red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-13, 18:47:

OK, I removed the MGA and tested the same games with the S3 Trio 64V+ and the only game that performs poorly still, is Puzzle Bobble 2X but only at 640x400. At 320x200 it performs beautifully. Get Medieval no longer has slow downs and neither does Captain Claw so the MGA has some real issues there. Guess I'll need to find a replacement ... If only the S3 Trio was the 2MB model because 1MB is not enough to run certain games.

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture quality on the onboard video is superb. Better than any add on card I have tried on the riser (G400 even much newer cards like Radeon 9200 pci) . I don't understand why is ( ramdac or less interference by being integrated on motherboard VS a add on card in a slot??).

I like it so much I bought 2x Em614163A-25 chips going cheap. (256K x 16) to get full 2MB and also got around a 50% speed boost in video bandwidth (64bit with 2mb). These chips are 25ns but the ones on the motherboard are slower 60ns, doesn't matter they still work).
Out of interest, Claw and Get Medieval run smooth in Win95 using the Trio S3 with 2MB and this only on a P133 and 64MB slower FPM RAM. I don't even have any L2 cache at the moment but this is still a great DOS/Win9x machine.
Also there are Mr-Bios images for this motherboard that adds support up to 128GB Hard drives.

Garrett W wrote on 2022-01-15, 22:53:

I decided to try Puzzle Bobble 2x, which is the only version of the game I could find for Windows. This supposedly came out in 1 […]
Show full quote

I decided to try Puzzle Bobble 2x, which is the only version of the game I could find for Windows. This supposedly came out in 1998, but it looks far more likely to have been 2000 or even 2001 judging from the files on the disc and the fact that I could not find an earlier version anywhere. In any case, it's probably the version you have, the readme states the same system requirements as the ones you did.

Anyway, it's a pretty rough port to say the least. I tried it on a similar system with an MMX233, 64MB RAM, Voodoo Banshee, SB16 and Win95 and it runs like crap. It's very choppy,it's definitely not 30FPS or 20FPS, might be 16-17FPS. The audio is also in a very poor state, pretty much all of the sound effects are poorly ripped 11KHz samples. The music is in redbook audio format, but the image mounting utility I used didn't seem to want to play ball here, it sounded decent when I used an external audio player. It is a bizarre port to say the least.
What's funny is I tried the same game on Raine, albeit without audio because it couldn't recognize my sound card, it ran at 60FPS on the same system. I bet that it would run just as well with 22KHz Audio if not 44KHz.

So, this wasn't an issue with any of the videocards, it was the game itself. Just something to keep in mind for another time, always check to see how the game should be running on similar hardware, irrespective of what readme and system requirements claim.

Thank you for going through that effort. I did buy a Riva TNT on Friday from a local guy - because it has brilliant DOS compatibility as well as enough memory to run Windows at full colour at higher resolutions - and it made Puzzle Bobble 2x (indeed my version) FLY. Zero slow down. I think it may be partially because of how compatible the 2D card is with Direct Show. I think that the system requirements probably aim at 320x200 (which should really be default - the game looks identical at 640x480 but runs far worse).

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-15, 23:47:

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture qualit […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-13, 18:47:

OK, I removed the MGA and tested the same games with the S3 Trio 64V+ and the only game that performs poorly still, is Puzzle Bobble 2X but only at 640x400. At 320x200 it performs beautifully. Get Medieval no longer has slow downs and neither does Captain Claw so the MGA has some real issues there. Guess I'll need to find a replacement ... If only the S3 Trio was the 2MB model because 1MB is not enough to run certain games.

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture quality on the onboard video is superb. Better than any add on card I have tried on the riser (G400 even much newer cards like Radeon 9200 pci) . I don't understand why is ( ramdac or less interference by being integrated on motherboard VS a add on card in a slot??).

I like it so much I bought 2x Em614163A-25 chips going cheap. (256K x 16) to get full 2MB and also got around a 50% speed boost in video bandwidth (64bit with 2mb). These chips are 25ns but the ones on the motherboard are slower 60ns, doesn't matter they still work).
Out of interest, Claw and Get Medieval run smooth in Win95 using the Trio S3 with 2MB and this only on a P133 and 64MB slower FPM RAM. I don't even have any L2 cache at the moment but this is still a great DOS/Win9x machine.
Also there are Mr-Bios images for this motherboard that adds support up to 128GB Hard drives.

Do you have any idea where to get those chips? I wanted to buy some too but got lost ... I want to keep that option open in case I need the extra PCI slot now taken by the Riva TNT.

