VOGONS


First post, by RetroLiz

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This is a Socket 7 board, so Super Socket 7 isn't available. I have a K6-2/400mhz currently. I saw a K6-3/500mhz on eBay that looks like it's compatible with both Socket 7 and SS7. Would this be a big enough boost to notice or nah? https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-K6-3-K6-2-500-MH … WUAAOSwBw5XRImE

Battlestation: IBM Aptiva Series E 500 (Model 2158)
Sony Trinitron Multiscan 100ES 15" CRT
AMD K-6/2 400mhz
SoundBlaster Live! CT4780
IBM 120GB HDD
256MB RAM
Windows 98 SE

Reply 1 of 15, by WJG6260

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A K6-III or K6-2+/3+ would definitely increase performance, as any of those CPUs have on-die L2 cache. In fact, the performance boost is quite appreciable, because most of the time this cache enables the avoidance of cacheable limits on motherboard chipsets.

That being said, I notice that the link you've provided is actually a K6-2+. That could certainly work, but the issue with the K6-2+ and K6-3+ is that they require 2.0 volts. You can run them at 2.1, and maybe 2.2 volts. At 2.2 volts, you're running some risks, but it can be done with proper cooling and a good CPU sample.

If you can run a CPU with 2.0 volts on your motherboard, the only appreciable differences between a K6-2+ and K6-3+, as well as a K6-III are as follows:

  • The K6-2+ has 128kb of L2 cache, but otherwise shares the same core as the K6-3+
  • Like the K6-III, the K6-3+ has 256kb of L2 cache
  • K6-IIIs run at 2.2v, and don't overclock too well
  • K6-2+s and K6-3+s overclock fantastically, and can even be overclocked/underclocked by software

The only other thing to make sure is that, if you go with the "+" CPU, your BIOS is compatible. Usually that's not too big of an issue, but it can be if you're using an OEM motherboard.

Anyway, I hope that this helps!

Reply 2 of 15, by Repo Man11

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It looks as though this is your motherboard: https://mbmanuals.retropc.se/manuals/424/V72ma-eng.pdf

According to that manual, you can set it for 5.5x100 and 2.2 volts. Those setting would likely get that K6-2+ 500 to run @ 550. An additional 150 MHz, plus 128k full speed level 2 cache would be a noticeable boost in overall speed. But there's still the question of BIOS support. Some boards that will run a K6-2 will not even POST with a K6-2+, so unless you can find out otherwise, that's always a risk.

Reply 3 of 15, by RetroLiz

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WJG6260 wrote on 2021-02-16, 19:19:

The only other thing to make sure is that, if you go with the "+" CPU, your BIOS is compatible. Usually that's not too big of an issue, but it can be if you're using an OEM motherboard.

Thanks! That's really helpful. Is there any way to determine if a BIOS can use the + chips?

Battlestation: IBM Aptiva Series E 500 (Model 2158)
Sony Trinitron Multiscan 100ES 15" CRT
AMD K-6/2 400mhz
SoundBlaster Live! CT4780
IBM 120GB HDD
256MB RAM
Windows 98 SE

Reply 4 of 15, by Repo Man11

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RetroLiz wrote on 2021-02-16, 20:04:
WJG6260 wrote on 2021-02-16, 19:19:

The only other thing to make sure is that, if you go with the "+" CPU, your BIOS is compatible. Usually that's not too big of an issue, but it can be if you're using an OEM motherboard.

Thanks! That's really helpful. Is there any way to determine if a BIOS can use the + chips?

Without a testimonial from someone else who has that board and has tried a K6-+ CPU, you're left in the position of trying it yourself. Since there's always the possibility that it won't work, I'd shop carefully. In Oct. of 2019, I purchased a K6-2+ 533 for just under $13.00 shipped. Low cost takes the sting out of the disappointment of something not working, and such deals can still be found with patience.

Reply 5 of 15, by Namrok

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http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/J.Steunebrink/k6plus.htm

That website has a huge lists of mobos, their support levels, which bios versions you need, and even some modified bios versions to add K6+ support.

This site I've found a bit less helpful, but it does list even more motherboards.

http://k6plus.com/compatlist/

If your board is the Acer V72MA listed above, support does not seem promising. If you are adventurous, you could try it anyways. But if it were me, I'd save my money.

Reply 6 of 15, by WJG6260

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RetroLiz wrote on 2021-02-16, 20:04:

Thanks! That's really helpful. Is there any way to determine if a BIOS can use the + chips?

