VOGONS


First post, by bloodem

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I found this board for what was basically the price of a cup of coffee, so I was very happy to see it working perfectly (or so I thought) when I initially tested it a few months ago.
Well, I decided to play with it again a few weeks ago, and to my surprise it failed to POST, in fact the POST diagnostic card gets stuck at "0D" with the default AWARD BIOS, which means "Initializing video interface".

But... how could this be? When I initially tested this motherboard, it worked like a charm...
And then it hit me: I had initially tested it with an ISA video card, as opposed to the VLB card that I was using now.
So I grabbed a Tseng ET4000AX ISA card from the shelf and, sure enough, it did POST without any problems.

Anyway, long story short, in the past few weeks I basically tried EVERYTHING:
- multiple BIOS versions, tested all AMI and AWARD versions that I found here on VOGONS and other websites.
- multiple CPUs, 5V and 3.3V, from both Intel and AMD.
- multiple VLB video cards that are otherwise in perfect working order (S3, Cirrus Logic, Avance Logic, ARK Logic)
- multiple VLB I/O controllers, they don't work either
- double, triple and quadruple checked all jumpers.
- played with cache timings, replaced cache chips, removed cache chips/disabled cache altogether.
- tested with VLB 0/1 wait states
- tested caps in circuit + removed and tested a few random caps as well - no issues: ESR, VLOSS and capacitance is within specs.

At this point I'm fairly sure that this is, in fact, a hardware problem. The board doesn't have any visible damage, it's in very good condition, all traces look good both on the front and back.
So I'm hoping that maybe someone else has had this issue and could point me in the right direction. 😀
I'm also attaching some pics, maybe someone will notice something that I haven't.

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1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 2 of 11, by bloodem

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Ydee wrote on 2021-09-21, 12:14:

Have you tried all three VLB slots? Even individually and with only one VLB device?

Oh, yeah! Tried all three slots with multiple cards, even thoroughly cleaned the contacts... but... no go.
Also, forgot to mention, tested various RAM modules, both SIMM 30 and 72 pin. Not that it would have anything to do with this problem but... had to try it. 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 3 of 11, by snufkin

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Are the pins in the slots all ok? Not sure from the photo, but it looks like there might be a couple out of position?

[edit: there also looks to be something over a couple of traces coming from the chipset, maybe a surface scratch?]

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Reply 4 of 11, by bloodem

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The chipset traces are fine, it's just a bit of dirt.
However... regarding the VLB extension slots, DAMN! You're absolutely right! How could I have missed it?! I must be going blind. 😁
The one up top is just scratched plastic, but there are actually a lot of damaged pins which are not even visible in these pics and some of them are shorting at the bottom of the slot. Ouch... 🙁
Worst of all, all 3 slots have this issue. Thanks a lot, PC Chips! 😀
Many thanks for the heads-up! 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 5 of 11, by cyclone3d

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I have multiple M912 boards and the VLB slots are fine on all of them.

A previous owner must have damaged the slots.. probably with a card that didn't have beveling on the edge connector.

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Reply 6 of 11, by bloodem

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I don't know... I compared them with those on other VLB boards that I have, and they seem much more flimsy.
But, yeah, I agree... It does seem like someone tried really hard to destroy them. 😁

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 7 of 11, by snufkin

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bloodem wrote on 2021-09-21, 13:00:

The chipset traces are fine, it's just a bit of dirt.
However... regarding the VLB extension slots, DAMN! You're absolutely right! How could I have missed it?! I must be going blind. 😁

I've had too many cases of skipping ahead to the most complicated/interesting way something can break, only for it to turn out to be something dumb (e.g. 'Have you checked the fuse?'), that I'm slowly learning to check the quick and simple things first.

The one up top is just scratched plastic, but there are actually a lot of damaged pins which are not even visible in these pics and some of them are shorting at the bottom of the slot. Ouch... 🙁

Spotting a problem that can't even be seen? Obviously intuitive genius and not at all a lucky guess. Not at all.
Surprised that it's all 3 slots, but I can just imagine someone mashing a card in to the first slot, mangling some contacts, then wondering why it didn't work, then trying it in the next slot. Repeat until broken.
Have fun fixing them all, hope it still works.

Reply 8 of 11, by bloodem

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snufkin wrote on 2021-09-21, 16:16:

I've had too many cases of skipping ahead to the most complicated/interesting way something can break, only for it to turn out to be something dumb (e.g. 'Have you checked the fuse?'), that I'm slowly learning to check the quick and simple things first.

Don't I know it... Somehow I also always go the complicated route first. 😁

snufkin wrote on 2021-09-21, 16:16:

Have fun fixing them all, hope it still works.

Oh, these are impossible to fix, the damage is too extreme, so I'm not even going to bother.
When I find the time, will just remove the slots with the hot air station and swap them with good ones from other damaged boards that I have lying around. Never replaced VLB extension slots before, so it will be a first for me. 😁 I did replace AGP and memory slots in the past, so this shouldn't be much different.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 9 of 11, by AlexZ

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On the picture there isn't anything that's impossible to fix. You just need good light, magnifying glass, needle and lot of patience. I would try to separate shorted pins first and try to get at least one VLB slot working - one that is easiest to fix. If you can't then chipset may have been shorted.

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Reply 10 of 11, by bloodem

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bloodem wrote on 2021-09-21, 13:00:

[...] but there are actually a lot of damaged pins which are not even visible in these pics and some of them are shorting at the bottom of the slot. Ouch... 🙁
Worst of all, all 3 slots have this issue. [...]

😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 11 of 11, by TheMobRules

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I had to remove the entire VLB slot to fix a single mangled contact, there was just no way of doing it without desoldering... so I agree, better to just replace the slots if you have the tools to do it.