VOGONS


Reply 20 of 36, by computerguy08

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made a Vogonswiki page here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _A_motherboards

the_ultra_code wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:41:

😓 Work for another day. For now, I'll just list those that have a 12V connector, and maybe later, if free-time permits, I'll make a VOGONS wiki post like that.

Sorry, I got impatient 😁

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Reply 21 of 36, by Tetrium

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the_ultra_code wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:41:
Tetrium wrote on 2020-11-18, 17:58:

Yes. This way you'll also have an easy way to check which boards you've verified previously regardless of whether or not these have the P4 connector.
See this page for an example https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … 70_motherboards in which specific features of all the boards in the table are listed like AGP and the presence of ISA slots.

😓 Work for another day. For now, I'll just list those that have a 12V connector, and maybe later, if free-time permits, I'll make a VOGONS wiki post like that.

Just make 2 lists 😜 . One with boards that have the 12v connector and a second list of boards that don't have them, but focus on the list of boards that do have them.

Every list will have to start somewhere, but it can be quite an undertaking to get a list that is at least largely complete.

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Reply 22 of 36, by Tetrium

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computerguy08 wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:44:

made a Vogonswiki page here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _A_motherboards

the_ultra_code wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:41:

😓 Work for another day. For now, I'll just list those that have a 12V connector, and maybe later, if free-time permits, I'll make a VOGONS wiki post like that.

Sorry, I got impatient 😁

Nice! 😁

EDIT: Modified this page https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Hardware_guides so the new Socket A page can be accessed starting from the wiki main page.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 23 of 36, by the_ultra_code

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computerguy08 wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:44:

made a Vogonswiki page here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _A_motherboards

the_ultra_code wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:41:

😓 Work for another day. For now, I'll just list those that have a 12V connector, and maybe later, if free-time permits, I'll make a VOGONS wiki post like that.

Sorry, I got impatient 😁

Tetrium wrote on 2020-11-18, 22:47:

Nice! 😁

EDIT: Modified this page https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Hardware_guides so the new Socket A page can be accessed starting from the wiki main page.

Awesome!

Yeah, I've never made a wiki page before, so... yeah. 😁

I'll add the link to the wiki computerguy08 made to my OP, and below that list all of the motherboards not already inputted into the wiki (some mentioned by some members already I didn't put in the OP list). I guess I can learn how to add to the wiki, but not tonight. If either of you or anyone else wishes to add those boards I list, that'd be awesome.

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Reply 24 of 36, by God Of Gaming

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Does having the ATX12V P4 connector guarantee a motherboard will not be pulling lots on 5V and requiring an old PSU? Are there any boards that have the ATX12V connector but still pull big currents on 5V anyways?

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Reply 25 of 36, by Tetrium

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God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-19, 08:56:

Does having the ATX12V P4 connector guarantee a motherboard will not be pulling lots on 5V and requiring an old PSU? Are there any boards that have the ATX12V connector but still pull big currents on 5V anyways?

This is a distinct possibility.
I only vaguely remember something along the lines of that VIA chipsets would use mostly 5v regardless of this connector, but NForce would use mostly 12v. But I haven't an idea whether this is true or not. I do know that this was from someone else typing about it, so not the most reliable source I'd say.

But I reckon that if this is the case with any particular board, it should be mentioned in its manual.

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Reply 26 of 36, by Tzk

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God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-18, 07:44:

I can just say that my Asus A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 (nforce2 ultra 400) does not have the atx12v connector, so that one is quite likely 5v-centric. I use an old Enermax PSU with strong 5V rail

Greetings, new user here. I happen to overclock that exact board and can provide more info. You are indeed right that the A7N8X feeds the cpus VRM off the 5V rail. That includes the following boards, which are all (more or less) the same:

5V Cpu VRM:
A7N8X v1.x
A7N8X Deluxe v1.x
A7N8X v2.0
A7N8X Deluxe v2.0
A7N8X-E Deluxe
A7N8X-X

Not sure as it's a different board layout:
A7N8X-XE (and it's clone AsRock K7NF2-RAID)