You're quite welcome! To echo what Repo Man11 said, it's usually quite difficult to determine for OEM machines. If it's an Ali Aladdin V or Via MVP3 system, or even an SIS530 system, it's much more likely than not that the requisite 2.1v or 2.0v jumper exists and your odds are better. But as far as BIOS compatibility, truthfully, like Repo Man11 said, it's tough to determine without having seen someone try to run one of the + chips or without just going for it and trying.

I did find reference to someone running one of these motherboards with a K6-2 at 500mhz. Here's a link for your convenience: http://www.motherboards.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12943

I can't seem to find much anything on a K6-III/2+/3+, unfortunately.

Reply 7 of 15, by WJG6260

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Sorry to drop in and doubly-reply, but I couldn't help but keep looking for some answers, out of sheer curiosity.

I just did a quick dig and found this: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/help-me- … rboard.377427/.

Apparently, there's a BIOS out there somewhere for the V72MA that enables K6-III support. I'm not sure about K6-2+s/K6-3+s, though.

That being said, after a little more scrounging I found this:https://www.infania.net/misc/moboarchive/Acer … BIOS/index.html

I can't be certain that's the right BIOS, but it seems to be the BIOS for the Acer version of this machine, which used the same board. If you haven't flashed a BIOS before, or aren't particularly comfortable doing so, I wouldn't say that this is necessarily worth it. What would perhaps be worth it-if you're okay taking a little risk-is seeing if your PC will run stably with a mild overclock at 500mhz. That might get you a bit more performance. Worst comes to worst, a K6-2 500mhz shouldn't be too hard to find, and that would definitely run just fine at 500mhz and net you some more performance.

Reply 8 of 15, by dionb

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Could you confirm your motherboard? As we're just going by something in your sig with the assumption of V72MA - and I'm not so sure. You posted that your board is So7, not SS7. The V72MA is clearly SS7, with an AGP chipset, 100MHz bus and SDRAM support. So if your board isn't, you probably have something else, which means the situation with voltage, BIOS etc could be very different...

If you can't ID it yourself, post a good pic here so we can try.

Reply 9 of 15, by RetroLiz

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dionb wrote on 2021-02-16, 22:13:

Could you confirm your motherboard? As we're just going by something in your sig with the assumption of V72MA - and I'm not so sure. You posted that your board is So7, not SS7. The V72MA is clearly SS7, with an AGP chipset, 100MHz bus and SDRAM support. So if your board isn't, you probably have something else, which means the situation with voltage, BIOS etc could be very different...

If you can't ID it yourself, post a good pic here so we can try.

I really appreciate everyone's help!

The chip on the board is labeled as "Ali M1542" so I believe it's an Acer Aladdin V: https://pcrebuilding.altervista.org/9/downloa … tasheet_120.pdf

Battlestation: IBM Aptiva Series E 500 (Model 2158)
Sony Trinitron Multiscan 100ES 15" CRT
AMD K-6/2 400mhz
SoundBlaster Live! CT4780
IBM 120GB HDD
256MB RAM
Windows 98 SE

Reply 10 of 15, by Tetrium

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RetroLiz wrote on 2021-02-17, 04:12:
dionb wrote on 2021-02-16, 22:13:

Could you confirm your motherboard? As we're just going by something in your sig with the assumption of V72MA - and I'm not so sure. You posted that your board is So7, not SS7. The V72MA is clearly SS7, with an AGP chipset, 100MHz bus and SDRAM support. So if your board isn't, you probably have something else, which means the situation with voltage, BIOS etc could be very different...

If you can't ID it yourself, post a good pic here so we can try.

I really appreciate everyone's help!

The chip on the board is labeled as "Ali M1542" so I believe it's an Acer Aladdin V: https://pcrebuilding.altervista.org/9/downloa … tasheet_120.pdf

That is a ss7. Grats, this will make things quite a lot simpler 😀

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 11 of 15, by dionb

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RetroLiz wrote on 2021-02-17, 04:12:
dionb wrote on 2021-02-16, 22:13:

Could you confirm your motherboard? As we're just going by something in your sig with the assumption of V72MA - and I'm not so sure. You posted that your board is So7, not SS7. The V72MA is clearly SS7, with an AGP chipset, 100MHz bus and SDRAM support. So if your board isn't, you probably have something else, which means the situation with voltage, BIOS etc could be very different...

If you can't ID it yourself, post a good pic here so we can try.

I really appreciate everyone's help!

