With the p4 2.8\SATA\GeForce4 system up and running it has pretty much replaced the "period correct" Tualatin.
How much do you folks think the following is worth as a package?
P3 Tualatin on a Via chipset board, 512k RAM, GeForce2 Ultra 4xAGP, Win98 SE
(Debating on whether to add the Soundblaster Live to the package or replace the on board sound of the p4 unit...)
Or would I make more parting out?
Are you getting rid of it? IMHO a Tualatin paired with an MB with one ISA slot worth far more than a NetBurst P4 2.8 GHz for retro computing, particularly if the latter is a Northwood (same 130 nm lithography as Tualatin) that burns three times of electricity with minimal performance boost.
If you live in Taiwan I'd be very happy to pick it up in person and "dispose" it for you, free of charge. 😎
Is better to part out a computer IMHO because of shipping. The board+cpu+ram (minus heat sink) can be easily shipped in a small box but a complete computer in a case is not so easy and not worth the hassle for that era machine UNLESS it is a very specific HP, Gateway, etc.
You did not mention the board make and model or CPU speed, that can effect prices widely.
Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun
you have too look at what individual components go for on average cheaper prices to make an assesment. Can't really give a static number you know becasue prices is what somone else is will to pay based on rarity and desirability and price. If the VIA board has ISA slots its worth more. But in the end its just another VIA socket 370 board so unless it is a particuar model that is known for being good than ya. Same goes for the geforce 2 Ultra. Tualatin price is very easy to figure out. If you keep the CPU with the Board and Ram and sell the video card on its own is probably the way to go without knowing more. Gives people a reason to pick your VIA board over the 100 others.
Anyways what others said the Tualatin rig is more desirable, unless your P4 rig is special like has ISA and Rambus or somthing or SBLINK and is some good board, not some typical OEM type board.
dormcat wrote on 2021-10-18, 03:59:IMHO a Tualatin paired with an MB with one ISA slot worth far more than a NetBurst P4 2.8 GHz for retro computing, particularly if the latter is a Northwood (same 130 nm lithography as Tualatin) that burns three times of electricity with minimal performance boost.
TDP of Pentium III 1400S : 32.2W
TDP of a P4-2800 (Northwood, not Prescott) : 68.4W
--> 68.4 / 32.2 = 2.12
At least double the power consumption. For a valid answer, i would measure the system with a power meter anyway.
#1 K6-2/500, #2 Athlon1200, #3 Celeron1000A, #4 A64-3700, #5 P4HT-3200, #6 P4-2800, #7 Am486DX2-66
melbar wrote on 2021-10-18, 04:49:TDP of Pentium III 1400S : 32.2W […]
TDP of Pentium III 1400S : 32.2W
TDP of a P4-2800 (Northwood, not Prescott) : 68.4W
--> 68.4 / 32.2 = 2.12
At least double the power consumption. For a valid answer, i would measure the system with a power meter anyway.
TDP is meant for cooling systems and can be quite arbitrary. NetBurst was horribly inefficient in power consumption compared to Intel P6 microarchitecture and AMD offerings at the time, the only thing going for it was the SSE2 instructions and HT if that P4 CPU supports it.
VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS
Depends. Pentium 4 can be throttled directly for speed sensitive games, while Pentium 3 can't. Tualatin on VIA has easy access to ISA though.
At least double the power consumption.
And about 50% or more faster. Although Tualatin is heavily bottlenecked by front side bus, tied to SDRAM speed.
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
P4 can only be throttle directly if the model of P4 supports speedstep and only to a certain extent becasue all p4 is multiplier locked too except for speed step mulitplier that only go to a certain point. Otherwise you can still throttle it VIA external BUS on Southbridge but you can with Tualatin also. That being said Tualatin is a horrible choice for trying to slow down that way and so is a p4 without speedstep, youre better off with somthing no faster than 700mhz 100mhzfsb. As somthing like a 700mhz P3 can still be throttled via southbridge and FSB multi + disable L2 to DX33 and lower and higher. with CPUSPD.
CpuSpd - A Hardware Based CPU Speed Control Utility for DOS/Win9X Retro Gaming
P4 being Faster than Tualatin, depends on generation. 1st P4s were not. Northwoods were but if somthing really favors the more shallow pipeline of the Tualatin as feeling more snappy its definatly a wash.
Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-10-18, 05:09:TDP is meant for cooling systems and can be quite arbitrary. NetBurst was horribly inefficient in power consumption compared to Intel P6 microarchitecture and AMD offerings at the time, the only thing going for it was the SSE2 instructions and HT if that P4 CPU supports it.
Actually, i have here two finished built system which i have just measured:
1. system
2. system
The Celeron is clocked @ 1400MHz and then it should match the power consumption of the P4S-1400 Tualatin.
