VOGONS


Intel 440BX and Pentium III 1.1 Ghz

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First post, by MB17

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Hello everyone,
I'm currently working on a 2000 year build and have a pentium III 1 Ghz 133 FSB on Slot 1 now. My board is Chaintech CT-6BSA on 440BX chipset, so it only supports up to 100Mhz FSB. I did some tests and running this cpu at 133 Mhz causes Prime95 to crash, so i changed to 124 Mhz FSB and everything is fine, speed is 930 Mhz (124 x 7.5) My question is: I consider changing this cpu to pentium 3 1.1 Ghz on Socket 370 via slotket. It runs on 100 Mhz FSB, so I could get that speed without overclock. Multiplier is 11x and in BIOS i can only change multiplier settings to max 8x. Is there any chance that processor will work with my mobo ? How multipliers work with 440BX ?
Regards

Reply 1 of 20, by waterbeesje

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If you get a Pentium 3 the multiplier is locked. The motherboard can't force any other multiplier than is set in the CPU part.
So your board may max out at 8x, but the CPU ignores this and will actually run at 11x as it is designed for.

If you lack CPU support in BIOS it may cry out some crazy things, but as you already run a coppermine any coppermine from the same age should work I guess.

For celeron I'm not sure with multipliers... Any other advise?

Little side note: I guess your board can't keep up with the 133fsb. My P3B-F runs a coppermine 933 at 1050 with a 150MHz fsb stable.
It does have a 1/4 divider for PCI (not all bx's have that), which makes PCI run at a semi-safe 37,5MHz. AGP on the other hand runs at 100MHz which is tricky on selecting an AGP graphics card (at a speed around "AGP 3x" if such existed)

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 3 of 20, by dionb

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Coppermine is not always exactly Coppermine. There were multiple steppings and from cA0 to cD0 and BIOS frequently needed to be upgraded to support newer steppings. Of course, it wasn't always a big issue if unsupported, but some boards refuse to boot or do other nasty things.

A Slot 1 P3-1000E (100MHz FSB) will be stepping cC0, So370 P3-1100E will be cD0, so this could be an issue. If the BIOS was updated after June 2000 it won't though. Or if it's older than cC0 (as if it works with that unsupported, it will most likely also work with cD0 unsupported). Looking around the most recent BIOS I can see (though not download without malware) is Dec 20th 1999, which is before the release of the cC0 stepping, so the current CPU is unsupported too and apparently works fine, so most likely the P3-1100E will also work.

Reply 4 of 20, by MB17

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I have Geforce3 Ti 500 from Leadtek, no problems with 133 FSB. So this cpu should work with no problems ? I also consider a celeron 1100 Mhz with 128kb L2 cache. Should i consider that ? What's a difference between Pentium 3 with 256 KB L2 cache vs Celeron with 128 KB L2 cache, will i see a difference in performance ?

Reply 6 of 20, by bofh.fromhell

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MB17 wrote on 2021-03-06, 14:08:

Hello everyone,
I'm currently working on a 2000 year build and have a pentium III 1 Ghz 133 FSB on Slot 1 now. My board is Chaintech CT-6BSA on 440BX chipset, so it only supports up to 100Mhz FSB. I did some tests and running this cpu at 133 Mhz causes Prime95 to crash, so i changed to 124 Mhz FSB and everything is fine, speed is 930 Mhz (124 x 7.5) My question is: I consider changing this cpu to pentium 3 1.1 Ghz on Socket 370 via slotket. It runs on 100 Mhz FSB, so I could get that speed without overclock. Multiplier is 11x and in BIOS i can only change multiplier settings to max 8x. Is there any chance that processor will work with my mobo ? How multipliers work with 440BX ?
Regards

My experience is that if a motherboard is Coppermine ready the P3-1.1GHz will work.
Got several different slotkets and many BX motherboards, any combo seems to work just fine.
Performs slightly better then a 933MHz (133 FSB) in games and slightly better then the 1.0GHz (133 FSB) when it comes to synthetic tests.

Only issue I've had is getting 2 of them working in my SOYO SY-D6IBA.

Reply 7 of 20, by frudi

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MB17 wrote on 2021-03-06, 15:44:

I also consider a celeron 1100 Mhz with 128kb L2 cache. Should i consider that ? What's a difference between Pentium 3 with 256 KB L2 cache vs Celeron with 128 KB L2 cache, will i see a difference in performance ?

