pentiumspeed wrote on 2020-10-25, 02:40:

Try running 120 at 133Mhz on 66 fsb. Should work.

Cheers,

83x1.5 works just as well if not a little better

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-25, 17:59:

devius wrote on 2020-10-25, 10:18:

Just to clarify, if it has an AGP slot then it’s a “super socket 7” motherboard, not “socket 7”. I think there is a small misunderstanding here between these two terms.

I always thought term super socket 7 was just used to differentiate it when a socket 7 motherboard could do 100Mhz bus speed and if I was going to use it with older pentium cpu that doesn't need higher bus speeds it could be considered same as just socket 7 motherboard. The motherboards were called by the actual socket that you put the cpu in and this one has just standard socket 7 socket. The importance to differentiate would come if I were to build a system that needs the 100Mhz fsb to tell others that I have a motherboard that supports those cpus. Same as if someone had called socket 370 motherboards that support tualatin cpus "super socket 370 motherboards."

Correct. And there are SS7 boards without AGP.. such as those with the ALI Aladdin 7 chipset.

One question remains unanswered. What is the max IDE hard drive size for this motherboard? It has award bios 4.51PG from 2000, so it seems that the bios has been updated at some point in the past. Any idea if the limit is 32GB or would it perhaps accept hard drives up to 127GB?

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-10-25, 19:06:

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-25, 17:59:

devius wrote on 2020-10-25, 10:18:

Just to clarify, if it has an AGP slot then it’s a “super socket 7” motherboard, not “socket 7”. I think there is a small misunderstanding here between these two terms.

I always thought term super socket 7 was just used to differentiate it when a socket 7 motherboard could do 100Mhz bus speed and if I was going to use it with older pentium cpu that doesn't need higher bus speeds it could be considered same as just socket 7 motherboard. The motherboards were called by the actual socket that you put the cpu in and this one has just standard socket 7 socket. The importance to differentiate would come if I were to build a system that needs the 100Mhz fsb to tell others that I have a motherboard that supports those cpus. Same as if someone had called socket 370 motherboards that support tualatin cpus "super socket 370 motherboards."

Correct. And there are SS7 boards without AGP.. such as those with the ALI Aladdin 7 chipset.

"Super" Socket 7 was a marketing term, not a technical one, so it meant whatever the marketeer in question wanted it to mean.

Originally it was touted as the 100MHz+AGP+SDRAM combination, then boards with MVP3 chipset that could run async with EDO while doing CPU at 100MHz (whyyyyy?) also were 'super', followed by boards that had SiS 5591 chipset that maxed out at 95MHz, also 'super', then integrated VGA on internal AGP port also qualified as 'super'...

Bottom line: technically all these boards are So7 boards, with a superset of whatever features one wants to call 'super'. If I'd had to define it myself, I'd stick to the socket, as bus speed, voltage or I/O options never previously - or subsequently -defined a socket platform. Only thing the SS7 did on the socket that was different was enabling BF2 for twice the multiplier options.

I do have a K6-III+ cpu somewhere and that made me wonder. Does anyone know how would K6-III+ cpu running at 133Mhz compare to a 133Mhz penium 1 cpu when it comes to performance?

Like it does not matter what kind of cpu is inside as long as performance is similar. I can still pretend it being a pentium PC.

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-26, 03:21:

I do have a K6-III+ cpu somewhere and that made me wonder. Does anyone know how would K6-III+ cpu running at 133Mhz compare to a 133Mhz penium 1 cpu when it comes to performance?

Like it does not matter what kind of cpu is inside as long as performance is similar. I can still pretend it being a pentium PC.

The k6 should be similar to a pentium pro at same clock IIRC. It should be faster than a plain pentium, but it would depend on workload.

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-26, 04:22:

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-26, 03:21:

I do have a K6-III+ cpu somewhere and that made me wonder. Does anyone know how would K6-III+ cpu running at 133Mhz compare to a 133Mhz penium 1 cpu when it comes to performance?

Like it does not matter what kind of cpu is inside as long as performance is similar. I can still pretend it being a pentium PC.

The k6 should be similar to a pentium pro at same clock IIRC. It should be faster than a plain pentium, but it would depend on workload.