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-16, 23:08:

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-15, 23:47:

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture qualit […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-13, 18:47:

OK, I removed the MGA and tested the same games with the S3 Trio 64V+ and the only game that performs poorly still, is Puzzle Bobble 2X but only at 640x400. At 320x200 it performs beautifully. Get Medieval no longer has slow downs and neither does Captain Claw so the MGA has some real issues there. Guess I'll need to find a replacement ... If only the S3 Trio was the 2MB model because 1MB is not enough to run certain games.

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture quality on the onboard video is superb. Better than any add on card I have tried on the riser (G400 even much newer cards like Radeon 9200 pci) . I don't understand why is ( ramdac or less interference by being integrated on motherboard VS a add on card in a slot??).

I like it so much I bought 2x Em614163A-25 chips going cheap. (256K x 16) to get full 2MB and also got around a 50% speed boost in video bandwidth (64bit with 2mb). These chips are 25ns but the ones on the motherboard are slower 60ns, doesn't matter they still work).
Out of interest, Claw and Get Medieval run smooth in Win95 using the Trio S3 with 2MB and this only on a P133 and 64MB slower FPM RAM. I don't even have any L2 cache at the moment but this is still a great DOS/Win9x machine.
Also there are Mr-Bios images for this motherboard that adds support up to 128GB Hard drives.

Do you have any idea where to get those chips? I wanted to buy some too but got lost ... I want to keep that option open in case I need the extra PCI slot now taken by the Riva TNT.

I'm from the UK, and got those chip locally. I think your from the USA, if so these chips will work
https://www.ebay.com/itm/201652193583?epid=13 … 24AAOSwHoFXu7eI
that is the cheapest I've found ones that are compatible. They are 512KB 50ns SOJ.

If you look at your motherboard, the two soldered video memory chips will have a number after their model #. Normally a - 6 or if you are lucky a - 5, representing 60 or 50ns. As long as you get chips as fast as what is on your board they will work. With faster chips you can also use https://www.geocities.ws/liaor2/myutil/mclk.html to increase memory clock. I have changed my bios to use 70 mhz.

The trio 64 is a bit crippled with only 1MB of memory installed, restricted memory bandwidth.
In DOS I ran some benchmarks and memory bandwidth increased by around 33% with 2MB. Windows much more by around 70% (don't know why it's more in windows, drivers take advantage vs dos??) .

I'm surprised nobody has told you to rummage through your BIOS in search of settings that might affect your PCI video card performance. There are some options that definitely can affect compatibility as well.

PCI/VGA Palette Snooping etc. etc.

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-18, 18:16:

I'm from the UK, and got those chip locally. I think your from the USA, if so these chips will work https://www.ebay.com/itm/201 […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-16, 23:08:

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-15, 23:47:

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture qualit […]
Show full quote

I have a PC-350 (Intel Morrison 430fx motherboard) with S3 TRIO 64V. It only has 1MB video ram but I noticed the picture quality on the onboard video is superb. Better than any add on card I have tried on the riser (G400 even much newer cards like Radeon 9200 pci) . I don't understand why is ( ramdac or less interference by being integrated on motherboard VS a add on card in a slot??).

I like it so much I bought 2x Em614163A-25 chips going cheap. (256K x 16) to get full 2MB and also got around a 50% speed boost in video bandwidth (64bit with 2mb). These chips are 25ns but the ones on the motherboard are slower 60ns, doesn't matter they still work).
Out of interest, Claw and Get Medieval run smooth in Win95 using the Trio S3 with 2MB and this only on a P133 and 64MB slower FPM RAM. I don't even have any L2 cache at the moment but this is still a great DOS/Win9x machine.
Also there are Mr-Bios images for this motherboard that adds support up to 128GB Hard drives.

Do you have any idea where to get those chips? I wanted to buy some too but got lost ... I want to keep that option open in case I need the extra PCI slot now taken by the Riva TNT.

I'm from the UK, and got those chip locally. I think your from the USA, if so these chips will work
https://www.ebay.com/itm/201652193583?epid=13 … 24AAOSwHoFXu7eI
that is the cheapest I've found ones that are compatible. They are 512KB 50ns SOJ.

If you look at your motherboard, the two soldered video memory chips will have a number after their model #. Normally a - 6 or if you are lucky a - 5, representing 60 or 50ns. As long as you get chips as fast as what is on your board they will work. With faster chips you can also use https://www.geocities.ws/liaor2/myutil/mclk.html to increase memory clock. I have changed my bios to use 70 mhz.

The trio 64 is a bit crippled with only 1MB of memory installed, restricted memory bandwidth.
In DOS I ran some benchmarks and memory bandwidth increased by around 33% with 2MB. Windows much more by around 70% (don't know why it's more in windows, drivers take advantage vs dos??) .

