VOGONS


First post, by Kahenraz

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I have an ASUS P2B revision 1.10 which came stock with BIOS version 1006. This original BIOS worked fine with a Pentium 2 and slocket Celeron as well as 100 Mhz FSB Pentium 3s but would fail to POST with a 133 Mhz Pentium 3.

Updating the BIOS to the latest 1014 allowed me to use 133 Mhz Katmai processors but not Coppermine; at least not reliably. I have been able to get this board to work intermittently with some Coppermine processors in a slocket but only at higher voltages between 1.9 and 2.0V. I suspect this is due to the board not being designed for these lower voltages. And while the board will sometimes boot with these newer processors, it is very unreliable. From what I understand, the later 1.12 revision works well with Coppermine.

I only have socket 370 Coppermines to test with and no proper slot 1 Coppermines to compare. I tested with various processors at 100, 133, and even a 66 Mhz Coppermine Celeron without stable results.

Can someone with a revision 1.12 motherboard provide photos of the VRMs on their board? I wonder if they can be upgraded or if this requires addition logic elsewhere.

Does anyone have any other information or experience to share on pairing Coppermine Pentium 3s with this board?

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Photos of the VRMs:

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Reply 1 of 35, by Gmlb256

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-09-08, 20:28:

From what I understand, the later 1.12 revision works well with Coppermine.

My current Slot 1 ASUS board is very similar to the P2B (not a P2B exactly but it is revision 1.12) and doesn't have any issues with a Coppermine based CPU on it. I only have two of them that are properly Slot 1, not any Socket 370 CPU or any slotket to use on them.

The earlier revisions didn't have the lower voltages necessary for these CPUs. If you want some photos of it, I can take the computer case off of it.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 2 of 35, by Tetrium

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The ASUS P2B was the motherboard of my very first PC. Mine was a version 1.10 and even though officially this version did not support Coppermine, some actually did (mine did actually support Coppermine. I guess I had to update the BIOS for this but I don't remember as I ran a Katmai for the longest time when that PC was still in use).

I got the required info from an ancient webpage I can't locate anymore (it is likely gone by now), but this page has the basic info you will probably need: https://theretroweb.com/hardware/motherboards/asus-p2b

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 3 of 35, by Gmlb256

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Here are some photos of it, sorry if the labels are barely visible.

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    Near the Slot 1.
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    Near the RAM slots. It's a K2983 like the P2B there one of these.
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Last edited by Gmlb256 on 2021-09-08, 20:53. Edited 1 time in total.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 4 of 35, by Doornkaat

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In fringe cases an unlucky combination of slocket and mainboard can cause issues with Coppermine PIIIs.
What slocket are you using? Do you have pictures?
Also have you thought about a recap? If stability issues get better by rausing voltages it is likely that Vcore isn't stable.

Reply 5 of 35, by BitWrangler

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http://tipperlinne.com/p2bmod.htm
also some useful info here, though mainly Tualatin focussed...
https://www.oocities.org/_lunchbox/index.html

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 7 of 35, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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This is my usual goto for all things P2B

https://web.archive.org/web/20191114013933/ht … pgrade_faq.html

For your particular situation maybe start with this quote from the above link...

Q: Are there differences between boards even if they have the same revision (or even same pcba number)?
A: Yes there are. Most notable are the P2B rev. 1.10, the P2B-D/-DS rev. 1.06 pcba D01/D02 (and even some 1.05 boards) and the P2B-F (those with the not supported pcba numbers for coppermines) boards, some of these boards indeed have the newer voltage regulator chips and thus can run slot1 coppermines (and fcpga coppermines with slotkets without voltage adjustment jumpers) just fine. See question about voltage regulator chips.

Reply 9 of 35, by Kahenraz

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I've done additional testing and found that this particular revision works with Coppermine and Tualatin with the latest BIOS version 1014 as long as you have the appropriate slocket. A 1.8V core voltage is required at a minimum, regardless of the rated CPU voltage so a VRM or voltage clamp must exist for the slocket to work with one of these processors.

