VOGONS


Reply 140 of 249, by Joseph_Joestar

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bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-26, 18:11:

And yea, the CPU-z version I'm using wont show the actual CPU frequency (notised after uploading the vid) but its legit.

Try CPU-Z Vintage Edition (scroll further down on their download page).

It works great on Win98 and has improved detection routines for older CPUs.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 141 of 249, by Necrodude

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bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-26, 18:11:
So after quite a lot of testing I have concluded that once you hit a certain GPU level and certain settings in the game the GPU […]
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So after quite a lot of testing I have concluded that once you hit a certain GPU level and certain settings in the game the GPU type just will not matter anymore.
Q3A seems to be 100% (or very near) CPU/mem speed limited.
I noticed this when I was playing around with my stack of GF2 MX's (they manage 100MHz AGP bus).
Overclocking them gave ZERO extra performance.
And chucking in a GF2-U for the lols showed the same thing.

Now its certainly possible that you still need a GeForce class graphics card and I didn't test with any TNT era cards.

But it seems like this is a test of finding a combination of bus-speeds, memory timings, drivers and what sound card that steals the least amount of performance =)

Anyways I'm throwing down this gauntlet:

https://youtu.be/BtJpZZfmrU4

The hardware used is in the comment.
No HW secrets from me.
And its far from fully tweaked.
And yea, the CPU-z version I'm using wont show the actual CPU frequency (notised after uploading the vid) but its legit.

Nice score! 😀 That was way faster then the last submission! 😀

But...
If you want that score to count in the competition, and that your score will be added to our leaderboard you will need to do a submisssion to us. I will repost the info right here:

"All tweaks, hacks, tuning. Must be explained to us.
All drivers, tools, plugins. Must be explained to us.
All cfg:s, dll:s, exe:s, texturepacks/custom pak files must be submitted to us.
We want to know your computers specifications. CPU/GPU/motherboard/graphics card/ram speed.
We want to know how much you overclocked it, what you overclocked. And so on.
We want to know everything! 🙂

To submit to the competition, download the SubmissionTemplate from our ftp. Put this in your regular File Explorer:
ftp://braindrainlan.sytes.net:21005/SubmissionTemplate/
Copy SubmissionTemplate.zip to your computer.

When you are done with the template, rename it to your VOGONS nick name and send it to our submissionFPT.
Host: ftp://braindrainlan.sytes.net:21005
Username: bdsubmissions Password: quake32themax.
Notice that the PORT is 21005. I usally use Filezilla so here is a picture of the settings.

zl4rn3Q.png

You wont see any files on the submissionFTP even when you send over your version of the Template. There will also be a couple of error messages beacuse your FTP-client will try to list files, but you dont have that privilege. Let us know when you submitted so we can check that nothing is corrupted or broke."

Uploading a video on YT like you did is perfectly fine. 😀
But we prefer if you also submit a video in the submission file.
In the video we want to see the following:
Cpu-z and and the devicemanager or similiar program that shows the graphic card.
Then we want to see at least three benchmark runs.
After the runs are completed we want you to connect to our Quake3 server
To connect type:
"Connect braindrainlan.sytes.net" we just need to see that you can play online with us.
We also need to see some fotage from the inside of your computer. Exactly like you did. That was perfect 😀

Here is a example video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9QKmeXTqtk

We have two reasons why we want to have all the tweaks sent to us.
First we need to validate the tweaks. We need to see that it is working. Im giving away a graphic card from my personal stash. So I want to be sure that the submission is legit.
Second. We are working on "speed pak/patch" for Quake3 that will be published after the contest is over. We can call it "Fast Quake3"

So this competition has a dual purpose. First it should be a fun thing to do. And you can win stuff!! 😀
Second. I will share the best stuff to those who are interested.

Edit:
I will make a small edit to the first post about the requirements on the video

Reply 142 of 249, by Necrodude

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Current Rankings
#1 mwd with 156,9 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuN6o6HHCY
Dell XPS B866
Intel 820 Chipset
Pentium 3 @ 866MHz (133MHz FSB)
1GB (2x512mb) RDRAM 800
TNT2 M64 AGP (OEM)
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz PCI Sound Card
Windows 98SE

#2 XTRINO 104.7fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoQw3HfdPVQ
Cpu: Intel Pentium 3 866mhz
GPU: Riva tnt2 Ultra (Compaq it seems)
Motherboard: Intel D815eea2
RAM: 384mb

#3 JizzMasta 46 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRsaXEaYkb0

Cpu: K6-3+ @616mhz
128mb PC133 SDRAM
Nvidia Geforce 256 SDR 32mb
ASUS P5B rev 1.04 motherboard
Creative Soundblaster Audigy
Intelregistered PRO/1000 GT Network Card

Reply 143 of 249, by stef80

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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-28, 07:44:
Current Rankings #1 mwd with 156,9 fps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuN6o6HHCY Dell XPS B866 Intel 820 Chipset Pentium 3 @ 8 […]
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Current Rankings
#1 mwd with 156,9 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuN6o6HHCY
Dell XPS B866
Intel 820 Chipset
Pentium 3 @ 866MHz (133MHz FSB)
1GB (2x512mb) RDRAM 800
TNT2 M64 AGP (OEM)
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz PCI Sound Card
Windows 98SE

Is this for real? Where are the textures??

Reply 144 of 249, by Necrodude

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stef80 wrote on 2022-04-28, 08:02:
Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-28, 07:44:
Current Rankings #1 mwd with 156,9 fps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuN6o6HHCY Dell XPS B866 Intel 820 Chipset Pentium 3 @ 8 […]
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Current Rankings
#1 mwd with 156,9 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuN6o6HHCY
Dell XPS B866
Intel 820 Chipset
Pentium 3 @ 866MHz (133MHz FSB)
1GB (2x512mb) RDRAM 800
TNT2 M64 AGP (OEM)
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz PCI Sound Card
Windows 98SE

Is this for real? Where are the textures??

He has probably turned off the textures. I dont like it. It looks ugly as f_k. But it is playable.....
The thing is that you will get more frames per second with textures turned on.
But hey! I can make a small edit to the rulez if you dont aprove it. Textures must be turned on.

I will let this submisson to stay since the FPS count is so slow, and I have recieved submissions waiting to be Qualified that have way higher FPS count.
So it will surely not be a problem.

But from here on. TEXTURES most be ON. 😀
tMQseRT.png

If someone can run the game with colored polygons, and it looks all right, I will allow it
Like this
7Ut3b3u.png

Last edited by Necrodude on 2022-04-28, 09:20. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 145 of 249, by paradigital

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I’m so having a go at this when I get back home.

Are there any restrictions on SLOT A Athlons other than clockspeed?

Never run my Geforce 256 DDR with my Athlon, I usually have it in my Tualatin PC.

Reply 146 of 249, by Necrodude

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paradigital wrote on 2022-04-28, 08:48:

I’m so having a go at this when I get back home.

Are there any restrictions on SLOT A Athlons other than clockspeed?

Never run my Geforce 256 DDR with my Athlon, I usually have it in my Tualatin PC.

No. Its just the maximum of 850mhz and max 1999 graphics card.
You need to have work ing network and sound.
When you do a submission you will need to upload a small video showing your hardware. Then you need to run cpu-z and the devicemanager.
After that you run the timedemo, demo four a couple of times with the sound turned on. We must be able to hear the game in the video.
After that you should connect to our Quake3 server.
Pull down the console and type the following:
connect braindrainlan.sytes. net

connect and play for a few moments.

Reply 147 of 249, by bofh.fromhell

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So to help out my fellow competitors a bit:
SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this.
I see a FPS drop of about 10% with this card.
It beats out SB-Live (SB060) and an ISA AWE64 (CT4520) with several percent.

Also check your BIOS settings, PCI latency, Delayed Transaction, Passive Release etc.
All these settings can have a noticeable impact on the FPS.

Reply 148 of 249, by Necrodude

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bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-30, 13:23:
So to help out my fellow competitors a bit: SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this. I see a FPS drop […]
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So to help out my fellow competitors a bit:
SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this.
I see a FPS drop of about 10% with this card.
It beats out SB-Live (SB060) and an ISA AWE64 (CT4520) with several percent.

Also check your BIOS settings, PCI latency, Delayed Transaction, Passive Release etc.
All these settings can have a noticeable impact on the FPS.

Nice!
What drivers did you use with the CT4810 card?

Reply 149 of 249, by bofh.fromhell

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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-30, 20:55:
bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-30, 13:23:
So to help out my fellow competitors a bit: SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this. I see a FPS drop […]
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So to help out my fellow competitors a bit:
SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this.
I see a FPS drop of about 10% with this card.
It beats out SB-Live (SB060) and an ISA AWE64 (CT4520) with several percent.

Also check your BIOS settings, PCI latency, Delayed Transaction, Passive Release etc.
All these settings can have a noticeable impact on the FPS.

Nice!
What drivers did you use with the CT4810 card?

The one from Vogonsdrivers:
http://vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=7
"Creative Sound Blaster 128 Vibra Win9x driver 4.26 MiB"

Reply 150 of 249, by Necrodude

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bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-30, 21:08:
The one from Vogonsdrivers: http://vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=7 "Creative Sound Blaster 128 Vibra Win9x driver 4.26 MiB" […]
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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-30, 20:55:
bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-04-30, 13:23:
So to help out my fellow competitors a bit: SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this. I see a FPS drop […]
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So to help out my fellow competitors a bit:
SB 128 PCI (my version is CT4810) seems to be really good for this.
I see a FPS drop of about 10% with this card.
It beats out SB-Live (SB060) and an ISA AWE64 (CT4520) with several percent.

Also check your BIOS settings, PCI latency, Delayed Transaction, Passive Release etc.
All these settings can have a noticeable impact on the FPS.

Nice!
What drivers did you use with the CT4810 card?

The one from Vogonsdrivers:
http://vogonsdrivers.com/index.php?catid=7
"Creative Sound Blaster 128 Vibra Win9x driver 4.26 MiB"

thanks

Reply 151 of 249, by Necrodude

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A new submission had been made from "Svensktiger"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J49-PlKo0f0

xkCINuI.png

Highest score at the moment.

#1 Svensktiger with 263,9 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J49-PlKo0f0
Cpu=P3-933E@900MHz, 127MHz FSB
GPU=ASUS V6800 32MB GeForce DDR
Motherboard=ABIT ST6 i815
RAM=Random 256MB stick that does tighest timings at the speed.

#2 mwd with 156,9 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LuN6o6HHCY
Dell XPS B866
Intel 820 Chipset
Pentium 3 @ 866MHz (133MHz FSB)
1GB (2x512mb) RDRAM 800
TNT2 M64 AGP (OEM)
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz PCI Sound Card
Windows 98SE

#3 XTRINO 104.7fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoQw3HfdPVQ
Cpu: Intel Pentium 3 866mhz
GPU: Riva tnt2 Ultra (Compaq it seems)
Motherboard: Intel D815eea2
RAM: 384mb

#4 JizzMasta 46 fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRsaXEaYkb0
Cpu: K6-3+ @616mhz
128mb PC133 SDRAM
Nvidia Geforce 256 SDR 32mb
ASUS P5B rev 1.04 motherboard
Creative Soundblaster Audigy
Intelregistered PRO/1000 GT Network Card

Reply 152 of 249, by pa1983

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Got 261 fps with a P3 800@864, 140Mhz bus and ram on a Via 649x, crappy board tough cant control memory stuff as well as I want to and it wont go much higher if at all on FSB (it can do 166 fsb and 125Mhz ram in 4:3 but a few FPS slower instead but perfectly stable and faster in UT99 last I checked).

I tested the G400 Max at stock clocks VS suicide clocks just to see what difference it made, and the difference where a few FPS so not much.
The GPU is not much of a bottleneck and one of my G400 16MB that is doing 197Mhz on ram for the worst one and 211 on ram for the best one would probably do just as well so I dont see the MAX card being a must since the vanilla G400 tends to OC very well and easily.

https://youtu.be/vzXtUwfU0JQ

I mostly tweak Athlon systems so dont have a ton of P3 parts that are good for OC.

