VOGONS


Cyrix/ST/IBM Aiming for the stars!

Topic actions

Reply 20 of 98, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:25:
Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the […]
Show full quote

Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the almost impossible to find 433gp).

That's the performance difference at 250mhz clock:
Immagine.png

The configuration was slightly different compared to the 200 mhz, but somewhat comparable.

At 200 mhz the difference (quake 320 resolution) was 1,7 fps, while at 250 mhz it was 2,2!
So apparently going up with clock increase the performance gap.

Yeah, we’re overclockers here. We care about max stable frequency! :p

Yeah, I’m still looking for a 433gp. There are two models. I may have mentioned. a MII and a MIIv which as far as I can tell are actually exactly the same thing 🤣 aside from the extra letter on the label. But I suppose it could be said that the 400gp is also basically the same thing 🤣

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 21 of 98, by Nemo1985

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:53:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:25:
Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the […]
Show full quote

Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the almost impossible to find 433gp).

That's the performance difference at 250mhz clock:
Immagine.png

The configuration was slightly different compared to the 200 mhz, but somewhat comparable.

At 200 mhz the difference (quake 320 resolution) was 1,7 fps, while at 250 mhz it was 2,2!
So apparently going up with clock increase the performance gap.

Yeah, we’re overclockers here. We care about max stable frequency! :p

Yeah, I’m still looking for a 433gp. There are two models. I may have mentioned. a MII and a MIIv which as far as I can tell are actually exactly the same thing 🤣 aside from the extra letter on the label. But I suppose it could be said that the 400gp is also basically the same thing 🤣

I read around that the v was used to mark the models for laptops (this time I have the source: https://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewtopic.php … er=asc&start=15)
It would be interesting to check if there is, as always with cyrix, any subtle difference between the 2 versions.

Another interesting link: https://www.cpushack.com/CyrixID.html

Reply 22 of 98, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 03:00:
I read around that the v was used to mark the models for laptops (this time I have the source: https://www.cpu-world.com/forum/v […]
Show full quote
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:53:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:25:
Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the […]
Show full quote

Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the almost impossible to find 433gp).

That's the performance difference at 250mhz clock:
Immagine.png

The configuration was slightly different compared to the 200 mhz, but somewhat comparable.

At 200 mhz the difference (quake 320 resolution) was 1,7 fps, while at 250 mhz it was 2,2!
So apparently going up with clock increase the performance gap.

Yeah, we’re overclockers here. We care about max stable frequency! :p

Yeah, I’m still looking for a 433gp. There are two models. I may have mentioned. a MII and a MIIv which as far as I can tell are actually exactly the same thing 🤣 aside from the extra letter on the label. But I suppose it could be said that the 400gp is also basically the same thing 🤣

I read around that the v was used to mark the models for laptops (this time I have the source: https://www.cpu-world.com/forum/viewtopic.php … er=asc&start=15)
It would be interesting to check if there is, as always with cyrix, any subtle difference between the 2 versions.

Another interesting link: https://www.cpushack.com/CyrixID.html

Perhaps the laptop versions are rated at higher maximum temps?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 23 of 98, by BitWrangler

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 03:00:

Another interesting link: https://www.cpushack.com/CyrixID.html

According to the IBM thermal design doc (pulled mine from the CPU docs at Ardent Tool) the F stepping runs a few watts cooler than previous steppings. IBM weren't still "in" by the time they went to 0.25 micron were they? I'm wondering if that's where the assumption or confirmation of a 0.30 micron shrink came from.

Anyhoo, if you wanna pre-sort your silicon lottery tickets, the F stepping is the one to look for. My IBM PR266 is an F, w00t I guess.

edit: Found a pic of the 366.. v7sp8910bd ... that seems to be National Semi, Made in South Portland Maine, 0.25 micron, 1999, week 10, (Hey, Happy Birthday 366GP) that one is a 2.9V 2.5x100 marked CPU and did ~290Mhz and that's as much as the board let it I think.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 24 of 98, by Nemo1985

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-12, 04:28:
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 03:00:

Another interesting link: https://www.cpushack.com/CyrixID.html

According to the IBM thermal design doc (pulled mine from the CPU docs at Ardent Tool) the F stepping runs a few watts cooler than previous steppings. IBM weren't still "in" by the time they went to 0.25 micron were they? I'm wondering if that's where the assumption or confirmation of a 0.30 micron shrink came from.