Could you estimate how much faster average? Like would K6-III+ at 133Mhz be same as 166Mhz pentium? Would disabling motherboard cache make it equal to 133Mhz pentium for example?

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-26, 04:40:

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-26, 04:22:

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-26, 03:21:

I do have a K6-III+ cpu somewhere and that made me wonder. Does anyone know how would K6-III+ cpu running at 133Mhz compare to a 133Mhz penium 1 cpu when it comes to performance?

Like it does not matter what kind of cpu is inside as long as performance is similar. I can still pretend it being a pentium PC.

The k6 should be similar to a pentium pro at same clock IIRC. It should be faster than a plain pentium, but it would depend on workload.

Could you estimate how much faster average? Like would K6-III+ at 133Mhz be same as 166Mhz pentium? Would disabling motherboard cache make it equal to 133Mhz pentium for example?

For optimized workloads that took advantage of deeper pipelineals and extensions like mmx it could be much faster. But it really depends, the only way to know for sure would be to test the specific game in question.

dionb wrote on 2020-10-26, 01:12:

"Super" Socket 7 was a marketing term, not a technical one, so it meant whatever the marketeer in question wanted it to mean.

It wasn't a marketing term per se, and that's what Intel would want to make you believe.

AMD didn't have a new socket design at the time to compete with Intel's new Pentium II, and Intel didn't make 100 MHz BUS for Socket 7. AMD gained legal rights to Socket 7 after the Pentium II launch, and dubbed the socket 'Super Socket 7' for their K6-2+/3/3+ products. That designation is the proper technical term for any motherboard that supports those processors. People just tend to sway others away from it after the damage that was done by VIA. ALi based chipsets were actually quite stable for the time.

Dmetsys wrote on 2020-10-26, 04:56:

dionb wrote on 2020-10-26, 01:12:

"Super" Socket 7 was a marketing term, not a technical one, so it meant whatever the marketeer in question wanted it to mean.

It wasn't a marketing term per se, and that's what Intel would want to make you believe.

AMD didn't have a new socket design at the time to compete with Intel's new Pentium II, and Intel didn't make 100 MHz BUS for Socket 7. AMD gained legal rights to Socket 7 after the Pentium II launch, and dubbed the socket 'Super Socket 7' for their K6-2+/3/3+ products. That designation is the proper technical term for any motherboard that supports those processors. People just tend to sway others away from it after the damage that was done by VIA. ALi based chipsets were actually quite stable for the time.

It is probably unlikely the games I am planning to play to take advantage of mmx features since I am looking at late dos games and early 3dfx games in win9x because I am planning to use a voodoo 1 card with it.

Dmetsys wrote on 2020-10-26, 04:56:

dionb wrote on 2020-10-26, 01:12:

"Super" Socket 7 was a marketing term, not a technical one, so it meant whatever the marketeer in question wanted it to mean.

It wasn't a marketing term per se, and that's what Intel would want to make you believe.

AMD didn't have a new socket design at the time to compete with Intel's new Pentium II, and Intel didn't make 100 MHz BUS for Socket 7. AMD gained legal rights to Socket 7 after the Pentium II launch, and dubbed the socket 'Super Socket 7' for their K6-2+/3/3+ products. That designation is the proper technical term for any motherboard that supports those processors. People just tend to sway others away from it after the damage that was done by VIA. ALi based chipsets were actually quite stable for the time.

I believe AMD had legal rights to Socket 7 long before Intel launched the Pentium II. Otherwise as far as I understand they would not have been allowed to sell processors using the bus protocol.
AMD then created a 100MHz bus specification for their upcoming K6-2 100MHz FSB processors in 1998, dubbing the platform "Super7" and registering for a trademark. (source)
In their technical documentation neither ALi nor VIA nor SIS referred to their 100MHz FSB S7 chipsets as "Super Socket 7" afaik. VIA describes their VT82C598AT north bridge as "Single-Chip Socket-7 / Super-7 North Bridge". (source) SIS sometimes referred to their integrated AGP solution as "Super AGP VGA". (source) In their chipset documentation they all refer to the supported processors as "Socket 7" processors. (see the aforementioned documents & ALi M1541 documentation)
AMD keeps avoiding the term "Super Socket 7" with the launch of their K6-III processors, describing them as follows: "The AMD-K6-III processor is Super7 and Socket 7-compatible. The Super7 platform is an extension to the popular and robust Socket 7 platform. See “Super7™ Platform Initiative” for more information." (source) Accordingly in this Article Anand Lal Shimpi refers to the "Super7/K6-2 platform" in context of the upcoming AMD K6-III.

