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Ethernet and FTP FTW as far as I'm concerned.

Not sure if the 5150 will work with an Etherlink III, but with a decent 8b ISA NIC it definitely will. Then use mTCP for an FTP server that will work with the packet driver for the nick (Crynwr is a good place to start if no vendor-specific packet driver is known) and you're good to go. Any multispeed (10/100/1000) switch is all you need to hook them all up.

3c509b is confirmed to work in 8 bit slots, including those of the 5150

Yes it can be done. An Etherlink III (3c509b) will work on a 5150 with the correct drivers. Check vcfed for drivers and how to do it.

But there are alot of options out there. There are a number of NICs that can work (8bit compatible). Other options like parallel and serial devices. I think in my 5150, if I had to choose between a NIC and compact flash, I would choose compact flash. The 5150 is quite slot limited and you don't need to use the slow NIC all that often. I'll need to play around with it some more to find what is the most convenient config.

Being able to use glacially slow dos lynx ports on a 5150 is kind of neat

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AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-24, 21:20:

Can you tell me if it is possible to connect these 3 machines? can I install an isa card in the two IBM like the Etherlink III and then connect all 3 together to exchange data?

If possible, is it very difficult to set everything up? Or is it better to exchange data via a parallel zip?

tnks

Oh for sure ...

I have a PCjr, a PS/2 model 25, an IBM Portable PC, a Compaq Portable, a 386-40 and various Pentiums all on the network. I use FTP though; you might be able to configure Windows 10, but I hear it is difficult to do if it is even possible. The security requirements have changed quite a bit over the years, but the DOS software has not, so Microsoft style file and print sharing is going to be difficult.

Mike

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-10-25, 00:09:

Being able to use glacially slow dos lynx ports on a 5150 is kind of neat

Heh, I don't remember what telnet is like on a 5150, would one rather do that, or just rig a serial console to a linux box and use lynx on that?

Telnet from a 5150 class machine with an Ethernet adapter is fast. And you can Telnet to Unix machines or Telnet BBSes that are not on your network.

Serial consoles are useful, but most 5150 class machines are going to run at 9600 BPS - fast enough for most users, but much slower than Ethernet. And you still need to have that other machine powered on, while Telnet allows the 5150 class machine to be independent.

from what I understand it is possible to put them on the net but it is not a simple thing, I have some knowledge of the DOS of the times of 486 onwards but I see that I would have many things to learn to connect them together on the network and currently I have little time having work and two kids. It could take months just to get the machines online and this could be frustrating.

Could using an external Parallel zip instead be a solution as I said? using the compact flash swap would force me to keep the computers open all the time as there is no place for an external CF reader on the front and externally I have a few expansion slots in each computer and occupy it only to replicate the IDE-CF on the expansion slots it would be not very clever, don't you think?

Laplink with a parallel cable is often my go-to, it's not as dog slow as serial when you don't have 16550A or a 32bit CPU. I think it actually overlaps in performance with the bottom end of what transfer rates you get with a sucky 8 bit NIC and a heavy protocol on a slow PC/XT (i.e. original 4.77Mhz flavor) ... yah so don't get a sucky NIC get a decent one, but you're kinda stuck with what you can find these days.

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-25, 08:44:

from what I understand it is possible to put them on the net but it is not a simple thing, I have some knowledge of the DOS of the times of 486 onwards but I see that I would have many things to learn to connect them together on the network and currently I have little time having work and two kids. It could take months just to get the machines online and this could be frustrating.

Depends what you call "on the net".

IP connectivity with your home gateway and beyond is simple:
- DOS packet driver for card (3C509B drivers were supplied by 3Com and still widely available, 3C5X9PD.COM is the file you are looking for) - load it (NOT high!) error on my site, it's one of the Intel NIC packet drivers that really doesn't like loading highin AUTOEXEC.BAT with a software interrupt as only required argument (i.e. 3C5X9PD.EXE 0X60)
- a .cfg file for mTCP which only needs the software interrupt for the packet driver for basic functionality (and if it's 0x60, that's in the default template), and if you have 2 or more PCs be sure to give different hostnames.
- a line in AUTOEXEC.BAT: SET MTCPCFG=<path_to_mtcp_cfg_file>
- mTCP tools somewhere in the filesystem.

Run DHCP.EXE and you should get an IP. If that works, try PING.EXE 8.8.8.8

Get response? Then congratulations, you're on the internet!

That shouldn't take months, not even hours. All you need to customize is one line in the config file, the rest can be an idential copy/merge for all the systems you're rolling it out on.

To get FTP working takes a bit more effort, but isn't rocket science either, just follow the mTCP documentation. My tip: run the server on the old computer, so you can run a modern, user-friendly client on the fast system.