I don't have a lower voltage Coppermine Slot 1 CPU yet but I will test to see if this works once I have one. It will be interesting to see whether one of these lower voltage processors will work.

To clarify Tualatin support, I tested with a Coppermine T SLQJ and two pin-modded Tualatin SL6BY. I do not have an unmodded Tualatin to test with.

Reply 12 of 35, by Oetker

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-09-09, 11:25:

What is the voltage clamp used for? I only see it on some slockets.

I don't have any slockets with a VRM on it. Would these allow for setting the voltage lower than 1.8V?

Allow me to quote my article on P3 upgrades http://kentie.net/article/deskproupgrade/index.htm

There's also the matter of non-vcore voltages. Slotkets often include a voltage clamp chip, as some Slot 1 signals are higher-voltage than the S370 counterparts. In fact, Slot 1 Coppermine CPUs include a voltge clamp as well. Slotkets with such a chip are easy enough to find that I would avoid those that come without one - those are really only meant for Medochino Celerons. Then there's the fact that Tualatin CPUs use AGTL (1.25v) bus signaling instead of AGTL+ (1.5v). This doesn't seem to be an issue in practice; apparently even the PowerLeap PL-iP3/T doesn't change this voltage.

A slotket with a VRM would allow you to use lower voltages, but they're rare and expensive. If I understand correctly, during your tests you've been running Tualatins at 1.8v... oof.

Reply 14 of 35, by Kahenraz

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Here is the problem with being able to only use as low as 1.8V on revision 1.10. This is the minimum output according to the datasheet of the HIP6019CB PWM controller.

Would someone with a later revision share a photo of the PWM chip used on their boards? It's located to the left of the CPU slot towards the rear I/O panel.

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Reply 15 of 35, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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It's detailed in the link I posted earlier

"Chips that can provide voltages down to 1.3V:
HIP6019BCB
HIP6020ACB
HIP6004CB
HIP6004BCB
US3007CW

Chips that can only provide voltages down to 1.8V:
HIP6019CB
HIP6004ACB

This list is not complete. Asus has used quite a lot of different voltage regulator chips on its boards, so it's possible there are even more that Asus used I'm not aware of."

My P2B-DS is one of those marginal board revisions which may or may have support, depending on the chips used - fortunately mine does with a 6004BCB on the primary slot & a 6019BCB on the secondary.

Reply 18 of 35, by Oetker

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Kahenraz wrote on 2021-09-22, 21:11:

Does anyone know if I need to swap out the VRMs along with replacing the HIP6019BCB chip?

I think you mean the MOSFETs; look up the specs to see how much current they can provide, at lower voltage, they'll have to supply more current for a chip that uses the same amount of power. Here's something I typed up before regarding Tualatins:

Both Katmai and Tualatin CPUs pull about 32W, but a Tualatin will do so at a lower voltage. That means higher current. The Katmai will pull 16A, the Tualatin 22. Thankfully my board's F76132P MOSFETs can take 76A. They have an internal resistance of .011 Ohms. This means the power dissipated in the FETs goes from 16*16*0.011=2.8W to 22*22*0.011 to 5.3W. Thankfully, they already have a heatsink. Of course, the board's traces will also have to deal with the higher current. The heatsink doesn't get warm with the Coppermine Celeron at full load, nor does it with the Tualatin P3-S.

For Coppermine the values would be in between the two. On your board, the board itself is used for MOSFET cooling. However, you could easily stick on small heatsinks.

Edit: Your MOSFETs can take 45A, should be fine.

Reply 19 of 35, by Kahenraz

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The MOSFETs are pretty cool when paired with a 500Mhz Celeron but extremely hot with a 1.4Ghz Pentium 3. I installed little copper heatsinks on them to help. I wonder if they will be pushed even harder with the lower voltage.

The chip I ordered was through AliExpress and is estimated to arrive sometime next month. I'll update this thread when I swap out the chip for testing.

Last edited by Kahenraz on 2024-03-05, 06:49. Edited 1 time in total.