VOGONS


Reply 21 of 28, by AngryByDefault

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Great info everyone, thank you.

This raised a few specific questions for me:

- Would it be reasonable to say that Turions are the "mobile" version of Athlon64?

- Were Turions available for regular desktop PC mainboards?

- How do Turions stand among Athlon(64?) and Semprons regarding raw performance?

Lastly, could you point me to some timeline in which I could find more about this genealogy? While I started with computers way before this era this was a time when I was not payin attention at what was going on really....

Thanks in advance!

Reply 22 of 28, by BitWrangler

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"It's complicated" yes, the first lot of Turions were mobile, yes they were the same socket 754 as the desktop version, yes you could put them in 754 motherboards provided motherboards didn't freak out or refuse to give them the right voltages.... but Some A64s and Semprons were only 35W and were also used as "mobile" CPU, though mainly in larger format "desktop replacement" machines. Get one of those laptops and you could conceivably put another "desktop" CPU in it from the same series (If you haven't got the fastest already, meaning no point.)

They should mostly match equal cache, equal bus, equal speed A64s and Semprons clock for clock. Bearing in mind the PR ratings changed halfway through their lifetime, they were targetting P4 at first, then IDK what, some readjustment. Then also there came to be Semprons that had as much cache as earlier A64 or Turion models. Also various Semprons could or couldn't support full 64bit mode, some were 32bit only. I think the virtualisation feature was another some had and some didn't. In the latter half of their run, I think most Semprons could do 64 bit, and they changed the 32bit models to XPs, so if you're looking for a Barton check your XP 3000 listed is actually one and not a socket 754 chip etc.

Edit: Oh yah, not all Turions are s754 because they moved to S1G1 which was 754ish but not compatible.... then they went on to become the mobile X2s and gain more cores and features.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 23 of 28, by bZbZbZ

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AngryByDefault wrote on 2021-05-29, 23:00:
Great info everyone, thank you. […]
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Great info everyone, thank you.

This raised a few specific questions for me:

- Would it be reasonable to say that Turions are the "mobile" version of Athlon64?

- Were Turions available for regular desktop PC mainboards?

- How do Turions stand among Athlon(64?) and Semprons regarding raw performance?

Lastly, could you point me to some timeline in which I could find more about this genealogy? While I started with computers way before this era this was a time when I was not payin attention at what was going on really....

Thanks in advance!

The original single core Turion 64 processors were meant for laptops, but back then it was common for laptops to have socketed CPUs (the CPU was not soldered to the motherboard). Turion uses Socket 754 and thus are physically interchangeable with Socket 754 desktop CPUs (i.e. single channel Athlon 64, Sempron)... however motherboard compatibility is flakey. Most motherboards were not specifically intended/tested with Turion 64. So you may not be able to boot, or you might have other issues, etc. Performance wise, I'd expect them to outperform Semprons, which had less cache. Turion 64 is basically Athlon 64 with around half the Thermal Design Power and typically lower clockspeed.

For use in a desktop computer, there isn't really a big reason to try Turion IMO, except for curiosity sake (which for some people is reason enough). In a typical desktop computer the Athlon 64 CPUs are plentiful, not particularly power hungry (compared to say a Pentium 4 of the same era) and quite cheap.

The Turion 64 was introduced around 2005, as a response to Intel's Pentium M. As you may know, Pentium M was a mobile-specific single core chip which was derived from the Pentium III because Intel recognized that the Pentium 4 was not fit for thin-ish laptops. The Pentium M was further developed into the line of CPUs that became the Core 2 Duo. Comparatively, the Turion 64 was slightly faster than the Pentium M but the Pentium M consumed less power. In terms of market adoption, the Pentium M was far more successful, in part because of its excellent power efficiency and in part because it was very heavily marketed under the 'Centrino' brand in conjunction with Intel's WiFi capability (WiFi at the time was new-ish and it was kind of a big deal).

Here's a review from the era: https://techreport.com/review/9377/intels-pen … urion-64-ml-44/

Also, I find that CPU-World is a good resource for 'genealogy': https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/TYPE-Turion … technology.html

Reply 24 of 28, by Ydee

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If You want use the Turion CPU on desktop, You need only MT (25W TDP) or ML (35W) series, which are intended for s.754 and mobo with support for them in BIOS (I know that support has MSI boards, but there are other brands too). If You dont know, that Your mobo support Turion, safe bet will be Athlon64/Sempron(64) CPU.
Turion CPU lacks hetspreader, so You need another than stock cooler (or mod them - frame around the socket prevents touching the core) - cheap Zalman CNPS80G will do. Turion has more L2 memory (512/1024kB), than Sempron(64) (128/256) - Athlon64 has mostly 512kB, but some Clawhammers have 1024kB.
The best source of information can be found here: https://silentpcreview.com/amd-turion-64-on-the-desktop/
Mine ML-30 You can see on the photos below.

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Reply 25 of 28, by Ydee

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Another confirmed working board with Turions is ASRock K8A780LM (curiosity with s.754 from 2003!, combined with AMD 760G&710SB from 2009 and designed mainly for AM2/AM2+), but PCIe and lack of drivers for W98 make it unusable for W98 and for XP rig You can find lots of better solutions.

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Reply 26 of 28, by AngryByDefault

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Awesome, thank you guys!

As a broader, overall timeline reference I've also found this :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_processors

https://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/713 … pu-history.html

It seems I' ve got lots of reading to do...

Reply 27 of 28, by Hoping

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If you wan't to use standar coolers with the mobile procesors, just take the heatspreader of a desktop cpu and use it, I did this and the temps are great. And it makes harder to damage the exposed die, removing the heatspreader from this cpus is very easy.

Reply 28 of 28, by AlexZ

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Socket 754 Athlon 64 CPUs are very rare, while Semprons are quite common (and not that desirable). That's the main downside of socket 754. Other than that its perfect - AGP 8x, PATA and SATA and its faster than Athlon XP. Single memory channel and slower HT shouldn't be an issue for old Windows XP games.

Pentium III 900E, ECS P6BXT-A+, 384MB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 128MB, Voodoo 2 12MB, 80GB HDD, Yamaha SM718 ISA, 19" AOC 9GlrA
Athlon 64 3400+, MSI K8T Neo V, 1GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600GT 256MB, 250GB HDD, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS