VOGONS


IDE To SATA SSD Win 98

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First post, by vkcpolice

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Hi all hope everyone is doing well.
ive got a question on using ide to sata converters for vintage computers.
currently trying to get a kingston 60gb ssd in my win 98 build however the adapter just refuses to even get recognized in the bios and normally causes the computer to freeze at post.
i have a heap of bigger old sata drives like 250gb 500gb 1tb ect. the computer picks these up without issue.
this adapter is just one of the generic ones of ebay.
are there only certain ssd drives that they will recognize?
this is obliviously some sort of compatibility issue with the drive and adapter and not the computers bios as it does pick up other drives.
any help would be great cheers

Reply 2 of 29, by vkcpolice

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Thx for that info that really sucks if that is the case.
please see pics i have tried 2 different adapters
the ssd i got was really old one of the first ssds when they first came out so it might be sata 1

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Reply 4 of 29, by chiveicrook

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These generic converters sometimes have issues. Try finding a branded converter with marvell controller (most cheap converters use JMicron chips which are a bit fussy). Alternatively, try to find cheap controller with master/slave jumper as these usually work better. Can't see it on the photos, did any of yours come with a jumper?

EDIT:
For example Renkforce RF-4886682 has Marvell chip and also is compatible with sata CD/DVDs

EDIT2:
Renkforce is probably the same as Delock, just a rebrand

Reply 5 of 29, by vkcpolice

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Hi thx for that I will try and see if I can find any for sale. I also read something about ssd in old computers wear out as win 98 has no trim firmware for ssd
Edit: this is the only one I can find on eBay https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Delock-Converter- … -154756-20017-0 And it looks identical to the one I posted in the photo.
I can't seem to match up the part numbers as mine has a different number but a symbol of a D on the board? I don't want to buy it if it's what I already have

Reply 6 of 29, by chiveicrook

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The one you posted seems the same as the one you have.

I meant this kind and its clones: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/353374714239
But dear lord, why is it so expensive down under?

EDIT:
Anyway, try to find the cheapest one with master/slave jumper and maybe it'll be enough 😀

Last edited by chiveicrook on 2022-03-18, 15:46. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 8 of 29, by DosFreak

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For my laptops I use:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW
or
https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-L … e/dp/B01GRMUQRG

Not ideal but you could probably use a 2.5 to 3.5 converter on these if you wanted.
Nice thing about msata is you can easily find smaller size drives that aren't ancient.

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Reply 9 of 29, by darry

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Sunoo wrote on 2022-03-18, 12:59:

I’ve found some modern SSDs have started dropping support for SATA I, and all the adapters I’ve come across only speak SATA I.

Can you share some examples of SATA SSDs that do not work with SATA 1 controllers ?

The closest to this that I have seen so far is some (all ?) VIA SATA 1 controllers not working with >SATA 1 capable drives. The problem in that case is the controller, as the drives themselves work fine with other SATA 1 controllers (Intel, Silicon Image, etc) .

Reply 10 of 29, by darry

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As much as feel a bit pompous quoting myself, I do believe these posts and the threads they are taken from should give an idea as to what can be expected in at least some IDE to SATA scenarios (with HDDs and/or SSDs)

Re: Is worth upgrading to an SSD for Retro PC Builds

darry wrote on 2021-02-03, 05:41:
I recommend a SATA SSD and either a Marvell or Jmicron based IDE to SATA adapter or a Promise SATA (check for Windows 98 compat […]
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I recommend a SATA SSD and either a Marvell or Jmicron based IDE to SATA adapter or a Promise SATA (check for Windows 98 compatibility) or IDE (most are Windows 9x compatible) controller and a Marvell or Jmicron based IDE to SATA adapter (if using an IDE Promise controller). You could also use a SIL3114 based PCI SATA controller .

If you want TRIM support under DOS, the SIL3114 will not work . See Re: Small capacity SSD PATA/SATA benchmarks (Marvell and Jmicron based IDE to SATA converters do pass TRIM commands, as long as the controller does, which the Promise Ultra133 TX2 and ICH2 do ).

If your motherboard has an ICH4 IDE controller, you are better off considering a Marvell based IDE to SATA adapter . See mSATA to IDE Trouble

Finally, the utility I use to TRIM under DOS (Windows 98 SE DOS 7.1) is rloew's TRIM utility . http://lonecrusader.x10host.com/rloew/trim.html

EDIT: If you want to use TRIM under DOS, be careful about what you use to partition your SSD (avoid FreeDOS Fdisk). See Corruption issue when using rloew's TRIM.EXE (TRIM utility for DOS) with FreeDOS FDISK 1.2.1/1.3.1 partitioned DISK

Re: Gigabyte 6bxc with PCI SATA HBA

darry wrote on 2020-11-21, 17:16:
My experience with SIL3114 based cards has been good, both functionally and compatibility-wise, in 440BX boards (Asus P3B-F and […]
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My experience with SIL3114 based cards has been good, both functionally and compatibility-wise, in 440BX boards (Asus P3B-F and Biostar M6TBD OEM) .

On a board of such vintage, because of LBA issues, I too prefer using either a PCI SATA controller or a PCI IDE controller that works well with IDE to SATA converters (Promise Ultra133 and JM20330 works well together, but not on my P3B-F).

IDE to SATA adapter compatibility varies widely .

The two best ones are, IMHO, those based on
- Marvell 88SA8052 (rather expensive and harder to find but reported as working on Intel ICH4 and Via 686B IDE controllers)
- Jmicron JM20330 (inexpensive and easy to find, but has issues on Intel ICH4 and Via 686B IDE controllers, works fine on Promise Ultra133 and can work fine on ICH2, depending on driver)

I have never tested either of those in DMA mode on a 440BX's 82371EB (PIIX4E). I have done limited testing with a JM20330 in such a setup, but only in PIO mode under DOS . It did seem to work in that scenario .

See mSATA to IDE Trouble

EDIT : See also Adding XT-IDE option ROM to Asus P3B-F BIOS [Thanks to DenizOezmen, it actually works!!!] for my experience with PIIX4E IDE controller and JMicron and Marvell IDE to SATA converters (in context of using an XTIDE BIOS, so may not be representative of use without XTIDE) .

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-03-19, 21:52. Edited 4 times in total.

Reply 11 of 29, by weedeewee

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DosFreak wrote on 2022-03-18, 16:07:
For my laptops I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW or https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-L … e/dp/B01GR […]
Show full quote

For my laptops I use:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW
or
https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-L … e/dp/B01GRMUQRG

Not ideal but you could probably use a 2.5 to 3.5 converter on these if you wanted.
Nice thing about msata is you can easily find smaller size drives that aren't ancient.

Any idea which controller chip is used on those ?

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Reply 12 of 29, by darry

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weedeewee wrote on 2022-03-18, 18:01:
DosFreak wrote on 2022-03-18, 16:07:
For my laptops I use: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW or https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-L … e/dp/B01GR […]
Show full quote

For my laptops I use:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW
or
https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-L … e/dp/B01GRMUQRG

Not ideal but you could probably use a 2.5 to 3.5 converter on these if you wanted.
Nice thing about msata is you can easily find smaller size drives that aren't ancient.

Any idea which controller chip is used on those ?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW?th=1 --> Marvell 88SA8052

https://www.amazon.com/mSATA-44pin-Notebook-L … e/dp/B01GRMUQRG --> JMicron JM20330

Reply 13 of 29, by mothergoose729

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I use this exact SSD
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-120GB-Solid-S … b0-eeda4dea34d6

With this exact adapter
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Drive-Opt … ps%2C118&sr=8-5

I haven't used it on socket 7 but I have used it on just about everything else more modern that doesn't already support SATA natively.

Reply 14 of 29, by weedeewee

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darry wrote on 2022-03-18, 18:06:

Cheers !

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Reply 15 of 29, by darry

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2022-03-18, 18:48:
I use this exact SSD https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-120GB-Solid-S … b0-eeda4dea34d6 […]
Show full quote

I use this exact SSD
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-120GB-Solid-S … b0-eeda4dea34d6

With this exact adapter
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Drive-Opt … ps%2C118&sr=8-5

I haven't used it on socket 7 but I have used it on just about everything else more modern that doesn't already support SATA natively.

The adapter looks to be using a Marvell chip, which is probably the main reason why it works well .

Reply 16 of 29, by Jo22

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vkcpolice wrote on 2022-03-18, 13:05:

Thx for that info that really sucks if that is the case.
please see pics i have tried 2 different adapters
the ssd i got was really old one of the first ssds when they first came out so it might be sata 1

A KingSpec SSD (Edit: Kingston) ! I believe I had a 16GB version of it in the XP/7 days.
The SSDs was unusable slow in XP, but worked fine in Windows 7.
Not sure why. Alignment was fine, since I used the Windows 7 DVD for creating the NTFS partition.
Perhaps Windows 7 used TRIM through the MS IDE driver?

Edit: Never mind. It just came to mind.
This is a 60GB version, so it's more recent. Maybe it gets along just fine with Win98.

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Reply 18 of 29, by darry

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Sunoo wrote on 2022-03-18, 21:32:
darry wrote on 2022-03-18, 17:47:

Can you share some examples of SATA SSDs that do not work with SATA 1 controllers ?

PNY, for one: https://pnysupport.freshdesk.com/support/solu … ll-my-ssd-work-

IMHO, that reads more like "we don't support it and don't care if it doesn't work ( likely because it is not being tested anymore)" rather than "we are explicitly and intentionally preventing it from working".

EDIT : Or if this is accurate, even earlier PNY drives are not SATA 1 capable . This is interesting . I wonder if this due to some newer controller ICs no longer being SATA 1 capable, a design choice by PNY ( or whoever the ODM is) to save cost/complexity, an explicit firmware lockout or some other reason.

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Reply 19 of 29, by leonardo

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vkcpolice wrote on 2022-03-18, 12:41:
Hi all hope everyone is doing well. ive got a question on using ide to sata converters for vintage computers. currently trying t […]
Show full quote

Hi all hope everyone is doing well.
ive got a question on using ide to sata converters for vintage computers.
currently trying to get a kingston 60gb ssd in my win 98 build however the adapter just refuses to even get recognized in the bios and normally causes the computer to freeze at post.
i have a heap of bigger old sata drives like 250gb 500gb 1tb ect. the computer picks these up without issue.
this adapter is just one of the generic ones of ebay.
are there only certain ssd drives that they will recognize?
this is obliviously some sort of compatibility issue with the drive and adapter and not the computers bios as it does pick up other drives.
any help would be great cheers

Not all adapters are created equal. I recall having success with Jmicron 20330 controller-based ones. Also something to note: these older computers require you to set the devices in either Master- or Slave-mode and not all the adapters will allow you to do that. The better ones have a jumper that allows you to set Master/Slave.

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