1.1 GHz Celeron would at best be about the same performance as your current Pentium 3 at 7.5 x 124 MHz, likely actually slower.

Reply 8 of 20, by Tetrium

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MB17 wrote on 2021-03-06, 14:08:

Hello everyone,
I'm currently working on a 2000 year build and have a pentium III 1 Ghz 133 FSB on Slot 1 now. My board is Chaintech CT-6BSA on 440BX chipset, so it only supports up to 100Mhz FSB. I did some tests and running this cpu at 133 Mhz causes Prime95 to crash, so i changed to 124 Mhz FSB and everything is fine, speed is 930 Mhz (124 x 7.5) My question is: I consider changing this cpu to pentium 3 1.1 Ghz on Socket 370 via slotket. It runs on 100 Mhz FSB, so I could get that speed without overclock. Multiplier is 11x and in BIOS i can only change multiplier settings to max 8x. Is there any chance that processor will work with my mobo ? How multipliers work with 440BX ?
Regards

To add to what's already been said about the multipliers, I'd like to add that CPU multipliers of virtually all Celerons and all Coppermines are locked (except for some ES chips). So you can change the multiplier on your board but the CPU will still keep at its original multiplier regardless of what you set the CPU multiplier to.

Regarding the s370 Celeron performance, as a generic rule of thumb you could view a s370 Celeron as very roughly 80% the performance of a Pentium 3. So a 1GHz Celeron (100x10) would be sorta like how a Pentium 3 800MHz would perform. Perhaps somewhat faster or even more slow depending on what you run on it.
Mendocinos perform considerably less worse compared to their more high-end peers though, often even matching the performance of the Pentium 2 and Pentium 3 chips in their own speedgrades.
Celerons at around 700MHz are basically the worst due to their 66MHz FSB. The 800MHz and up Celerons are a step up from them due to their 100MHz FSB and the Tualerons are another improvement due to their 256kb cache (but these have more limited compatibility with older boards).

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Reply 9 of 20, by MB17

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Thanks for your all replies and help. When changing FSB to 133, Bios shows speed of 00 Mhz, apparently don't recognize actual speed, but under windows everything is fine and shows speed of 1 Ghz.

One more question, for now my P3 in slot 1 has a passive cooling, a big heat sink without fan, so i want to have the same in my slotket CPU. What could you recommend for a passive cooling on S370 CPU ?

Reply 10 of 20, by dionb

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MB17 wrote on 2021-03-07, 16:31:

Thanks for your all replies and help. When changing FSB to 133, Bios shows speed of 00 Mhz, apparently don't recognize actual speed, but under windows everything is fine and shows speed of 1 Ghz.

One more question, for now my P3 in slot 1 has a passive cooling, a big heat sink without fan, so i want to have the same in my slotket CPU. What could you recommend for a passive cooling on S370 CPU ?

Zalman CNPS-3100 or 6000Cu.

This sort of beast (shown mounted on a slocket):
cnps3100_fins_ram2.jpg

Now, fully passive CPU cooling only works with sufficient airflow. OEM cases frequently have ducts for that, but with generic ATX stuff, you probably will need a case fan that blows down on it. Fortunately, Zalman supplies a bracket for exactly that, something you mount on the first three expansion slots that positions a big, slow casefan above the CPU. Of course, the default 80mm or 90mm (depending on model) fan wasn't big or slow enough for me, so I swapped it out for a 120mm Noctua Redux:

zNylMeb0tI4j0X5Alm6lHYkW.png?f=user_large

This currently keeps a P3-1400S cool without a sound. Your P3-1100 is 8W hotter, but should still be well within the limits for these heatsinks. They were designed with Athlon Thunderbird in mind, and although not the best overclocking options, they worked fine on a stock 70W Thunderbird, so 40W Coppermine should be no problem at all.

Reply 11 of 20, by PARKE

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MB17 wrote on 2021-03-07, 16:31:

One more question, for now my P3 in slot 1 has a passive cooling, a big heat sink without fan, so i want to have the same in my slotket CPU. What could you recommend for a passive cooling on S370 CPU ?

Can you post a couple of photo's of your system + interior ? Some of us are always interested in other people's builds.

