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Anders- wrote on 2021-10-15, 16:08:

Silencing a discussion is a bad idea, better to just move it to a dedicated thread 😀

I was thinking the same thing prior posting. 😀

My posts were deleted too. Everyone involved got a PM from him warning about community standards.

Something users like appiah4 and xcomcmdr seem to ignore. Both like to bash and harass apple users on this forum, and they also like to start a flame war about that. It's not their first time doing that.

I'd say the mod did a fine job yesterday when he closed it and deleted some of the offending posts. His only mistake was reopening the thread, a new one should've been made to clear up, unless all the unrelated posts were deleted (which they weren't, including the offensive ones from the two guys mentioned above).

However, I have no interest in a separate thread to discuss a subject that I have already "closed" a few posts ago, when I had stated that I'd keep my position against RtoR and the way they want the things done, and that I have nothing more to add to that subject nor have any interest to do. I was going to ignore the subject this morning, considering it was closed when the mod intervened yesterday, until I saw other users mentioning me and saying "things".

I can't help but notice this whole Right to Repair argument has reduced the quality of the conversations on this thread.
It's also pretty clear that none of the parties will be able to convince the other, making the arguing process useless.

Maybe consider going back to a relevant topic, before someone has another tantrum episode.

Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-15, 16:26:

Something users like appiah4 and xcomcmdr seem to ignore. Both like to bash and harass apple users on this forum, and they also like to start a flame war about that. It's not their first time doing that.

I only agreed with you about 'Fuck Intel', and expressed by 'Fuck Apple harder' that Apple was even worse for the consumer.

That's all. My message wasn't deleted, I didn't get a PM, and I don't harass anyone.

I'm going back to old ass Windows Vista technologies which should have won over the WebApps :p

Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-15, 12:35:

YES, I NEVER took all my previous and current car to third party repair shops. I did it just to exhibit my money? No, I did it because it is the right thing to do. I’m not rich, but I do not have an urge to go out and slap on your face “hey, this is my Ferrari!”. I just chose not to work with criminals.

🤣 I guess since I was old enough to help my dad on his car with the brakes (age 9 or 10) to current age (39) working on three project cars, swapping engines, reinforcing frames, patching floorboards, running harnesses for EFI, rebuilding engines and maunal swapping automatics have been a disgraceful, illegal, and dangerous life! I was clearly not thinking of the children and I will be raped in a parking lot at night. Damn.

What I SHOULD have done is have the dealer service my first car, a 1987 Escort, and rip me off $95 to fix a pigtail connector to then charge me $35 (these are 1998 prices) to diagnose the car and a further $400 to fix the wrong part! Oh man I regret spending $20 on the Haynes manual for the car, getting to know it, learning about how the car's systems work, developing troubleshooting skills, fixing the car further enhancing and transferring those skills to not only other cars, but technology in general. I regret growing manual dexterity and even helping friends out with their cars, hell even making a few bucks on the side in college flipping cars and underground rental property late night engine swaps for cash. I've learned too much and had too much fun doing so!

You're absolutely right, I shouldn't use my brain and attempt to develop skills. I should buy pre-made everything, never ever attempt to think about how to repair something (that's dangerous!) and drain my wallet on authorized, OEM repair centres.

Bro, if I did that, I'd be a retarded fatass mouthbreather still living with his parents as all the money I spent on "legit" repairs would be wasted on that instead of a mortgage, education, etc. I'd never have been able to travel the world and live abroad, expanding horizons even further.

What you're proposing is the wilful rotting and underuse of the greatest asset anyone reading this has - their brain.

You know what, make right to repair illegal. You think that's gonna stop people? Will the cops come to your house and arrest you for fixing your microwave or soldering a new wire to your winter beater's headlamp system? I guess if we keep voluntarily bugging our houses with smart tech, maybe they won't have to.

Whatever the outcome is, it's not gonna stop me. I feel that it won't stop too many either.

Oh, retro activity - acquired a Dell 17 inch CRT to go with a Dell 486 66 system. Picked out a gray CDROM for it, and probably will be using an 850 Mb hard disk when the computer actually comes to my house.

Posts have been split and this new thread have gone through some cleaning. Many posts have been restored (albeit in edited form) to give context.

I left the posts commenting the moderation as it's fair feedback. Thread could've been better cleaned up, but Snover unfortunately didn't have time at that moment to do more than an "emergency" moderation. This happened during night time (EU time) and most of us mods are based in Europe, which unfortunately makes us a little less covered during all hours.

vetz wrote on 2021-10-16, 06:55:

Posts have been split and this new thread have gone through some cleaning. Many posts have been restored (albeit in edited form) to give context.

Thanks vetz.

I've noticed a small technical bug though: moved posts, as well as this very thread, don't appear in "Your posts" (ego search).

No one is forced to buy hardware that is not meant to be repaired by the owner, by a third party company or whatever. Simply don't buy those things. It's that simple.

And it's very easy not to buy such products. Especially since Apple product always have been way overpriced compared to a PC with more features and capability.