That's only for the ibm right? I have most of them labelled as cyrix and I can't find the clue.
My ibm pr 300 with black top is rev F.

Reply 25 of 98, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

The cyrix multiplier thread from earlier in this thread has been updated with 366 multis
Re: Cyrix 400gp multiplier settings

I’m playin with my 366gp chips here.

So far it’s not the greatest..

I barely got this screenshot before it froze

DEE48B20-7A5D-44F4-A0DE-9DFFF9266B2C.jpeg
Filename
DEE48B20-7A5D-44F4-A0DE-9DFFF9266B2C.jpeg
File size
1.98 MiB
Views
1016 views
File license
Public domain

Yeah, I’m kinda struggling to get much more than stock clocks out of this thing. The multi combos I have at my disposal either gain me only a few mhz core but sacrifice as much on thr fsb nearly or stock clock and 100fsb.

It seems like maybe 275 or 266 or 280mhz core might work but I don’t really have a good way to get there and still have a nice fsb speed

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 26 of 98, by BitWrangler

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

They really like overkill cooling, don't stick a P54 sized heatsink on it, stick a Duron sized heatsink on it.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 27 of 98, by Necrodude

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-10, 06:42:
It’s about time Cyrix/ST/IBM got some benchmark competition love, […]
Show full quote

It’s about time Cyrix/ST/IBM got some benchmark competition love,

Let’s see those 3dmark 2000 and 99 scores!

Feel free to drop any other benchmarks you feel are appropriate also.

I’ll be using a 400gp for my entries.

Only rules are, default benchmark settings, driver tweaks are allowed, so long as you tell us about them so we can use them :p! Overclocking is allowed, any gpu, any mobo, must have a sound card, must be a cyrix mII 433 or prior (none of that via stuff) ST and IBM also count as okay. (Same chip)

Awesome initiative! Love it!

Reply 28 of 98, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-12, 05:53:

They really like overkill cooling, don't stick a P54 sized heatsink on it, stick a Duron sized heatsink on it.

got a big ole 370 copper on it.

Necrodude wrote on 2022-03-12, 07:19:
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-10, 06:42:
It’s about time Cyrix/ST/IBM got some benchmark competition love, […]
Show full quote

It’s about time Cyrix/ST/IBM got some benchmark competition love,

Let’s see those 3dmark 2000 and 99 scores!

Feel free to drop any other benchmarks you feel are appropriate also.

I’ll be using a 400gp for my entries.

Only rules are, default benchmark settings, driver tweaks are allowed, so long as you tell us about them so we can use them :p! Overclocking is allowed, any gpu, any mobo, must have a sound card, must be a cyrix mII 433 or prior (none of that via stuff) ST and IBM also count as okay. (Same chip)

Awesome initiative! Love it!

Thx 😀

Update: 366gp at 100x2.5
Only got 1200-1300 in 3dmark 2000

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 29 of 98, by heckyeah

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 01:56:

You'd better get this 366 rated v2.9, quite rare and interesting, if you ask me.
The v2.9 is faster clock to clock compared to v2.2.

Here's in case you're not joking (I can't tell):

...a little open secret. Chips over 333gp all run at 250mhz or higher and it's all about the FSB at that point. Cyrix literally has two SKUs that both run at 3x83.3 (250mhz) but with names 333GP and 350GP. It's all made up.

The 2.2v chips are objectively better regardless of GP-rating.

Reply 30 of 98, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
heckyeah wrote on 2022-03-12, 08:51:
Here's in case you're not joking (I can't tell): […]
Show full quote
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 01:56:

You'd better get this 366 rated v2.9, quite rare and interesting, if you ask me.
The v2.9 is faster clock to clock compared to v2.2.