Reply 12 of 20, by MB17

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PARKE wrote on 2021-03-07, 17:41:

Can you post a couple of photo's of your system + interior ? Some of us are always interested in other people's builds.

Yes, sure. Here are photos:

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Reply 13 of 20, by MB17

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Cards in my systems are:
AGP GPU: Leadtek Winfast 500 (GeForce3 Ti 500)
PCI GPU: Diamond Monster Fusion (3DFX Voodoo Banshee)
Sound Card 1: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy
Sound Card 2: Diamond Monster Sound MX300 (Aureal Vortex 2)
I installed two operating systems:
Under Windows 2000 I'm using Geforce & Audigy
Under Windows 98 SE I'm using Banshee and Vortex.

Reply 14 of 20, by Paadam

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Your problem is most likely RAM timings. There are sticks that are PC133 but cannot handle tight timings, try set loower timings on them, your other components should have no problems running at 133 FSB (I have several Chaintech 44BX mobos, ALL of them work very well at and beyond 133 MHz).

Many 3Dfx and Pentium III-S stuff.
My amibay FS thread: www.amibay.com/showthread.php?88030-Man ... -370-dual)

Reply 15 of 20, by MB17

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Paadam wrote on 2021-03-07, 20:37:

Your problem is most likely RAM timings. There are sticks that are PC133 but cannot handle tight timings, try set loower timings on them, your other components should have no problems running at 133 FSB (I have several Chaintech 44BX mobos, ALL of them work very well at and beyond 133 MHz).

You're correct ! Changed timing from 2 to 3 and Prime95 works flawlessly.

Reply 16 of 20, by jheronimus

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MB17 wrote on 2021-03-07, 16:31:

Thanks for your all replies and help. When changing FSB to 133, Bios shows speed of 00 Mhz, apparently don't recognize actual speed, but under windows everything is fine and shows speed of 1 Ghz.

One more question, for now my P3 in slot 1 has a passive cooling, a big heat sink without fan, so i want to have the same in my slotket CPU. What could you recommend for a passive cooling on S370 CPU ?

I'm using Pentium 3 11x100 (SL5QW) in my Chaintech 6BTM0. That's a 440BX board as well, only full-ATX. I've found a modded BIOS with support for Tualatin which also added support for my SL5QW. Could be something similar available for your board as well?

MR BIOS catalog
Unicore catalog

Reply 17 of 20, by SPBHM

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the main thing to be aware with 440BX at 133 is that the AGP clock is always overclocked and some video cards might have issues
that's one thing that lead me to get the 1100, but, FSB 133 is significantly faster. I would think a 933 can often beat the 1100.

Reply 18 of 20, by MB17

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I have one more problem with my setup. All my PCI slots are in use, but i want an ethernet adapter. I bought D-Link Dub E-100 adapter via USB (looks exactly like that https://www.dlink.lt/en/products/150/2429.html)
i managed to install drivers under Windows XP, but on Windows 2000 and 98 i still have driver conflicts, hardware isn't properly installed. Could somebody help me ?

Maybe somebody could recommend an adapter which works for sure under Win 2000 & 98 ?

Reply 19 of 20, by auron

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SPBHM wrote on 2021-03-08, 00:15:

that's one thing that lead me to get the 1100, but, FSB 133 is significantly faster. I would think a 933 can often beat the 1100.

cherrypicking some best case scenarios with a proper CPU bottleneck i can find for the 800E vs. 800EB:

UT2003: 73.3 vs. 80.9 FPS
Q3A: 105.8 vs. 121 FPS
winrar: 122 vs. 141 seconds

the rest (synthetics, encoders) is not even worth citing as there's barely any difference in those. so, how to rate this? i'm erring on the side of calling that a nice average ~15% performance uptick, but certainly not the earthshattering lifting of a terrible 100mhz FSB bottleneck that some people here would have you think. the p3 1100/100 is fine all things considered thanks to its 256kb cache, it's the coppermine celerons that struggle with their 128kb, hence why the coppermine tualatins see such an uptick despite still being at 100mhz FSB...

that being said none of these late p3s aged out all that well in terms of gaming, ut2003 came out not even a year after the 1400s and will thrash even that chip pretty hard. that's another reason why the BX@133 stuff is just silly nowadays, it's not enough to make anything playable that wouldn't be @100mhz FSB, but can cause severe stability issues.