Website, YouTube, Discord, Gallery

Reply 153 of 249, by bofh.fromhell

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pa1983 wrote on 2022-05-01, 12:12:
Got 261 fps with a P3 800@864, 140Mhz bus and ram on a Via 649x, crappy board tough cant control memory stuff as well as I want […]
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Got 261 fps with a P3 800@864, 140Mhz bus and ram on a Via 649x, crappy board tough cant control memory stuff as well as I want to and it wont go much higher if at all on FSB (it can do 166 fsb and 125Mhz ram in 4:3 but a few FPS slower instead but perfectly stable and faster in UT99 last I checked).

I tested the G400 Max at stock clocks VS suicide clocks just to see what difference it made, and the difference where a few FPS so not much.
The GPU is not much of a bottleneck and one of my G400 16MB that is doing 197Mhz on ram for the worst one and 211 on ram for the best one would probably do just as well so I dont see the MAX card being a must since the vanilla G400 tends to OC very well and easily.

https://youtu.be/vzXtUwfU0JQ

I mostly tweak Athlon systems so dont have a ton of P3 parts that are good for OC.

Been there done that with my Gigabyte 6VXC7-4X =)
Abandoned it due to lack of memory and PCI tweaking.
My ABIT ST6 (above) is faster with way lower FSB, 127MHz vs 150MHz......

On my third system now and tweaking away.
I'm seeing a very clear correlation between memory bandwidth and the benchmark FPS.
So I'm calling it now: this will not be won with regular SDRAM.
For the P3 I'm not sure if the RDRAM boards can compete with the very good and tweakable Apollo Pro 266.
But I don't have either so I cant test that.

Reply 154 of 249, by pa1983

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I have 6ns SDRAM that should do 150-166Mhz (tested on a capable board that I borrowed for a day) but my board cant do that on ram but FSB only.
I also ran like an audigy 2 or 4 I think not a SB128 so there is definitely more performance to be had with the right ram, cpu and MB on the P3 platform.

But Athlons are easier due to unlocked multiplier, the avalibility of low cost DDR and well cheaper Socket A boards for me has been a lot easier to get then a good Socket 370, I do not have a good socket 370 board 🤣
I find both VIA, SIS and Intel 370 based boards I have to have crap bioses, AMD boards just seems to have much more options for memory timings, PCI, AGP, OC, all the good stuff.

Almost feels like manufacturers put little effort in to P3 boards because its intel so its the best (phun intended) so no effort required.... 🤣

But the current leader is a P3 system with impressive numbers for what it is.
And yea BIOS makes a big difference on P3 memory performance.

Last edited by pa1983 on 2022-05-01, 13:34. Edited 1 time in total.

Website, YouTube, Discord, Gallery

Reply 155 of 249, by bofh.fromhell

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Maybe I should spend more time testing sound-cards.
I mean the PCI128 was the fastest (or least restrictive) of the 3 I tested.
But there's more options for sure.
And potentially lots of performance to be had.

Reply 156 of 249, by Necrodude

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bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-05-01, 13:09:
Maybe I should spend more time testing sound-cards. I mean the PCI128 was the fastest (or least restrictive) of the 3 I tested. […]
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Maybe I should spend more time testing sound-cards.
I mean the PCI128 was the fastest (or least restrictive) of the 3 I tested.
But there's more options for sure.
And potentially lots of performance to be had.

I am eager to find out what is the fastest sound card.

Reply 157 of 249, by stef80

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Isn't PCI just rebranded Ensoniq (or derivative of) which did lots of stuff in software?
Could it be that Live! has bigger driver overhead at low audio settings? I'm curious to try ESS Solo-1, or something similar.

Reply 158 of 249, by bofh.fromhell

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wow, hit an unexpected roadblock.
With my current system 5.5x154MHz FSB tests identically as 6x141MHz.
All because i have to lower "cpu fast command decode" from ultra to fast.
Now I wonder if that's a motherboard problem or if its the CPU.

Reply 159 of 249, by bofh.fromhell

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So I have 2 soundcards that call themself CT4810.
1 With a chip called CT5880 from 01 week 34
And 1 with a CT2518 from 99 week 30 (this card also has a built in speaker amp provided by a Phillips tda1517).
Both use the same driver, the W9X VXD driver from vogonsdrivers.
But one of theese cards is way faster then the other.....

Yea, the CT5880 loses 3-4% less FPS then the CT2518.
Both chips are supposedly just renamed ES1371.
But clearly that's not the case.