However it is possible to mod the A7N8X to use the 12V rail. Here's how:
1. Remove the cpu vrm coil (located slightly above the AGP slot)
2. solder a thick wire from either an external connector or the 20pin socket to the VRM side of the coil, effectively feeding 12V into the cpu vrm
3. unsolder the three big capacitors right next to it (3x 6.3V 3300uF)
4. replace those capacitors with for example two Panasonic FR 16V 3300uF

Done. The board now feeds the cpu off 12V. I've done this to two boards and both work perfectly fine. Here are two photos of my modded board:

Capture.JPG
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Capture2.JPG
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Reply 27 of 36, by the_ultra_code

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Tzk wrote on 2020-11-20, 15:43:
Greetings, new user here. I happen to overclock that exact board and can provide more info. You are indeed right that the A7N8X […]
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God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-18, 07:44:

I can just say that my Asus A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 (nforce2 ultra 400) does not have the atx12v connector, so that one is quite likely 5v-centric. I use an old Enermax PSU with strong 5V rail

Greetings, new user here. I happen to overclock that exact board and can provide more info. You are indeed right that the A7N8X feeds the cpus VRM off the 5V rail. That includes the following boards, which are all (more or less) the same:

5V Cpu VRM:
A7N8X v1.x
A7N8X Deluxe v1.x
A7N8X v2.0
A7N8X Deluxe v2.0
A7N8X-E Deluxe
A7N8X-X

Not sure as it's a different board layout:
A7N8X-XE (and it's clone AsRock K7NF2-RAID)

However it is possible to mod the A7N8X to use the 12V rail. Here's how:
1. Remove the cpu vrm coil (located slightly above the AGP slot)
2. solder a thick wire from either an external connector or the 20pin socket to the VRM side of the coil, effectively feeding 12V into the cpu vrm
3. unsolder the three big capacitors right next to it (3x 6.3V 3300uF)
4. replace those capacitors with for example two Panasonic FR 16V 3300uF

Done. The board now feeds the cpu off 12V. I've done this to two boards and both work perfectly fine.

Amazing... -ly daunting.

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Reply 28 of 36, by bZbZbZ

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God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-19, 08:56:

Does having the ATX12V P4 connector guarantee a motherboard will not be pulling lots on 5V and requiring an old PSU? Are there any boards that have the ATX12V connector but still pull big currents on 5V anyways?

I don't think there's any 'guarantee' for anything, the only sure way is to test the board... however I think it should be pretty close to a sure thing. I imagine the engineers who designed the motherboard would only include the cost of implementing the ATX12V connector if they intended to use it. If you were responsible for minimizing the cost of a motherboard design, and the 20-pin ATX connector was sufficient to power everything on the board (where the single 12V pin on that connector likely can't safely handle the current required to power the CPU), you'd omit the ATX12V connector.

Another thing you can do is visually examine the area near the ATX12V connector and see if you can identify VRM components (capacitors, MOSFETs, chokes, etc) that are positioned vaguely between the ATX12V connector and the CPU socket. This would suggest that most likely the motherboard has been designed to feed the CPU from the ATX 12Vconnector. Generally I expect the CPU to be the dominant power load for the motherboard... the other loads (chipset, memory, PCI/AGP slots) would be minimal in comparison.

Reply 29 of 36, by bZbZbZ

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Tzk wrote on 2020-11-20, 15:43:
Greetings, new user here... it is possible to mod the A7N8X to use the 12V rail. Here's how: 1. Remove the cpu vrm coil (located […]
Show full quote
God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-18, 07:44:

I can just say that my Asus A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 (nforce2 ultra 400) does not have the atx12v connector, so that one is quite likely 5v-centric. I use an old Enermax PSU with strong 5V rail

Greetings, new user here... it is possible to mod the A7N8X to use the 12V rail. Here's how:
1. Remove the cpu vrm coil (located slightly above the AGP slot)
2. solder a thick wire from either an external connector or the 20pin socket to the VRM side of the coil, effectively feeding 12V into the cpu vrm
3. unsolder the three big capacitors right next to it (3x 6.3V 3300uF)
4. replace those capacitors with for example two Panasonic FR 16V 3300uF

Done. The board now feeds the cpu off 12V. I've done this to two boards and both work perfectly fine. Here are two photos of my modded board:

Capture.JPG
Capture2.JPG

WOW, you are brave to perform this mod!