Here's in case you're not joking (I can't tell):

...a little open secret. Chips over 333gp all run at 250mhz or higher and it's all about the FSB at that point. Cyrix literally has two SKUs that both run at 3x83.3 (250mhz) but with names 333GP and 350GP. It's all made up.

The 2.2v chips are objectively better regardless of GP-rating.

Think there will be much difference between the max oc of the 300gp 2.2v and the 400gp 2.2v
🤔

Anyone happen to know the 2.2v oc record on air?

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 31 of 98, by heckyeah

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-12, 09:08:
Think there will be much difference between the max oc of the 300gp 2.2v and the 400gp 2.2v 🤔 […]
Show full quote
heckyeah wrote on 2022-03-12, 08:51:
Here's in case you're not joking (I can't tell): […]
Show full quote
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 01:56:

You'd better get this 366 rated v2.9, quite rare and interesting, if you ask me.
The v2.9 is faster clock to clock compared to v2.2.

Here's in case you're not joking (I can't tell):

...a little open secret. Chips over 333gp all run at 250mhz or higher and it's all about the FSB at that point. Cyrix literally has two SKUs that both run at 3x83.3 (250mhz) but with names 333GP and 350GP. It's all made up.

The 2.2v chips are objectively better regardless of GP-rating.

Think there will be much difference between the max oc of the 300gp 2.2v and the 400gp 2.2v
🤔

Anyone happen to know the 2.2v oc record on air?

No idea but I'm going to assume that they did have to bin heavily to get to 300mhz at 2.2v

e. I'd be extremely surprised if I can't get that 2.2v 300gp to 250mhz at least at the same voltage.

Reply 32 of 98, by Imperious

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I did some tests with my 333gp (2.2v) and the same rig I've used for the P233mmx stars and K6-2/K6-3 Stars threads.

Attachments

Atari 2600, TI994a, Vic20, c64, ZX Spectrum 128, Amstrad CPC464, Atari 65XE, Commodore Plus/4, Amiga 500
PC's from XT 8088, 486, Pentium MMX, K6, Athlon, P3, P4, 775, to current Ryzen 5600x.

Reply 33 of 98, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Ah interesting! A flip chip!

For those of you that don’t know (if they are all like mine) that IHS is actually balanced on the die with no corner support 🤣.

So were you not able to get to 350mhz?

What parts are you using in that system?

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 34 of 98, by Imperious

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I did those tests a while back, May last year. I seem to remember trying higher speeds but can't remember whether I tried over 2.3v or not. You are correct about the heatsink, no corner support. This chip was brand new from that China Zoe Ebay seller. I also got a Rise iDragon cpu of them, must give that a try sometime.
This is Epox MVP3G5 with Gf3 ti200.

The best overclocker as far as IBM/Cyrix chips I have tried is the 6x86mx pr166, it did 200mhz no problems. For some reason though all these chips give random lockups on this board, it's a lot more stable with Pentium mmx and AMD K6 series.

Atari 2600, TI994a, Vic20, c64, ZX Spectrum 128, Amstrad CPC464, Atari 65XE, Commodore Plus/4, Amiga 500
PC's from XT 8088, 486, Pentium MMX, K6, Athlon, P3, P4, 775, to current Ryzen 5600x.

Reply 35 of 98, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Imperious wrote on 2022-03-12, 10:47:

I did those tests a while back, May last year. I seem to remember trying higher speeds but can't remember whether I tried over 2.3v or not. You are correct about the heatsink, no corner support. This chip was brand new from that China Zoe Ebay seller. I also got a Rise iDragon cpu of them, must give that a try sometime.
This is Epox MVP3G5 with Gf3 ti200.

The best overclocker as far as IBM/Cyrix chips I have tried is the 6x86mx pr166, it did 200mhz no problems. For some reason though all these chips give random lockups on this board, it's a lot more stable with Pentium mmx and AMD K6 series.

Psst… *make a rise cpu aiming for the stars thread* 🤫

The cyrix is kinda interesting with overclocking. Seems like with a lot of other mfg chips you can figure out if they are stable by doing a super pi run or a 3d mark run. But the cyrix, give it a hour or so and all of a sudden it crashes while playing halo 🤣.

