signal to a rs232 mouse signal using a PIC or Atmel chip.. For USB, there […]
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There are many projects about converting a ps/2 mouse signal to a rs232 mouse signal using a PIC or Atmel chip..
For USB, there are a few, too.

https://www.versalent.biz/usbm232.htm
https://hackaday.com/2017/10/09/a-converter-y … o-serial-mouse/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=py9QuBnTWds
https://hackaday.io/project/27575-ps2-to-rs23 … mouse-converter

Personally, though, I'd rather use a 3D printed replica of a Genius Mouse (GM-6) once it exists.
Using a modern, deformed laser mouse on a 486 or below feels so akward. It's like using a flat screen on an IBM 5150.
It's nice for testing, but destroys the atmosphere. On long "sessions" I'd rather use a cheap boring beige ps/2 mouse from the early 2000s. The kind that usually lay around on fleamarkets on the ground of dirty plastic or cardboard boxes. Or something like that. 😉

Ball mice get clogged. You need to clean them, and they required a rubber mouse pad for friction. Optical mice don't. Primitive optical mice did exist back then but they required a special reflective mouse pad. I would like a serial mouse that uses modern optical mouse technology, for a much more easy-to-use experience, even if it destroys the "atmosphere".

And I would like the convenience of buying an already-made product, instead of having to build one on my own. The custom PCB with etched tracings alone would cost a lot of money (PCB factories do NOT make these at cheap prices for small quantities).

If you can point me to a company that makes this type of product in a mass produced way, with their target audience for their products being specifically vintage computer collectors, then please provide me with a link to that company's online store.

Update:
Ok. It looks like the Versalink page you linked to is a buyable product. Thanks for that.

Reply 4 of 17, by SquallStrife

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videogamer555 wrote on 2020-10-12, 21:08:

(PCB factories do NOT make these at cheap prices for small quantities).

You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach.

E7yHCUU.png

VogonsDrivers.com | Link | News Thread

Reply 5 of 17, by cyclone3d

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Isn't most everything going to be automated? They take your file and load it up in their system and churn out your board along with a bunch of other boards. For that matter, they could have a system that uses a huge sheet and loads up a bunch of different designs or a bunch of the same design and then do it all at once. They could even use "scrap" space for smaller boards when they have leftover space.

Yamaha modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG repository
YMF7x4 Guide
Aopen AW744L II SB-LINK

Reply 7 of 17, by videogamer555

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SquallStrife wrote on 2020-10-13, 03:13:
You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach. […]
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videogamer555 wrote on 2020-10-12, 21:08:

(PCB factories do NOT make these at cheap prices for small quantities).

You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach.

E7yHCUU.png

$7 is a "special price" it says. That's just to sucker you in to using their service. Most of these companies give you a good deal on your first order (like for the first few boards of your first order) but if you order more than a certain amount of boards in your first order, or later you place a second order, those additional boards of your first order (or all of or your entire second order, regardless of how many boards were in your first and second orders) will be a LOT more expensive, like $100 per board for even a 4inch by 4inch board. Of course if you buy in quantity (like you are an actual electronic product manufacturer) the price will be lower, but you need to like buy 1000 boards to even start to get a reasonable quantity-based discount. Like if you buy 1000 boards it will cost you only $90 per board instead of $100 per board, but of course the entire order will then cost you $90000!

There are NO services that I found in my research that cater to hobbyists with hobbyist prices, like $10 per board for ALL boards that you buy. For that, you will need to buy your own PCB etching kit.

Reply 8 of 17, by maxtherabbit

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what a hot load of BS, I've ordered dozens of times from JLCPCB and the special price is good everytime

just put in an order yesterday for 5 ps/2 interposer boards I designed and the total was $5.90 including the cheapest shipping

Reply 9 of 17, by Horun

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SquallStrife wrote on 2020-10-13, 03:13:
You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach. […]
Show full quote
videogamer555 wrote on 2020-10-12, 21:08:

(PCB factories do NOT make these at cheap prices for small quantities).

You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach.

E7yHCUU.png

🤣 thanks SquallStrife ! needed a good laugh ;p

Yeah me thinks videogamer55 has a not done his research plus why are you so worried about a dirty mouse ball... that is truly a vintage thing ! hahaa..

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 11 of 17, by Jo22

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they pre date quite a bit 😉

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 12 of 17, by wiretap

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videogamer555 wrote on 2022-02-13, 02:36:
SquallStrife wrote on 2020-10-13, 03:13:
You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach. […]
Show full quote
videogamer555 wrote on 2020-10-12, 21:08:

(PCB factories do NOT make these at cheap prices for small quantities).

You're right, $7 is pretty expensive for a production run of five 4-layer PCBs. Surely out of my reach.

