Well I just tried the autopatcher, and it not only tweaked my monitor out (I hope it isn't damaged!) but it also installed the ugly Windows ME icons. Damn it all!

Around these parts, unofficial service packs are generally frowned upon. They often do more harm than good.

For reference, you don't need any system updates for Win98SE if you only want to run games that were released before 2001. Just install DirectX 7.0a and the standalone Windows Installer Update and you're good to go.

If you want to use USB sticks, also install Nusb version 3.3. Any versions newer than that try to turn Win98 into WinME.

My monitor wigged out during the autopatching, and now I cannot get a proper display. The screen is out of whack and dark, like there are refresh rate problems. I don't know if it can be repaired.

Hmmm I do mostly same as Joseph_Joestar and just add a few extra drivers (and MS DirectX update) to a native install if needed. Never have done a "autopatcher", can you point to where you got it ?

Horun wrote on 2021-06-01, 23:03:

Hmmm I do mostly same as Joseph_Joestar and just add a few extra drivers (and MS DirectX update) to a native install if needed. Never have done a "autopatcher", can you point to where you got it ?

I can't remember which site. You could select which modules it would install, unofficial tweaks, apps like 7zip, every hotfix, etc. All I know, is that this NOS 19 monitor is screwed. After the first reboot, I had dxdiag up to see something, and the screen wen black, white, and corrupted. It rebooted and the picture has been somewhat normal looking at low color depths and resolutions, and dark with a severe pincushion effect (pincushion option in the OSD doesn't have any effect at all.) The higher the resolution, the more sharp the effects. It has me hoping that it is a capacitor or a part I can salvage from another monitor. I really don't know what to do. I paid good money for this monitor and it has only a few hours total on it, as it was literally new in the box and even smells new. The only other CRTs I have are dim and small, and LCDs are garbage for MS-DOS.

I am feeling crushed.

Have you tried using it with a different computer or even a different video card? Just for grins have you tried finding a driver for the monitor instead of the generic windows plug and play driver?

I forgot to ask what monitor is it?

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2021-06-02, 00:58:

Have you tried using it with a different computer or even a different video card? Just for grins have you tried finding a driver for the monitor instead of the generic windows plug and play driver?

It is a KDS XF-9I. I tried connecting it to the VGA port on my laptop (which afterwards I regained some function such as proper color and half of the OSD controls.) I also removed the Voodoo5 and put some old Radeon in there and still had the problems. When you run dxdiag it can tweak a little bit when it is loading display information. I think that when I did this, I may have blown a cap or something, and the autopatcher running was just a coincidence.

The monitor looks clean, crisp, and new. This just sucks... This is worse than when my first 4DPS died.

With it being a NIB monitor it's worth digging into. It's probably worth pulling the back of the case and being very careful give it a good examination.

I tried 98SE SP3 recently and my install was bricked after installing Via chipset drivers. Additionally, the CPU detection in the properties dialog of My Computer no longer worked (just displayed RAM). I see no reason to install these service packs anyhow, there isn't much good that they do.

chrismeyer6 wrote on 2021-06-02, 01:57:

With it being a NIB monitor it's worth digging into. It's probably worth pulling the back of the case and being very careful give it a good examination.

I agree. The monitor is beautiful, and now rare, given it's pristine condition. The only reason I forked over the cash was because it was new-in-box. I knew it would eventually die due to age, but I thought I would get 5-10 years out of it. Even if I can't figure it out, I will snap pics and take notes, incase I get my hands on another model that could allow me to swap parts.

brian105 wrote on 2021-06-02, 02:07:

I tried 98SE SP3 recently and my install was bricked after installing Via chipset drivers. Additionally, the CPU detection in the properties dialog of My Computer no longer worked (just displayed RAM). I see no reason to install these service packs anyhow, there isn't much good that they do.