I am not sure if they are overpriced for the quality of the product and the used material. All I can say is, I don't care. I always buy apple products because I love the integration of soft-/ and hardware. I would never buy a PC for home usage. I love my M1 mini because it's silent and powerfull. I recently bought a used 23" Apple Cinema-Display for 80 Euros. This very old Monitor from 2005!!! is so much better than the plastic shit you can buy new for double the price. Sorry, for me it's worth it. If it's overpriced in the first place...I don't care, I bought it used for 80 Euros.

dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-10-16, 08:30:

No one is forced to buy hardware that is not meant to be repaired by the owner, by a third party company or whatever. Simply don't buy those things. It's that simple.

Go buy a tractor. Or other large farm equipment.

Watch how your only option is to buy John deer or STARVE.

look how they fill that equipment with inane bullshit that forces you to get it repaired at their dealer.

"Well someone can make a new tractor company " you might retort. And you would be technically correct. However if you think for a second JD wouldn't use every ounce of their power to put you in the ground, LITERALLY, you are a naive fool. To say nothing of the probable 7-figure cost to start such a business today.

And it's very easy not to buy such products.

It's less easy, because their competitors sooner or later would also want you to buy new smartphone over choice to make small repairs to your current one. Just look at Samsung nowadays. And what would you do when you've ran out of options?

dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-10-16, 08:46:

It is so much better than the plastic shit you can buy new for double the price.

Do you not hear yourself? Half the damn point of r2r is to keep items like that fabled pro display working.

If Apple had the power to remotely turn all their old products off, to force people to buy new stuff, THEY WOULD.

dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-10-16, 08:46:

I am not sure if they are overpriced for the quality of the product and the used material. All I can say is, I don't care. I always buy apple products because I love the integration of soft-/ and hardware. I would never buy a PC for home usage. I love my M1 mini because it's silent and powerfull. I recently bought a used 23" Apple Cinema-Display for 80 Euros. This very old Monitor from 2005!!! is so much better than the plastic shit you can buy new for double the price. Sorry, for me it's worth it. If it's overpriced in the first place...I don't care, I bought it used for 80 Euros.

Don't get me wrong. I'd buy a M1 in a heartbeat. IF the price was fair.

I am out here. Thx, the discussion is pretty useless and will not change anything. I'll spend my time with usefull things.
Btw. LR told he would never leave NY because of his employees ...now what... so goodbye on this!

Bruninho wrote on 2021-10-14, 23:55:

ST251 wrote on 2021-10-14, 23:37:

In my opinion, this right to repair fight is more about getting manufacturers to actually distribute parts/documentation so even third party professionals are able to repair electronics.

RtoR wants them to be available to the people in general, which is the main point I strongly disagree, only professionals trained and certified by the manufacturer in question should get access to them. This is my position and will not change. The quality of their services will only be good when they are trained and certified. Otherwise, this is just ridiculous.

I haven't even read the entire thread thus far, but your opinion on this really stands out on how bizar it is.
You even mention that your opinion on this will not change, which means that you're not even debating anymore because debating implies you're willing to change your opinion to a better one if this comes to pass.

You even remind me of someone else who was something of a regular back before AMD overtook Intel with Zen, Skally or something? (Edit by Dominus: personal attack removed)

Personally I think people should have the right to choose. True that bad 3rd parties will do bad repairs, but in the end this should be your own choice.

ST251 wrote on 2021-10-15, 00:16:

I'm sorry, but I still don't agree that batteries are as dangerous as you're making it seem. If that was the case, there would be many many more battery fires than there are currently. Remember, for the longest time lithium ion batteries were removable.

Now if you're referring to having to spudger cases open, yes, there's an increased risk of battery puncture BUT that could be solved by them not relying so heavily on glue and finally using small screws :p

I've always disliked what the manufacturers changed with regards to replacable batteries. My last phone for example I had to exchange the battery because the old one turned out to be defective. It probably had been defective from the start but I was a real smartphone n00b back then so by the time I wized up the warranty was already void.
So I just bought a replacement battery and replaced it myself, easy peasy. But with the new ones I'd need to start soldering to replace the battery? How is that an improvement?

I did discuss this with other people from time to time and one of the advantages I heard was something about it being easier to make phones watertight? So this means that all currently new phones are watertight right? 😜

luckybob wrote on 2021-10-16, 08:58:

dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-10-16, 08:46:

It is so much better than the plastic shit you can buy new for double the price.

Do you not hear yourself? Half the damn point of r2r is to keep items like that fabled pro display working.

If Apple had the power to remotely turn all their old products off, to force people to buy new stuff, THEY WOULD.

Just like certain printer cartridge manufacturers kinda did 😜

Yes, I agree completely. Not all manufacturers would do this I believe but many would certainly end up doing very unscrupulous things if they are guaranteed to be able to get away with it. It would be unhealthy for society to give big companies this level of power.

Thanks Vetz for cleaning it up!
Please don‘t personally attack each other and maybe listen deep inside yourself if the topic is worth it to just scream your points while holding the hands over your ears 😉

It would be unhealthy for society to give big companies this level of power.

They kinda already have it. For example, Disney shaping up copyright laws to how they see fit .