Thanks for the info. I'm Belgian actually. The problem is that shipping from the US is incredibly expensive - we pay €15 import cost on top of the eBay sales price so preferably I'd like something from the EU itself. Seems easier said than done - most results are US or Chinese.

EDIT: here are the ones in my PC now - they're 60ns:

leonardo wrote on 2022-01-18, 18:30:

I'm surprised nobody has told you to rummage through your BIOS in search of settings that might affect your PCI video card performance. There are some options that definitely can affect compatibility as well.

PCI/VGA Palette Snooping etc. etc.

Oh I did disable all options that might cause issues - it didn't make a difference.

OK I think I found a EU seller for these chips:

https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/152400238242?has … utorefresh=true

60ns just like the ones in the system. These should work right?

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-18, 19:12:

OK I think I found a EU seller for these chips:

https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/152400238242?has … utorefresh=true

60ns just like the ones in the system. These should work right?

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB)
EM614163A
MT4C16270DJ
KM416C254BJ

If faster ones (faster than 60ns ) are cheaper buy the faster ones.
I didn't know you were in the EU, the ones I got were from
https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/363331097252?has … dMAAOSw901gWSTo
don't know how that works out for postage to belgium.

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-18, 20:00:

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB) EM614163A MT4C16270DJ KM416C254BJ […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-18, 19:12:

OK I think I found a EU seller for these chips:

https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/152400238242?has … utorefresh=true

60ns just like the ones in the system. These should work right?

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB)
EM614163A
MT4C16270DJ
KM416C254BJ

If faster ones (faster than 60ns ) are cheaper buy the faster ones.
I didn't know you were in the EU, the ones I got were from
https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/363331097252?has … dMAAOSw901gWSTo
don't know how that works out for postage to belgium.

The spec sheet I found for the S3 Trio 64V+ says it uses 256kb chips though and the ones on the motherboard now are 256kb chips as well :

https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf/527127/HynixSem … tor/HY514264B/1

So I expect the ones from my link to work?

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-18, 20:16:

The spec sheet I found for the S3 Trio 64V+ says it uses 256kb chips though and the ones on the motherboard now are 256kb chips […]
Show full quote

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-18, 20:00:

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB) EM614163A MT4C16270DJ KM416C254BJ […]
Show full quote

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-18, 19:12:

OK I think I found a EU seller for these chips:

https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/152400238242?has … utorefresh=true

60ns just like the ones in the system. These should work right?

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB)
EM614163A
MT4C16270DJ
KM416C254BJ

If faster ones (faster than 60ns ) are cheaper buy the faster ones.
I didn't know you were in the EU, the ones I got were from
https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/363331097252?has … dMAAOSw901gWSTo
don't know how that works out for postage to belgium.

The spec sheet I found for the S3 Trio 64V+ says it uses 256kb chips though and the ones on the motherboard now are 256kb chips as well :

https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf/527127/HynixSem … tor/HY514264B/1

So I expect the ones from my link to work?

It's a bit confusing, the chips are all 256Kbits x 16 = 4Mbits (divide by 8 to get bytes) = 512KB. Get two and you have the 1MB upgrade.
The ones in your link will work fine, so will all the others I posted. Get the ones you can find cheapest and locally to you.

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-18, 20:27:

red_avatar wrote on 2022-01-18, 20:16:

The spec sheet I found for the S3 Trio 64V+ says it uses 256kb chips though and the ones on the motherboard now are 256kb chips […]
Show full quote

Riikcakirds wrote on 2022-01-18, 20:00:

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB) EM614163A MT4C16270DJ KM416C254BJ […]
Show full quote

Any of the following chips will will work (All are 512KB)
EM614163A
MT4C16270DJ
KM416C254BJ

If faster ones (faster than 60ns ) are cheaper buy the faster ones.
I didn't know you were in the EU, the ones I got were from
https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/363331097252?has … dMAAOSw901gWSTo
don't know how that works out for postage to belgium.

The spec sheet I found for the S3 Trio 64V+ says it uses 256kb chips though and the ones on the motherboard now are 256kb chips as well :

https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf/527127/HynixSem … tor/HY514264B/1

So I expect the ones from my link to work?

It's a bit confusing, the chips are all 256Kbits x 16 = 4Mbits (divide by 8 to get bytes) = 512KB. Get two and you have the 1MB upgrade.
The ones in your link will work fine, so will all the others I posted. Get the ones you can find cheapest and locally to you.

OK cheers! I wasn't sure because it didn't mention EDO, just dynamic memory.