I believe you have significantly increased the current load through the single 12V pin on the 20-pin ATX connector (as well as the single 12V wire connecting the power supply to that connector), are now pulling more current through that wire than the original design intent. Does the ATX connector on the motherboard near this 12V pin get... warm?

Reply 30 of 36, by frudi

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bZbZbZ wrote on 2020-11-20, 17:49:

Another thing you can do is visually examine the area near the ATX12V connector and see if you can identify VRM components (capacitors, MOSFETs, chokes, etc) that are positioned vaguely between the ATX12V connector and the CPU socket. This would suggest that most likely the motherboard has been designed to feed the CPU from the ATX 12Vconnector. Generally I expect the CPU to be the dominant power load for the motherboard... the other loads (chipset, memory, PCI/AGP slots) would be minimal in comparison.

In particular, it's probably easiest to check the specs of any large capacitors near the power connectors, especially near the 4-pin auxiliary 12V. If there is a group of at least 2 or 3 large (typically around 1500 uF) 16 V capacitors near it, then you're looking at the input filter of a 12 V input VRM. A 5 V input VRM will almost always use 6.3 V capacitors for the same role, sometimes 10 V. Mind you, both will still use a bunch of even larger (couple 1000 uF) 6.3 V capacitors on the output side, so don't just look for 6.3 V or 10 V capacitors, but specifically for any 16 V ones.

Reply 31 of 36, by Tetrium

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bZbZbZ wrote on 2020-11-20, 18:01:
Tzk wrote on 2020-11-20, 15:43:
Greetings, new user here... it is possible to mod the A7N8X to use the 12V rail. Here's how: 1. Remove the cpu vrm coil (located […]
Show full quote
God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-18, 07:44:

I can just say that my Asus A7N8X Deluxe v2.0 (nforce2 ultra 400) does not have the atx12v connector, so that one is quite likely 5v-centric. I use an old Enermax PSU with strong 5V rail

Greetings, new user here... it is possible to mod the A7N8X to use the 12V rail. Here's how:
1. Remove the cpu vrm coil (located slightly above the AGP slot)
2. solder a thick wire from either an external connector or the 20pin socket to the VRM side of the coil, effectively feeding 12V into the cpu vrm
3. unsolder the three big capacitors right next to it (3x 6.3V 3300uF)
4. replace those capacitors with for example two Panasonic FR 16V 3300uF

Done. The board now feeds the cpu off 12V. I've done this to two boards and both work perfectly fine. Here are two photos of my modded board:

Capture.JPG
Capture2.JPG

WOW, you are brave to perform this mod!

I believe you have significantly increased the current load through the single 12V pin on the 20-pin ATX connector (as well as the single 12V wire connecting the power supply to that connector), are now pulling more current through that wire than the original design intent. Does the ATX connector on the motherboard near this 12V pin get... warm?

Perhaps better to use the P4 connector of the PSU to feed the extra 12v to the CPU to somewhat relieve the 12v PSU connector one? Not sure if that can be done.
But this is a very interesting hack nontheless!

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 32 of 36, by Tzk

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I‘ve never checked if the atx connector gets warm. However the board handles 260mhz fsb and a 2.7ghz barton just fine on aircooling. Asus decided to feed basically everything from the 5v rail, chipset, ram and cpu. So after the mod the only things running on 12v are the cpu, the fans and the agp port (1A max). However using a separate connector (4/6/8 pins) is probably a good idea. I just had no spare connector and no dead board to salvage it from.

Regarding the cpu vrm (and to avoid derailing the thread further...), i found that analysing the caps next to the cpu mosfets is the easiest solution. Usually the setup is something like:
5v rail > coil > caps > mosfets > coil > caps > cpu

So you just need to identify the first set of caps and check their voltage. If their rated voltage is below 12v (mostly 10v or 6.3v) we‘re dealing with a 5V rail setup.