Bump the voltage, or lower the clock and all a sudden no more issue.

The 2.2v chips from my looking around seem to be 180nm and if they are anything like the k6-3+ chips it’s prob best to keep em 2.4v or under. 2.4 was as high as I was willing to take mine at 350mhz. Which basically got it stable enough for a halo crash after a while but would pass benchmarks. As described above.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 36 of 98, by 0xCats

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:25:
Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the […]
Show full quote

Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the almost impossible to find 433gp).

That's the performance difference at 250mhz clock:
Immagine.png

The configuration was slightly different compared to the 200 mhz, but somewhat comparable.

At 200 mhz the difference (quake 320 resolution) was 1,7 fps, while at 250 mhz it was 2,2!
So apparently going up with clock increase the performance gap.

Whatever performance difference you are finding here is margin of error.

I know this because the Cyrix M2 2.9V and the M2 2.2V chip are the same electrical design.
The 2.2V chip is simply manufactured on a new node (die shrink).
The fact they are not scoring the same in your results, and that you have no error-bars or margins for the test results provided means you have got a testing methodology flaw.

There are two types of devices, those that know they've been hacked and those that don't yet know they're going to be hacked.

Reply 37 of 98, by Nemo1985

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
0xCats wrote on 2022-03-12, 11:32:
Whatever performance difference you are finding here is margin of error. […]
Show full quote
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:25:
Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the […]
Show full quote

Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the almost impossible to find 433gp).

That's the performance difference at 250mhz clock:
Immagine.png

The configuration was slightly different compared to the 200 mhz, but somewhat comparable.

At 200 mhz the difference (quake 320 resolution) was 1,7 fps, while at 250 mhz it was 2,2!
So apparently going up with clock increase the performance gap.

Whatever performance difference you are finding here is margin of error.

I know this because the Cyrix M2 2.9V and the M2 2.2V chip are the same electrical design.
The 2.2V chip is simply manufactured on a new node (die shrink).
The fact they are not scoring the same in your results, and that you have no error-bars or margins for the test results provided means you have got a testing methodology flaw.

If you say so.
To my experience the dos tests are quite repetible with a margin of error (in quake) of 0,1.
But if you say that my tests have a meth0dology flaw so be it, let's see if anyone else can refute my findings with other numbers 😉

Reply 38 of 98, by feipoa

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-12, 02:25:
Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the […]
Show full quote

Probably, still the higher v2.9 frequency is 250 mhz (little to none overclocking chance), while the v2.2 is 285 (or 300 for the almost impossible to find 433gp).

That's the performance difference at 250mhz clock:
Immagine.png

The configuration was slightly different compared to the 200 mhz, but somewhat comparable.

At 200 mhz the difference (quake 320 resolution) was 1,7 fps, while at 250 mhz it was 2,2!
So apparently going up with clock increase the performance gap.

I was surprised to see the difference in performance between the 2.9 V and the 2.2 V at the same operating frequency. I don't believe I tested for this condition. I wonder what sacrifice Cyrix made in the 2.2 V design. If both were tested on the same motherboard and under the same software conditions, I don't think the error is within the margins because all tests demonstrated a performance advantage to the 2.9 V piece.

From my experience, the MII-400GP's should all do 333 MHz relatively well. At 350 MHz, some tests will fail. While I have an MII-433GP, I haven't stress tested it at 350 MHz and probably don't want to due to rarity of product. I tested a few MII-333GP 2.2V/4x chips at 300 MHz and they all did well. I don't think I tested them at 333 MHz. Note that at 333 MHz, you've only got about the gaming performance of a Pentium MMX 250 - PII266, depending on the game.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 39 of 98, by Anonymous Coward

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-12, 04:28:

IBM weren't still "in" by the time they went to 0.25 micron were they?

Those silver top Cyrix MIIs were all manufactured by IBM. They're 2.2V and .18 micron. Officially they shouldn't exist, but for some reason they do.
I had never really noticed them in the past, but recently a whole bunch started showing up online.

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium