VOGONS


First post, by that1crzywhtguy

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I've been finishing plugging holes in my dos computer collection again lately, and this got me wondering about games for 286 computers...

I've been searching around and haven't been able to find anything conclusive. Are there games out there that need a 286 to run well, but won't run well on a 386 or higher?

I have a very versatile dos computer that will cover 386dx25 era up to pentium windows 9x and early 3dfx games. I also own a 5150. Most recently I acquired a Tandy 1000 EX (7.16mhz/4.77mhz). So anything for an 808x is covered great, same with 386dx25 and up... So what about 286?

Any info would be great!

Last edited by that1crzywhtguy on 2021-08-31, 23:45. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 12, by mkarcher

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There are a lot of games from the late 80s that won't run nicely on a 4.77MHz 8088 computer, like the 5150. Assuming those games have working speed control, they would run fine on a 386DX-33 (or a computer that behaves like one, I guess you are talking about a cache-disabled K6-2+ or C3). In all times, there were (simple made hobbyist) games with no speed control at all, that just ran fine on the computer of the author, and were never tested on different computers. You don't need to match performance perfectly, but as a 386DX-33 like computer is (guesstimated) around 10 times faster than a 5150, there is a huge performance gap, and some point in-between would be a good idea.

You don't need a 286 computer to fill that hole. While a 10MHz turbo XT might be a bit on the slow side, especially in graphics intense games, thanks to the slow 8-bit bus, a 8 MHz 286 or 8MHz 386 machine would fit the hole quite well. The performance of a 286 and a 386DX at the same clock speed is approximately the same for 16-bit software. The 386SX tends to be slightly slower than a 286 or 386DX at the same clock speed. So if your old system gets down to performance levels comparable to a de-turboed 16-MHz 386 system, running like at 8MHz, you are fine. If the slowest level you can get from your main system is more like a 33MHz 386 systems (4 times at fast), you will experience a gap between the PC and that system that allows some software to fall though.

You only NEED a 286 specifically if you want to try to write your own fake-VM86 LOADALL based 286 operating system, because that feature is not supported on 386 processors (and no one in their right mind actually wants to use that feature for anything except implementing 286 XMS drivers or simple tasks like that). If it's just about (game) performance, getting an entry-level 386 system might be easier than a 286 system, and it will work nicely for you as well. Some systems, like the classic Compaq Deskpro 386, have fine speed control by having the timer block the bus with a programmable duty cycle. Having a "slow" flexible system like that would be nice, but good look finding the classic Deskpro 386 (or Deskpro 386/20) at an acceptable price. Note there are no letters in the number part, just in the word "Compaq". I don't know whether newer Compaqs still have that feature, so don't go buying a Compaq Deskpro 386s/20 or Compaq Deskpro 386/25e because of this post!

Reply 3 of 12, by mkarcher

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that1crzywhtguy wrote on 2021-08-31, 21:13:

Are there any notable examples of games that run in a 286 well, but not on 808x or 386?

Well, my previous post was probably way too long. You still didn't specify the clock speed of your 386 computer you are comparing against. As 386 computers were available from 16 to 40 MHz, it makes a great difference. I will have a very hard time finding a game that runs well on a (specific) 286, but not on either a Turbo XT with an 8088 at 10MHz or a 386SX-16. In fact, as long as a game doesn't use advanced processor instruction, it should be quite playable on at least one of these two systems. For the 8088, you already gave more clear specifications by explicitly mentioning the 5150. Except for really cheaped-out computers like the IBM PCjr or the earliest of the Tandy 1000 models, the 5150 is at the bottom of 8088 performance.

You can find a lot of games that are not fun on the 5150, but work nice on a Turbo XT. If I remember correctly, Prince of Persia is jerky on the original 5150, but does quite well on higher-specced 808x machines. Still, prince of persia doesn't fit into your criteria, because it also runs fine on 386 and 486 computers, as this game has proper speed control. The same is true for the Commander Keen series, especially from Keen 4 onwards.

Finding games that work on an average level 286, but are way to fast on a 386-33 is more difficult, but Supaplex (without the "speed fix" which is the usual version distributed by Supaplex enthusiasts nowadays) is most likely not meant to be played at 70 frames per second - yet that is exactly the rate you will get on fast 386 computers and 486 computers, and feels more playable at 35 fps, the speed you get on 286 computers. I never tested Supaplex on an 5150, but I would be very surprised if that system can keep up in high-motion moments. So this game would be my prime candidate for the "doesn't play nice on the 5150, doesn't play nice on a 386-33" category, if it weren't for the modern patched "speed fix" version that caps the game at 35fps even on fast machines (making it playable on 486-class computers even in more complicated levels).