Reply 33 of 36, by God Of Gaming

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So you're saying the a7n8x is a good overclocker. Then my cpu must be a dud, my athlon xp 3000+ will not overclock at all, even just trying to raise the multiplier from 13.0 to 13.5 results in many software crashes

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Reply 34 of 36, by Tzk

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God Of Gaming wrote on 2020-11-21, 07:25:

So you're saying the a7n8x is a good overclocker. Then my cpu must be a dud, my athlon xp 3000+ will not overclock at all, even just trying to raise the multiplier from 13.0 to 13.5 results in many software crashes

By default the Asus is not a good clocker. I've made numerous mods to get that far. Also not every Asus will handle 250Mhz FSB or more and they're especially picky when it comes to different memory chips. My board has a Vdd mod for the northbridge, Vdimm mod, Vcore mod, the 12V rails mod, a special modded bios, several additional heatsinks and i'm using Winbond BH based memory sticks. I am also using a very good 2600+ mobile which handles 2.5ghz at only 1.65V. So don't expect that every board or cpu will overclock as good as my setup. In total i got 5 Asus boards, the worst doesn't handle 220Mhz stable while the 2nd best clocks to about 250MHz and the best will pass Superpi 32M at 263Mhz.

Tzk wrote on 2020-11-20, 15:43:

Not sure as it's a different board layout:
A7N8X-XE (and it's clone AsRock K7NF2-RAID)

Little correction of my previous post:

5V cpu rail:
A7N8X-XE (and it's clone AsRock K7NF2-RAID)

12V cpu rail:
Abit NF7(-s)
Abit AN7
DFI Infinity and Ultra A/B

Might be 12V:
Shuttle AN35N
MSI K7N2
Gigabyte GA-7N400

Reply 35 of 36, by auron

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so, since the 2000-2002 asus pentium 4 boards with dual auxillary power connectors haven't been discussed much: first, with the P4T, P4T-E etc. they had a setup with p4+6-pin aux connector:

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the manual isn't clear at all about this, do both connectors have to be used? does the board have part 5v and part 12v regulators, and if so, is one side enough to provide sufficient power to the processor? it would seem that the listed 20A requirement on the 5V rail becomes nonsense if the p4 connector is being used...

then, later with the P4B and similar boards, as the 6-pin aux connector was being phased out they switched it for a molex connector, ridiculously named "EZ Plug":

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so they gave the option to use molex for 1 extra 12V line in place of 2 on the P4 connector - works i suppose, but one has to wonder why such an obvious and upgrade friendly solution wasn't adopted by other motherboard makers (interestingly it seems to be claimed that this connector is even patented, at least in context with providing aux power for multi-GPU on later boards).

then on the AMD side, boards such as the A7N8X didn't have any aux connectors:

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so if this is a 5V heavy board it makes sense that they went without aux connectors given the 5 5V lines on ATX, but why even bother stating a seemingly unrelated 8A 12V requirement? or is this just to satisfy whatever ATX standard was current at the time?

Reply 36 of 36, by bZbZbZ

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In the case of the P4E-T, the page from the manual seems to indicate that the 6-pin auxiliary connector is not required. It says "AUXPWR (Optional)". On this board, the 4-pin ATX12V connector is mandatory.

For the P4B, I believe that motherboard is optimized for newer power supplies (power supplies meeting the "ATX 12V" standard) but may still work with certain eligible older power supplies (ATX power supplies which lack the 4-pin ATX12V connector). The older power supply will be acceptable if both conditions are satisfied:
1) the power supply provides sufficient current on the 12V rail... minimum 8A but maybe more depending on CPU choice
2) the user connects a molex lead to the motherboard's aux / ezplug connector, in lieu of the 4-pin ATX12V connector. I expect the motherboard will draw power through the molex's 12V pin (yellow) in the absence of power being delivered through the two 12V pins on the 4-pin connector. There would've been an extra cost for the motherboard manufacturer to allow the 12V power to be delivered from two possible sources, hence most motherboards did not provide the molex option.

For the A7N8X (Socket A), I expect that this is a 5V heavy board. There is no 4-pin ATX12V connector, nor any alternative connector for supplementing the single 12V pin on the 20-pin ATX power connector. My guess is that this board was released during the time period where the Pentium 4 was commonplace and thus most new power supplies were adhering to the ATX 12V standard. It's also possible that Asus was using the same boilerplate text for instruction manuals throughout their product stack, and thus user's power supply was simply assumed to be an "ATX 12V power supply" regardless of whether an older unit would work on the A7N8X. I interpret the note at the bottom of your screenshot to be a helpful suggestion to the user, where the recommendation primarily notes the general trend of future computing requirements, and not necessarily requirements specific to the A7N8X product.