The chip on the board is labeled as "Ali M1542" so I believe it's an Acer Aladdin V: https://pcrebuilding.altervista.org/9/downloa … tasheet_120.pdf

Yep, that's an Aladdin V, which is the chipset on the Acer V72MA, so looks like the advice on capabilities and options are correct (and for future reference: yes, this is a Super Socket 7 board/system).

One easy final confirmation step: the V72MA has an onboard ATi Rage Pro chip, just next to the M1542 northbridge. If that Rage Pro is there - and there is no AGP slot on the motherboard - we can be 99.9% sure that this is a V72MA.

Reply 12 of 15, by RetroLiz

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dionb wrote on 2021-02-17, 11:29:

One easy final confirmation step: the V72MA has an onboard ATi Rage Pro chip, just next to the M1542 northbridge. If that Rage Pro is there - and there is no AGP slot on the motherboard - we can be 99.9% sure that this is a V72MA.

Sure enough, there's an ATI Rage Pro chip next to the M1542. Does that bode well for the K2+ or should I just go with a K2 533mhz?

Battlestation: IBM Aptiva Series E 500 (Model 2158)
Sony Trinitron Multiscan 100ES 15" CRT
AMD K-6/2 400mhz
SoundBlaster Live! CT4780
IBM 120GB HDD
256MB RAM
Windows 98 SE

Reply 13 of 15, by Tetrium

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RetroLiz wrote on 2021-02-17, 13:04:
dionb wrote on 2021-02-17, 11:29:

One easy final confirmation step: the V72MA has an onboard ATi Rage Pro chip, just next to the M1542 northbridge. If that Rage Pro is there - and there is no AGP slot on the motherboard - we can be 99.9% sure that this is a V72MA.

Sure enough, there's an ATI Rage Pro chip next to the M1542. Does that bode well for the K2+ or should I just go with a K2 533mhz?

Without looking up any additional info about this particular board, one can say that it does bode well for compatibility of this particular board with the k6+ chips (these being the K6-2+ and the K6-III+ and excluding the ordinary K6-2 and K6-III).

The K6-2 does not have any L2 cache where the K6-2+ has 128kb and the K6-III and K6-III+ have 256kb. The K6-2 and K6-III should have better compatibility out of the box though due to them being the 'ordinary' desktop chips.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 14 of 15, by RetroLiz

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Tetrium wrote on 2021-02-17, 13:33:
RetroLiz wrote on 2021-02-17, 13:04:
dionb wrote on 2021-02-17, 11:29:

One easy final confirmation step: the V72MA has an onboard ATi Rage Pro chip, just next to the M1542 northbridge. If that Rage Pro is there - and there is no AGP slot on the motherboard - we can be 99.9% sure that this is a V72MA.

Sure enough, there's an ATI Rage Pro chip next to the M1542. Does that bode well for the K2+ or should I just go with a K2 533mhz?

Without looking up any additional info about this particular board, one can say that it does bode well for compatibility of this particular board with the k6+ chips (these being the K6-2+ and the K6-III+ and excluding the ordinary K6-2 and K6-III).

The K6-2 does not have any L2 cache where the K6-2+ has 128kb and the K6-III and K6-III+ have 256kb. The K6-2 and K6-III should have better compatibility out of the box though due to them being the 'ordinary' desktop chips.

Thanks! I think I'll grab that K2+ chip I linked earlier and try it out. I mean, worst case scenario I'm only out $40. Not really a huge loss.

Battlestation: IBM Aptiva Series E 500 (Model 2158)
Sony Trinitron Multiscan 100ES 15" CRT
AMD K-6/2 400mhz
SoundBlaster Live! CT4780
IBM 120GB HDD
256MB RAM
Windows 98 SE

Reply 15 of 15, by RetroLiz

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Hi all: just wanted to make a quick post for those who have the same or similar model PC.

I've done some research this weekend and it seems that the IBM Aptivas are fairly finicky as to what PCI graphics cards they will accept. There are lots of stories online of people with Aptivas trying various cards and still experiencing the symptoms I talk about in this thread. It looks like a lot of people just give up on the graphics card and use the onboard ATI Rage. I'm still going to keep messing around with it though just in case I figure something out.

Battlestation: IBM Aptiva Series E 500 (Model 2158)
Sony Trinitron Multiscan 100ES 15" CRT
AMD K-6/2 400mhz
SoundBlaster Live! CT4780
IBM 120GB HDD
256MB RAM
Windows 98 SE