Could using an external Parallel zip instead be a solution as I said? using the compact flash swap would force me to keep the computers open all the time as there is no place for an external CF reader on the front and externally I have a few expansion slots in each computer and occupy it only to replicate the IDE-CF on the expansion slots it would be not very clever, don't you think?

This sounds like an extremely cumbersome, complex setup of the kind we had to use in the 1990s because LAN was too expensive and we didn't have mTCP. Looking into whether this would work, I found a VCFED thread where mbrutman (who already posted here) confirmed it would even work on a PCJr, but someone else had trouble with a 5160 and wasn't able to resolve it.

I've never had a problem loading the 3C5X9PD.COM high fwiw

Surely there's a DOS ftp that's like norton commander or dosshell etc. Then all you need is to stick a USB drive with the stuff you want in a modern router and turn on FTP and there you go.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-10-25, 14:00:

I've never had a problem loading the 3C5X9PD.COM high fwiw

Could well be one of the Intel drivers that doesn't like it... in which case I stand corrected.

dionb wrote on 2021-10-25, 13:27:

Depends what you call "on the net". […]
Show full quote

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-25, 08:44:

from what I understand it is possible to put them on the net but it is not a simple thing, I have some knowledge of the DOS of the times of 486 onwards but I see that I would have many things to learn to connect them together on the network and currently I have little time having work and two kids. It could take months just to get the machines online and this could be frustrating.

Depends what you call "on the net".

IP connectivity with your home gateway and beyond is simple:
- DOS packet driver for card (3C509B drivers were supplied by 3Com and still widely available, 3C5X9PD.COM is the file you are looking for) - load it (NOT high!) error on my site, it's one of the Intel NIC packet drivers that really doesn't like loading highin AUTOEXEC.BAT with a software interrupt as only required argument (i.e. 3C5X9PD.EXE 0X60)
- a .cfg file for mTCP which only needs the software interrupt for the packet driver for basic functionality (and if it's 0x60, that's in the default template), and if you have 2 or more PCs be sure to give different hostnames.
- a line in AUTOEXEC.BAT: SET MTCPCFG=<path_to_mtcp_cfg_file>
- mTCP tools somewhere in the filesystem.

Run DHCP.EXE and you should get an IP. If that works, try PING.EXE 8.8.8.8

Get response? Then congratulations, you're on the internet!

That shouldn't take months, not even hours. All you need to customize is one line in the config file, the rest can be an idential copy/merge for all the systems you're rolling it out on.

To get FTP working takes a bit more effort, but isn't rocket science either, just follow the mTCP documentation. My tip: run the server on the old computer, so you can run a modern, user-friendly client on the fast system.

Could using an external Parallel zip instead be a solution as I said? using the compact flash swap would force me to keep the computers open all the time as there is no place for an external CF reader on the front and externally I have a few expansion slots in each computer and occupy it only to replicate the IDE-CF on the expansion slots it would be not very clever, don't you think?

This sounds like an extremely cumbersome, complex setup of the kind we had to use in the 1990s because LAN was too expensive and we didn't have mTCP. Looking into whether this would work, I found a VCFED thread where mbrutman (who already posted here) confirmed it would even work on a PCJr, but someone else had trouble with a 5160 and wasn't able to resolve it.

What the above member posted. It's a piece of piss getting old hardware networked and "on the net" if you know what you are doing,

Plus one for using ftp for file transfers between old and newer kit 😉

dionb wrote on 2021-10-25, 13:27:

I found a VCFED thread where mbrutman (who already posted here) confirmed it would even work on a PCJr, but someone else had trouble with a 5160 and wasn't able to resolve it.

If you are speaking of the 3c509b, it will work on an 8088, like the 5150 or 5160. You just need to make sure to configure the card using software, since it is jumperless. They come set to irq 10 by default. The other thing to be careful of is not use the 3c509 (without the b) because that card is not 8bit compatible. The 3c509b is more common though, and there are other options.

Edit: Sorry, you were speaking of the zip drive. The official drivers do not work since they are 286+, you need to use third party drivers that is binary compatible with the 8088, or swap the cpu.

so everyone advises me to use the lan, ok, I have read the steps you suggested, I did not understand everything but I will try, I ask you here the points that have blocked me. However, I try to count the free slots, because having only 3, 2 of which are shared between pci and isa, one occupied for the sound card I have to check if I have any left. I have two beautiful IBM PC330s which are beautiful to look at but a bit limited as an expansion.

AlessandroB wrote on 2021-10-25, 18:35:

so everyone advises me to use the lan, ok, I have read the steps you suggested, I did not understand everything but I will try, I ask you here the points that have blocked me. However, I try to count the free slots, because having only 3, 2 of which are shared between pci and isa, one occupied for the sound card I have to check if I have any left. I have two beautiful IBM PC330s which are beautiful to look at but a bit limited as an expansion.

The point of vogons is to help and learn something 😉