VOGONS


First post, by Lylat1an

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Hello, I would like to get an 8-bit ISA VGA card for testing older motherboards on a modern monitor.

Do any reputable examples come to mind that aren't over $100 on Ebay?

I remember having one long ago that 'just worked' without DIP switches nor jumpers, but it was expensive and I can't remember its name. (I think it was made by ATI or possibly AMD)

If a card with jumpers/DIP switches is advised, I'll need to have access to the manual online too.

Thanks.

Last edited by Lylat1an on 2022-09-16, 02:20. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 15, by Sphere478

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You should be able to plug in a 16-bit card and let the extra hang over

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Reply 2 of 15, by Horun

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As Sphere478 said: There are some decent 16bit 256k to 1Mb VGA cards that work fine in 8 bit slots with few jumpers or switches. There are also some 8bit but as you said are relatively expensive.
Note: there are some issues using 1Mb VGA on XT depending on bios and motherboard. I cannot find the topic here or my list but these work well in later XT clones. From my box of 8/16bit VGA:
Most OAK OTI037C based. Example Hedaka HED-622. One jumper to switch 8bit/16bit bus. Old MHL V0066 but does not show a jumper at bottom of ram that changes 8bit or 16bit: http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/v/E-H/50066.htm
Many TVGA Trident 8900 or 9000 ISA. Jumpers to change 8/16bit. Example: Jaton JX-8216A http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/v/I-L/51651.htm or http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/v/P-R/50859.htm
Many Acumos AVGA1 <Cirrus Logic CL-GD5401> based (aka GTK VGA1) based, either one or no jumpers {Auto detects}. https://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cpu/item … 01-acumos-avga1
Mine is this one: https://www.vgamuseum.info/images/vlask/cirrus/5401f.jpg but branded Acumos/GTK...

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 3 of 15, by Veeb0rg

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-16, 02:18:

You should be able to plug in a 16-bit card and let the extra hang over

My parents first XT Clone ran like that for years. Had a 16bit card in an 8bit slot and worked perfectly.

Reply 4 of 15, by TheMobRules

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I use a Paradise PVGA1A-JK with 256K, it's obviously slow but that doesn't really matter in an XT class system. The good thing is that it provides excellent compatibility and very good image quality. And it has no jumpers/switches.

My card is 8-bit, but 16-bit versions should work fine on 8-bit slots also. No idea about current prices, I got mine for just a few bucks some years ago (it's nothing special really) but knowing current trends there are probably sellers trying to fetch > $100 on eBay or something like that. Personally I wouldn't pay more than $25 for one.

Reply 5 of 15, by keropi

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you can always build Sergey's ISA SUPER VGA: http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/isa-supervga
or just get a crappy VGA card with a realtek chipset - they are slow but they work in both 8/16bit slots

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Reply 6 of 15, by Sphere478

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keropi wrote on 2022-09-16, 06:48:

you can always build Sergey's ISA SUPER VGA: http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/isa-supervga
or just get a crappy VGA card with a realtek chipset - they are slow but they work in both 8/16bit slots

That reminds me, there is another one called the graphics gremlin or something rather.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 7 of 15, by keropi

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-16, 07:11:

That reminds me, there is another one called the graphics gremlin or something rather.

isn't it a CGA card though? I do not think it does VGA

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Reply 8 of 15, by Sphere478

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keropi wrote on 2022-09-16, 07:28:
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-16, 07:11:

That reminds me, there is another one called the graphics gremlin or something rather.

isn't it a CGA card though? I do not think it does VGA

You may be right.

Edit: yep,

https://github.com/schlae/graphics-gremlin

My bad.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 9 of 15, by Anonymous Coward

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Pretty much any ATi vgawonder or oem “1024”should work in an 8 bit a lot. The ones with the 9 pin digital connector are best.

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Reply 10 of 15, by Moogle!

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Anonymous Coward wrote on 2022-09-16, 08:09:

Pretty much any ATi vgawonder or oem “1024”should work in an 8 bit a lot. The ones with the 9 pin digital connector are best.

Just a word of warning, the Xi-8088 systems don't seem to like these cards.

Reply 11 of 15, by Jo22

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There's a thread at vcfed about VGA cards with 8088 friendly BIOSes, I vaguely remember.

Edit: Was it this one? https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/8bi … ga-cards.26866/

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Reply 12 of 15, by noshutdown

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indeed, 8bit isa vga cards are not that common to find.
and i wonder if there are any vga chips with only native 8bit bus interface, rather than a chip with 16bit bus support placed on 8bit pcb?

Reply 13 of 15, by mkarcher

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noshutdown wrote on 2022-11-18, 04:56:

and i wonder if there are any vga chips with only native 8bit bus interface, rather than a chip with 16bit bus support placed on 8bit pcb?

The IBM VGA is a design based on an 8-bit bus interface. Actually, the VGA is called "video graphics array", because that's the name of one of the custom gate array chips in the IBM PS/2 model 50. This chip has an 8-bit bus interface. The "IBM PS/2 display adapter", which is the official name of the IBM ISA card featuring the video graphics array from the PS/2 model 50, also is an 8-bit ISA card designed to work with all IBM PC computers starting at the original PC. The first generation clone chips also were designed with that 8-bit bus in mind.

Take a look at

I wonder whether some of the 16-bit VGAs with early chipsets, like the PVGA1K or the ATI 18800 actually support 16-bit VGA memory/register access, or they just provide 16-bit BIOS access, and still limit VGA cycles to 8 bits.

Reply 14 of 15, by waterbeesje

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For lolz I once plugged an ET4000AX into an 8bit IBM model 30 and just worked without any hesitation and no jumpers.
Also had several Trident TVGA 8900 and 9000, Oak 037 / 077 / 087, Realtek, Chips&tech, UMC 408 plugged in Turbo XT board without problems. Most without jumpering

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 15 of 15, by clb

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I've got a catalog of VGA cards that I was testing on a Turbo XT clone (8 MHz) and a 25MHz 386 SX. My observation was that several VGA cards did not play well with Alley Cat. In the end I remember I settled on a ATI 28800-5 (or a ATI 28800-6 maybe?) card, that did run Alley Cat well.