Actually, the PC version of Supaplex is a port of an Amiga game, and possibly was originally intended to be played at 50 or 60 fps (PAL or NTSC timing), and the PC VGA timing is off both at 35fps and 70fps. As some levels are quite unplayable at 70fps, but there is a general feeling of sluggishness at 35fps, my bet would be that it was originally intended for PAL Amiga timing at 50fps.

Reply 4 of 12, by jakethompson1

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mkarcher wrote on 2021-08-31, 20:45:

The performance of a 286 and a 386DX at the same clock speed is approximately the same for 16-bit software. The 386SX tends to be slightly slower than a 286 or 386DX at the same clock speed. So if your old system gets down to performance levels comparable to a de-turboed 16-MHz 386 system, running like at 8MHz, you are fine.

Is it fair to say that Virtual 8086 mode is the main (only?) reason for the 386SX's existence? Or also Intel marketing to have a cost reduced 386 to compete with faster clocked 286 processors from other vendors, similar to the 486SX-16 vs. Am386DX-40.

Reply 5 of 12, by that1crzywhtguy

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Don't apologize for the length of the posts! This info is all great. 😁

Sorry I didn't specify my specs, should have done that. 😁

My versatile dos pc can run as slow as a 386dx25 IIRC.

I also have the Tandy 1000ex now that runs at 7.16mhz.

If there aren't any games I'll really want to play that won't run well on my current machines, I'll probably not be hunting down a 286 (but then again, no promises! 😁).

If there are some really cool games out there however that don't run on my machines, maybe I'll go hunting soon!

Reply 6 of 12, by creepingnet

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To me, the 286 is a bit of an interesting part of PC history. The CPU started development just as the PC platform was being developed at Boca Raton in the late 70's, and came out just a year after the original PC. IBM Did not harness it for the PC Platform until 1984, 2 years after it's release - so the 286's development was not focused on the DOS/x86 market so much at first, but rather business machines meant to interface with mainframes and heavy workloads, as well as a s a "unix" type workstation ("Microsoft Xenix was one such *nix intended to take full advantage of the 286).

However, most people just used them as "fast XT's". TBH, I don't own a 386, I own a 286 running at 12MHz, and that actually covers a lot of ground game-wise, plus the Turbo Switch allows me to slow it down to XT speeds. This is one reason my GEM 286 is in a contest with my Tandy 1000A for which one is the better retro system. I've got a 8088 (tandy), 286 (GEM 286), four 486s (NEC VErsa x3 + Socket 3 Desktop DX4-100 system), and two Pentiums (Versa P75 Laptop, and a P100 desktop that's slower than the laptop) - and honestly, I could easily get away with just one of the 486 and the 286 or the 486 and the Tandy.

The problem with the Tandy 1000 is, being a 4.77MHz system with an actual 8088 instead of a V20, a lot of later XT-class titles run a little too slow, that's where the GEM runs better, but it does have 3-voice sound for AGI Sierra games and games that use it - but the GEM overlaps BOTH the 8088 and the 486 because it runs all the XT-stuff perfectly with Turbo Off, all of the AT/386 era stuff runs quite well on it, and some earlier 486-era titles run on it though not as well as on a 486 of course.

At it's lowest, my 286 runs stuff like old BASIC games and old AGI and SCI games that run at full speed on the "fast" setting. Granted I don't have Tandy 3-voice on the AGI stuff, but I do have Adlib support on the SCI Stuff thanks to a SoundBlaster card. It seems the 286's peak era software would be things like Prince of Persia, Monkey Island 1 & 2, Ultima VI: The False Prophet, Tank Wars, BlockOut, and anything else in that magic zone of 1988-1991. Anything beyond that goes a little too slow, and anything before that that is not speed throttled needs the Turbo Switch turned off. My 286 is the only machine with a Turbo Switch on it.

A 386 has a benefit of going deeper into the 486 catalog if you are not as interested in any DOS software post 94-ish, but it also has a downside that not all 386's have a turbo switch, and not all of them slow down enough to work with XT-class software well enough to work right.

