VOGONS


First post, by atom1kk

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Hi,
first before you say why not v2 I want to explain it.
Actually i got a P4 with win 98 for my DOS and windows games. I got this system for mainly a handfull games which a very tricky to get started on my Win10 64bit PC.
All the Idea started kind of a month ago where I have found 2 PCs, a p4 1,6 machine and a P1 200 MMX in the attic from my wife’s parents.
I decided first to go with the P4 since the mainboard could handle win98. So far so good everything is fine. Especially it is great to play DOS games in real DOS without fiddeling everytime with settings or different DOS versions.
But then I was wanted to play DOS games with 3DFX and my Odyssey started.
I read on the internet and here that V2 doesn’t work well with early DOS games like Mechwarrior 2 or Fatal Racing and so on. That’s why I came to the V1.
So my main purpose for the machine are games in Dos and windows games until 1998. They make the most trouble on W10.
All the games after 98 run on my main machine, so my primary target is up to 1998.

Since I do not want to have 3 PCs under my desk I think to ditch the P4 and go to the P1 machine.

So my question is, is the 200mhz cpu enough or shall I go to the P2.
I got the hint that that the V1 card gets trouble with CPUs with more than 100 mhz FSB and also maybe somehow more than 300 MHZ clock.

Theoretically to be on the safe side I should choose the max for the V1, which would be a P2 300 with 66 Mhz FSB and also has support for AGP. Or could I go for the higher CPU.

What do you asssume could handle max the V1.

Or shall stay with the P1? But then I still need a good 2D/3D which has to be direct3d compatible and made for the PCI slot.

So main reason for the V1 is the DOS compatibility and no necessary in performance of V2

Or sell the P1 and buy from that money a P2 board and CPU and RAM, everything else is avaliable, could also keep my GF3. By the way is slot 1 already the SD RAM or still the EDO?

Reply 1 of 11, by Meatball

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Slot 1 will usually have SDRAM, but EDO can be found without too much difficulty. Wikipedia says even FPM is possible on early 440 chipsets.

I say build with what you have, and if it doesn’t meet your liking, look for upgrades.

I find the P1 to be underpowered. A slot 1 266mhz PII will probably be your sweet spot, I am guessing.

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Reply 2 of 11, by Doornkaat

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Hey man, I did one of those posts in the other thread that worried you. Sorry for the confusion.
Firstly V1 is a bit dodgy at times but the vast majority of cards are pretty solid. I have one early Voodoo (out of a total of I think eight V1 cards that I own) that is very picky about other hardware.
There are issues on certain games with (almost) all cards starting somewhere above 400MHz CPU speed. Afaik V1 frame rates basically stagnate somewhere around a 300MHz Pentium II. The card's performance stops scaling proportionally with CPU speed much earlier, so that 400MHz issue should be nothing to worry about.👍
Secondly games you want to play on a Voodoo1 rather than on later 3D hardware will not run significantly better on a 400MHz Pentium II than they do on a 200MHz Pentium MMX imho. Even though it won't squeeze the last bit of performance out of it a 200MHz MMX is a good CPU for a Voodoo Graphics, especially when the system didn't cost you anything like the one you have.👌😃

Edit: Btw. Pentium MMX is a good DOS CPU since it can be slowed down to accomodate most speed sensitive games and still perform well with them. At the same time Pentium IV is good for everything Win9x that does not have speed issues. In combination those two PCs will probably have you set for anything you want to play. If you ever run into an issue with a game you can still try and adapt you setups.
Just trying to cover everything that might ever come up will just lead to mindless hoarding of hardware. Thrust me.😅
This forum is fun but it leads to serious overthinking.😉

Reply 3 of 11, by Doornkaat

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Here's a Tom's Hardware article looking at framerate scaling with different hardware and CPUs. Page 17 looks at the Voodoo Graphics chipset:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/3d-accel … step,51-17.html

Reply 4 of 11, by luk1999

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atom1kk wrote on 2022-01-27, 15:51:

Theoretically to be on the safe side I should choose the max for the V1, which would be a P2 300 with 66 Mhz FSB and also has support for AGP. Or could I go for the higher CPU.
(...)
By the way is slot 1 already the SD RAM or still the EDO?

Most of Slot 1 boards supports SDRAM. There are some early boards based on i440FX that support EDO RAM, but I would rather choose something on i440LX (FSB 66 MHz only) or i440BX (FSB 66/100 and limited 133).