However some motherboard manufacturers, system integrators and vendors have adopted the term "Super Socket 7" in their marketing. For example Asus did so on their P5A retail box while the manual uses either "Super7" or "Socket 7" but never "Super Socket 7". As another example DFI/ITOX lists "Pentium MMX and Super Socket 7 processors" as supported in their marketing. (source) Media reports also sometimes used the term "Super Socket 7" in their publications. (i.e. CNN reporting on the Athlon)

This admittedly quickly gathered evidence leads me to believe that "Super Socket 7" was indeed a slang/marketing term and not a technical term.
Feel free to comment if you have any findings that would disagree with this quick and dirty evaluation. 😎👍

Edit: Added quote from K6-III documentation.

You won't get a K6-III+ or most other K6-2 or higher chips to run at 133 because the 2x multiplier is a 6x multiplier.

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-10-26, 17:43:

You won't get a K6-III+ or most other K6-2 or higher chips to run at 133 because the 2x multiplier is a 6x multiplier.

I was just testing that.
Are you sure about that? "Setmul 2.0" dropped speedsys cpu score from 457 to 152.
I think you are right when it comes to motherboard dip switches at least. 1.5x became 233Mhz and 2x became 400Mhz

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-26, 03:21:

Does anyone know how would K6-III+ cpu running at 133Mhz compare to a 133Mhz penium 1 cpu when it comes to performance?

Yes. Check here: The Ultimate 686 Benchmark Comparison

Thanks for the link. There is lots of good information there.
Bios auto hdd detection seems to recognize 120GB hard drive and set the size correctly. Is it safe to use it? I was sure the limit would be 32GB based on things I read online.

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-26, 18:20:

I was just testing that. Are you sure about that? "Setmul 2.0" dropped speedsys cpu score from 457 to 152. I think you are right […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-10-26, 17:43:

You won't get a K6-III+ or most other K6-2 or higher chips to run at 133 because the 2x multiplier is a 6x multiplier.

I was just testing that.
Are you sure about that? "Setmul 2.0" dropped speedsys cpu score from 457 to 152.
I think you are right when it comes to motherboard dip switches at least. 1.5x became 233Mhz and 2x became 400Mhz

Oh, yeah. I hadn't thought of using setmul.

Might anyone have a suggestion of what main video card to use with voodoo 1 card in this kind of system? I can kind of understand that the image quality and compatibility are the main points needed and havin another 3d card as main video card might not bring much to system like this. Matrox would be probably be best image quality wise but unfortunately all my Matrox cards are agp and someone mentioned earlier in the thread that I should not use an agp card.
The amount of pci video cards is bit limited. I have these at least:

Lots of S3 pci cards. S3 vision, Trio64, Diamond Stealth 64 and Virge/GX.
ATI rage II+ card.
I also have a voodoo 3 pci and a voodoo 3 agp card but using one of them would be kind of redundant with main purpose comes from the compatibility with early 3dfx games that comes from having voodoo 1 card in the system.
I also have 2 nvidia cards. Diamond Viper V330 4MB card and a TNT2M64 pci card.

I am probably going to install win98se there because that would allow me to take advantage of 2 USB ports in the pack of the soyo motherboard for transferring files to the system.

Virge GX.

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-27, 03:51:

Virge GX.

I did read some reviews online about virge cards from the time and they all say that they are bad basically.

Baoran wrote on 2020-10-27, 04:58:

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-27, 03:51:

Virge GX.

I did read some reviews online about virge cards from the time and they all say that they are bad basically.

Ignore them, they are the best all round cards, at least the dx/gx are. There is an issue with brightness but s3bright can fix that.