I don't think any games were specifically developed to take advantage of or utilize the 80286 in any special way that a 386 or 486 can't recreate. The 286 is kind of weird in the lot, it goes in this strange time where EGA, ESDI, and GameBlaster were a thing - three of the less as often seen items in vintage PC's, mostly because the heyday was a bit before inexpensive LPX 386 SX IDE VGA machine started to turn up, and the clone scene was just heating up.

I think it really just boils down to a preference of what you'd prefer to have for other reasons? Do you prefer 80's aesthetics? Odd old hardware like EGA, ESDI, or GameBlaster, or Hercules? Or do you want a VGA system with a 386 that was the baseline for most games from 1990 onward? Are you like me, wanting to show what an "underdog" can really do in capable hands? Or someone who wants a more plug-n-play solution? One other thing to consider is you can get the 386, especially a DX-40, near or into 486 DX territory with the right tweaks and upgrades.

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Reply 8 of 12, by Robin4

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Wings of Fury

Is a great 286 game. Doesnt run great on a 8086 or 8088 (slow) But runs to fast on a 386 systems.

The best speed is on a 286-12Mhz machine.

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 9 of 12, by that1crzywhtguy

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Robin4 wrote on 2021-08-31, 22:58:

Wings of Fury

Is a great 286 game. Doesnt run great on a 8086 or 8088 (slow) But runs to fast on a 386 systems.

The best speed is on a 286-12Mhz machine.

So they do exist! Still too slow on a 7.16mhz tandy?

Any others any one knows of? It would take a very special game for me to source a whole new computer for it. 😁

Reply 10 of 12, by Robin4

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Never played the game on a tandy.. But my example is for the IBM clone pc.
I know this because i played this game on a 386 pc.. The plane would fly like crazy..
On a XT system its kinda slow.

Speedy 286 machine over 16 Mhz make no sense. Yes a 20 or a 25 Mhz can be faster then a SX counter part.
But most of that software requires a 386 anyway. Also wolf 3d plays better on a 386, then it would on a 286.

That way i have a slow 286.. It would run only the games that would require a faster machine which xt would be to slow..

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 11 of 12, by pentiumspeed

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Back in the day when I had 286-12 as toy computer with OS is DOS as these parts were donated in 1989-90 or so. Ran the old CGA and MDA games perfectly, not too fast but didn't have VGA or EGA because all I had was ATI wonder card and TTL monochrome monitor, 20MB or 40MB Seagate MFM that needed a turn to unstick every time I boot it up.

When I got 386DX 25, no cache, this was based on junky C&T that wouldn't take any bump in bios setting without crashing, at defaults is perfect, still ran same games I have from that 286.

Honestly, get either 386DX or SX, even 486 (turn off the internal cache, slow to 16MHz with change of oscillator crystal or jumper) to emulate a cached 386DX or turn both internal and external cache off to emulate a low end 386DX of any speed. Use 16 bit ISA VGA card, they will work with CGA, EGA and MDA emulation if I remember correctly. Which I did with my 386DX 25 and cheap 16 bit VGA video card, which I didn't remember what it was.

Also you can slow the pentium 100 CPU (minimum is 1.5X) socket 5 with internal cache off or both int and ext off, run at sub 50MHz bus, if the jumpers allows 40MHz or so. Etc. Even better if using SiS chipset and FPM memory and using 16 bit ISA VGA card instead.

Ideas abounds.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 12 of 12, by that1crzywhtguy

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Robin4 wrote on 2021-08-31, 23:11:
Never played the game on a tandy.. But my example is for the IBM clone pc. I know this because i played this game on a 386 pc.. […]
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Never played the game on a tandy.. But my example is for the IBM clone pc.
I know this because i played this game on a 386 pc.. The plane would fly like crazy..
On a XT system its kinda slow.

Speedy 286 machine over 16 Mhz make no sense. Yes a 20 or a 25 Mhz can be faster then a SX counter part.
But most of that software requires a 386 anyway. Also wolf 3d plays better on a 386, then it would on a 286.

That way i have a slow 286.. It would run only the games that would require a faster machine which xt would be to slow..

Well, eventually maybe I'll test that on my 7.16mhz 8088!

Considering what year that title launched, I'm very surprised to hear it won't play nice on anything other than a 286.

Anybody have any other notable titles we can add to the list?