E7yHCUU.png

$7 is a "special price" it says. That's just to sucker you in to using their service. Most of these companies give you a good deal on your first order (like for the first few boards of your first order) but if you order more than a certain amount of boards in your first order, or later you place a second order, those additional boards of your first order (or all of or your entire second order, regardless of how many boards were in your first and second orders) will be a LOT more expensive, like $100 per board for even a 4inch by 4inch board. Of course if you buy in quantity (like you are an actual electronic product manufacturer) the price will be lower, but you need to like buy 1000 boards to even start to get a reasonable quantity-based discount. Like if you buy 1000 boards it will cost you only $90 per board instead of $100 per board, but of course the entire order will then cost you $90000!

There are NO services that I found in my research that cater to hobbyists with hobbyist prices, like $10 per board for ALL boards that you buy. For that, you will need to buy your own PCB etching kit.

I order from JLCPCB once or twice a month. Their boards are always $2 for 5 for the small size 2 layer or $7 for 4 layer.. It isn't a "special", it is the normal price. 🤣

I've even ordered full size Amiga motherboards from there for around $10/each when they email out their yearly deep discount coupon.

Last few orders I made.. fyi, last one includes parts with assembly and a SMT assembly coupon code that they automatically put in your account once a month.

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They are the cheapest place to order from overall, for both PCB's and assembly service. PCBway and AllPCB are other sites that are decently priced, and on the US side Oshpark will do small runs for ok prices as well.

Ironically, here's the OpenLaserMouse PCB that I ordered last year. (ball to laser tank mouse conversion for Amiga)

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My Github
Circuit Board Repair Manuals

Reply 13 of 17, by Novack79

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It looks like this project might be worth following: https://retrohax.net/shop/amiga/mouster/

It is a USB-to-DB9 mouse and gamepad adapter. Currently it only supports Atari ST, Amiga, C64 and Spectrum. But one of their stated future plans is to support retro PCs with a DB9 serial port by the way of an add-on power adapter and a firmware upgrade.

I have two of these for my Amiga and will be placing an order for a couple more as soon as retro PC support is available.

Reply 14 of 17, by Jo22

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Looks interesting! Thanks for sharing!

Btw, it's DE9. When will these people ever learn? *sign*
(I don't mean you, but the seller/project creator.)

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 15 of 17, by SScorpio

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There's also this project: USB4VC: USB Inputs on Retro Computers!

Currently this is for IBM PC and Mac, but it's modular and support for other systems is planned. It uses a Rasp Pi with a hat, and then there is a separate protocol board. This supports keyboard, mouse (serial and PS/2), and game port.

dekuNukem is currently shipping out the Kickstarter orders. But the project is open source and on github.

Reply 16 of 17, by Retro486er

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Hi,

here is one possible solution to use USB or PS2 Mouse on Serial Port:
https://shop.emilum.com/Retro-PC-USB-or-PS2-M … t-Adapter-RS232

It's only in German, but this is working. You can use this with any USB Mouse with a USB to PS2 Adapter. I have two working in 486er Machines.

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Reply 17 of 17, by comolokooo

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videogamer555 wrote on 2020-10-12, 21:08:
Ball mice get clogged. You need to clean them, and they required a rubber mouse pad for friction. Optical mice don't. Primitive […]
Show full quote
Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-09, 08:24:
There are many projects about converting a ps/2 mouse signal to a rs232 mouse signal using a PIC or Atmel chip.. For USB, there […]
Show full quote

There are many projects about converting a ps/2 mouse signal to a rs232 mouse signal using a PIC or Atmel chip..
For USB, there are a few, too.

https://www.versalent.biz/usbm232.htm
https://hackaday.com/2017/10/09/a-converter-y … o-serial-mouse/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=py9QuBnTWds
https://hackaday.io/project/27575-ps2-to-rs23 … mouse-converter

Personally, though, I'd rather use a 3D printed replica of a Genius Mouse (GM-6) once it exists.
Using a modern, deformed laser mouse on a 486 or below feels so akward. It's like using a flat screen on an IBM 5150.
It's nice for testing, but destroys the atmosphere. On long "sessions" I'd rather use a cheap boring beige ps/2 mouse from the early 2000s. The kind that usually lay around on fleamarkets on the ground of dirty plastic or cardboard boxes. Or something like that. 😉

Ball mice get clogged. You need to clean them, and they required a rubber mouse pad for friction. Optical mice don't. Primitive optical mice did exist back then but they required a special reflective mouse pad. I would like a serial mouse that uses modern optical mouse technology, for a much more easy-to-use experience, even if it destroys the "atmosphere".

And I would like the convenience of buying an already-made product, instead of having to build one on my own. The custom PCB with etched tracings alone would cost a lot of money (PCB factories do NOT make these at cheap prices for small quantities).

If you can point me to a company that makes this type of product in a mass produced way, with their target audience for their products being specifically vintage computer collectors, then please provide me with a link to that company's online store.

Update:
Ok. It looks like the Versalink page you linked to is a buyable product. Thanks for that.

I think it is a very good idea that the mousepad is leather.