Pentium 4 2400 + ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe + 2 GB RAM + GF FX5700 128 MB AGP + SB Audigy + Tagan TG330-U01 + Win XP SP2
Duron 1000 + Soltek SL-75DRV4 + 256 MB RAM + Voodoo 3 2000 16 MB AGP + FM801 + FSP 400-60PFN + Win 98SE

Reply 5 of 11, by atom1kk

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The plan is with slot 1 to replace the p4. Like i told, the most demanding games which do not run on my main machine demand max 350 mhz. So everything else above runs there. Simce a slot 1 kombination is quite sensible on prices i think i stick to it.

Do the sd rams also have to be paired?

Reply 6 of 11, by Meatball

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atom1kk wrote on 2022-01-27, 17:13:

The plan is with slot 1 to replace the p4. Like i told, the most demanding games which do not run on my main machine demand max 350 mhz. So everything else above runs there. Simce a slot 1 kombination is quite sensible on prices i think i stick to it.

Do the sd rams also have to be paired?

No, a single stick is all you need.

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3dfx 58-55-49-45-35-3-2K/100/2/Fusion/Rush/1/X-24/200SBi/100DB
ATI 75-7200/Rage MAXX-Fury-Ultra-GL-Pro-XL-LT
G400MAX-200/M220/Trio3D/VirgeGX2/DX
Verite V2100/PCX2-1
GLoria Synergy/I/II

Reply 7 of 11, by dionb

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luk1999 wrote on 2022-01-27, 16:56:
atom1kk wrote on 2022-01-27, 15:51:

Theoretically to be on the safe side I should choose the max for the V1, which would be a P2 300 with 66 Mhz FSB and also has support for AGP. Or could I go for the higher CPU.
(...)
By the way is slot 1 already the SD RAM or still the EDO?

Most of Slot 1 boards supports SDRAM. There are some early boards based on i440FX that support EDO RAM, but I would rather choose something on i440LX (FSB 66 MHz only) or i440BX (FSB 66/100 and limited 133).

Actually almost all Slot 1 boards/chipsets support EDO, if you use 168p 3.3V unbuffered DIMMs of it.

The i440FX is unique only in that it doesn't support SDRAM, and generally (but not always) comes with 72p SIMM slots rather than 168p DIMM slots.

Reply 9 of 11, by chinny22

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Meatball wrote on 2022-01-27, 16:21:

I say build with what you have, and if it doesn’t meet your liking, look for upgrades.

This is what I always say as well, it may well be you've no need to upgrade!

For dos your P1 should be fine, it'll be Win9x gaming that suffers. but if your after 1 to rule them all
I find my P3 600 plays 99% of my dos games fine and all my 9x era, any that don't are really XP era GTA3 for example.

Reply 10 of 11, by Meatball

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chinny22 wrote on 2022-01-28, 13:44:
Meatball wrote on 2022-01-27, 16:21:

I say build with what you have, and if it doesn’t meet your liking, look for upgrades.

For dos your P1 should be fine, it'll be Win9x gaming that suffers. but if your after 1 to rule them all
I find my P3 600 plays 99% of my dos games fine and all my 9x era, any that don't are really XP era GTA3 for example.

2nd this.

And usually there are "classic" re-releases or plucky freelance coders which provide fixes to problematic DOS games (like Descent).

The trouble comes if a person wants to be as "pure" as possible. Use the CD/Floppy, no non-factory fixes, and so on. Then you're going to need multiple systems. (Not that there's anything wrong with this...)

2080Ti
TitanXp/980Ti/260/7950GT-GX2/6800U/6200/5950U/4200/GF3-2/TNT1-2
3dfx 58-55-49-45-35-3-2K/100/2/Fusion/Rush/1/X-24/200SBi/100DB
ATI 75-7200/Rage MAXX-Fury-Ultra-GL-Pro-XL-LT
G400MAX-200/M220/Trio3D/VirgeGX2/DX
Verite V2100/PCX2-1
GLoria Synergy/I/II

Reply 11 of 11, by atom1kk

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I thought again about this idea, but at the end it makes no sense to do it for a handfull of games. I think for the Glide windows games i buy a FX card an use the Nglide wrapper and for DOS the GLide plugin for Dosbox. I read about the both wrapper and seems to be a good solution. So I can keep my P4