I regret it, but I think that whatever happened to the monitor was going to happen. Sitting in a box for 15-20 years probably isn't good for the caps. I have been experimenting with multiple OS installs and driver combinations with multiple SD cards, and thus there has been a lot of rebooting and graphics drivers engaging the monitor, over and over again for about a week. I ran dxdiag, and it did it's screen tweaking it does whenever I load it, and the screen went haywire.

brian105 wrote on 2021-06-02, 02:07:

I tried 98SE SP3 recently and my install was bricked after installing Via chipset drivers.

You should have installed all relevant drivers in the first place. Applying any service pack would be the very last step.

1541 wrote on 2021-06-02, 07:32:

brian105 wrote on 2021-06-02, 02:07:

I tried 98SE SP3 recently and my install was bricked after installing Via chipset drivers.

You should have installed all relevant drivers in the first place. Applying any service pack would be the very last step.

Hindsight is always 20/20, though I never had a problem with it in the past, and there was always the though that there was something critical that might need to be installed. This auto patcher installs DX 9.0c which allows pretty much any Voodoo 5 driver to run. When working on my Windows 95 OSR2 SD card, I had to install different versions of DX while trying to find a driver that would work. The system didn't even see the V5 until I coupled Raziel's drivers with DX 8.0a, I believe it was. Part of the decision was due to that and due to past experience. Either way, it was probably a coincidence, unless a Windows 98 update sent strange signals to the monitor, or running Dxdiag with DX 6 without a graphics driver installed does something similar. Either way, neither should be a thing that could knock out a "new" monitor. I am thinking that despite the NOS status of this pristine monitor, the components probably aged within the box and then I was using it heavily for a week.

I'm going to use a piece of electrical cable wrapped around a flat head screw driver on one end, with an alligator clip on the other, and discharge the power. I also heard that CRTs at the end had a part that caused most of the power to discharge upon power down. The closest person that is willing to look at these monitors is 1.3hrs away and that is if he didn't close up shop (it has been at least 6 months since I called him,) though I am going to give him a call. I am also going to open up a KDS 17 inch that I have to see if they share parts, and I am checking facebook marketplace, craigslist, ebay, and mercari for either the same 19" KDS model, or an alternative that I can use for now. I am also going to look for a couple of LCD monitors that support 4:3 A.R. and run at 70Hz+ for lower resolutions. I was planning on running 320x200 - 1024x768, never going higher.

As far as 98SE goes, the 3.x line of service packs should be completely avoided, it is full of files from later windowses, replacing ones of 98 itself. A lot of software will break due to it. There are older ones, 2.1 for example, that will install all the official updates with a few unofficial ones, but without the compatibility problems.

Tiido wrote on 2021-06-02, 11:59:

As far as 98SE goes, the 3.x line of service packs should be completely avoided, it is full of files from later windowses, replacing ones of 98 itself. A lot of software will break due to it. There are older ones, 2.1 for example, that will install all the official updates with a few unofficial ones, but without the compatibility problems.

All of them seem to install Windows ME icons, which I hate. I don't understand the people who make the service packs. If I wanted my Wind9x to look like ME, I would just install ME.

The icons are in SHELL32.DLL IIRC, you can swap out the file for old one.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-01, 21:00:

Around these parts, unofficial service packs are generally frowned upon. They often do more harm than good.

For reference, you don't need any system updates for Win98SE if you only want to run games that were released before 2001. Just install DirectX 7.0a and the standalone Windows Installer Update and you're good to go.

If you want to use USB sticks, also install Nusb version 3.3. Any versions newer than that try to turn Win98 into WinME.

Exactly... I never needed any service packs 20 years ago, so why would I need them now? 😁
Nothing else is needed besides updating DirectX, the Windows installer and maybe adding NUSB. Everything works like a charm!

Grab yourself the Windows Update CD (I think it's from 04 ish?) it contains most of the final patches for Win98, and some other goodies.
I generally use that + a whole host of official updates that are backed up depending on what I want the machine to do.

I avoid KernelEX, any unofficial update "packs" and tweaks. Generally only using third party USB drivers and such again from official sources.