Now, i have measured the whole PC with a power meter.
Here are the results:
Pentium 4 - 2800 MHz
IDLE: 80W to 81W
100% LOAD (super pi): 130W to 132W
Celeron (Tualatin) - 1400 MHz
IDLE: 65W to 66W
100% LOAD (super pi): 72W to 74W
Verdict:
Consumption on IDLE is 22.9% higher (factor 1.229).
Consumption on full cpu load is 80.7% higher (factor 1.807).
Fore sure, the speed to energy ratio is much better at tualatin core.
But actually, it is wrong to say you will need 3x times more power...
EDIT:
Sorry , was a typo there in 1. system
#1 K6-2/500, #2 Athlon1200, #3 Celeron1000A, #4 A64-3700, #5 P4HT-3200, #6 P4-2800, #7 Am486DX2-66
Exactly which components we're talking about might make quite a bit of difference in terms of price.
Particularly brand+model of motherboard and GPU are relevant, also which Tualatin it is exactly.
Where you're located is also relevant - somewhere Down Under being at one extreme, Shenzhen at another.
And as for parting vs whole system: that also depends on whether it's a complete brand system (don't part up) or brand-name compontents (probabaly do).
melbar wrote on 2021-10-18, 08:21:But actually, it is wrong to say you will need 3x times more power...
That was dormcat who said that, not me. 😉
VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS
P4 can only be throttle directly if the model of P4 supports speedstep
No, you can trigger thermal throttle, which is a feature of all Netburst CPUs.
CPU Tuning, Throttling
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
Motherboard is a Tyan S2507T
It's a dual processor capable board running a single Tualatin 1.4 GHz.
After playing with it a while I don't know how much of a fan I am of the Via chipset, but after messing with it (a lot) it works well.
AGP 4x and 5 PCI slots, so plenty of real estate.
If you folks could tell me whether this board is worth anything that would be awesome.
To be honest, the more I read the replies the more I want to keep it.
🤣
tomcattech wrote on 2021-10-19, 03:14:Motherboard is a Tyan S2507T […]
Motherboard is a Tyan S2507T
It's a dual processor capable board running a single Tualatin 1.4 GHz.
After playing with it a while I don't know how much of a fan I am of the Via chipset, but after messing with it (a lot) it works well.
AGP 4x and 5 PCI slots, so plenty of real estate.
If you folks could tell me whether this board is worth anything that would be awesome.
To be honest, the more I read the replies the more I want to keep it.
🤣
Pros
Dual socket 370 (Cool but doesn't matter for retro gaming since games only use 1 CPU.)
AGP 4x
Not a terrible board, TYAN did a good job on this one.
Cons
No ISA,
No SBLINK
Not really a con per se but it's VIA, a strike against it in my book.
We have to compare it to another board like a asus P2B-DS to assign a value to it.
P2b-DS
Dual Slot 1
AGP 2.0
Asus considered better than Tyan
Intel Chipset
2 ISA
has sb-link
So its not as valuable as a P2b-DS. It's not even close. Just because its dual CPU doesn't mean much when it lack a lot of features. So you cannot price it like a P2B-DS or price it like any other board with close to similar feature set.
Like when I say dual CPU doesn't mean anything for retro gaming, that means that 2 CPU doesn't automatically make it worth more than a single CPU board. It would if it had all the features like a p2b-ds but it doesn't. So A single CPU board with the the features of a p2b-ds only 1 cpu socket, is worth more than a dual CPU board without them.
A more Fair comparison is comparing your board to an OR840. Neither have ISA, or SBLINK. However the OR840 has Rambus ram and is intel, dual slot 1 is more awesome/cool than dual socket 370, and the or840 is much more rare and semi famous. So your board wouldn't be worth as much as a Or840 even though its similar feature set.
That makes it imo a lower tier dual PIII board, and a lower tier PIII board in general even if using 1 cpu. It's value is to the person at the end of the rainbow that wants a dual tualatin windows NT or Windows 2000 Computer and isn't concerned with DOS compatibility.
Being said its a great board, and I've had hands on experience with it in the past. It's rock solid and fast with 2 CPUs. It's also probably more stable than a pdb-ds.
If you price it at no more than $120 dollars CPU and Ram included and emphasize tested guaranteed to work. it might sell eventually to someone. Also put make and offer, becasue If I wanted it I would low ball probably. I wouldn't pay that but then again I don't want it.
tomcattech wrote on 2021-10-19, 03:14:To be honest, the more I read the replies the more I want to keep it.
🤣
Well figure out how much it will take you to let it go, put a speculative "Buy it Now" listing on eBay for that plus wiggle room and see if you eventually get a taker.
Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.
Not much I'm afraid.
There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉
