Warlord wrote on 2022-11-28, 03:17:

back then the p4 EE was extreemly expensive, and when comparing value to performance AMD was very competitive to intel. Simaraly priced AMDs to intels in those price brackets often costed less and outperfomed intel at the time. Then AMD came out with the A64 and it destroyed the P4. It wasn't untill like 2006 with core duos came out that Intel beat AMD in anything other than Clockspeed numbers. High clockpeed numbers for p4 was a marketing gimmick. AMD running at like 2 ghz was equivlent to Intel at 3ghz. Intels own laptop chip the Pentium M runninging at 2.4ghz was about equal performance to a Etreme edition p4.

The p4 EE is acttually not better it was a piece of shit.

That just leaves the Athlon 64

Athlon 64 FX-60
Clock: 2.6 GHz
L2 cache: 2x1024
HT: 1000 GHz
Multi: 13x
VCore: 1.35-1.40 V
TDP: 110 W
Socket: 939

Athlon 64 FX-62
Clock: 2.8
L2 cache: 2x1024
HT: 1000
Multi: 14x
VCore: 1.35-1.40 V
TDP: 125 W
Socket: AM2

Athlon 64 FX-74
Clock: 3.0
L2 cache: 2x1024
HT: 1000
Multi: 15x
VCore: 1.35-1.40 V
TDP: 125 W
Socket: F (1207 FX)

Athlon 64 FX-62

Cool to have, but Athlon 64 6400+ Black is faster and has better stepping.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-11-29, 01:29:

Athlon 64 FX-62

Cool to have, but Athlon 64 6400+ Black is faster and has better stepping.

Athlon 64 X2 6400+ (F3) Black Edition
Clock: 3.2 GHz
L2 cache: 2 × 1024
HT: 1000
Multi: 16x
VCore: 1.35–1.40
TDP: 125
Socket: AM2

For now, I'll go with an Athlon 64. It's just a matter now of choosing the right one.

BTW avoid the G2 stepping, it has worse memory latency.

cde wrote on 2022-11-29, 17:50:

BTW avoid the G2 stepping, it has worse memory latency.

This G2 stepping is Lima core, which is mostly all low end low power efficient Athlon 64 with "LE " "e" suffix?

Cheers,

X86 wrote on 2022-11-25, 07:31:

True I could use my pentium 4 rig to heat a small room if needed 🤣

Ahh, I'm getting flashbacks to 2003-2005, LAN parties in December with every window open and everyone wearing shorts.

OP, are you trying to spec the machine based around hardware you already have, or around an end-goal of performance? If the former, I'm guessing you already have the 9800 and K6 450? Do you have a budget in mind for this project?

Jaron wrote on 2022-11-30, 00:37:

X86 wrote on 2022-11-25, 07:31:

True I could use my pentium 4 rig to heat a small room if needed 🤣

Ahh, I'm getting flashbacks to 2003-2005, LAN parties in December with every window open and everyone wearing shorts.

I have similar memories, though more like 2001-2002 I think. I remember my Athlon Tbird Socket A 1.33Ghz crashing from getting too hot with the stock (garbage) heatsink. We had 3 PCs running in a tiny bed room and the home's furnace was cranking away because it was like 10F outside. It had to have been over 80F in there. We also ended up opening a window. 😁

Funny thing is, gaming systems use SO much more power now than they did then. It was just the puny coolers and fans we were working with back then that made it seem so bad. The other major factor was of course that they just did NOT clock down to reduce consumption or heat output. I would be curious to see the idle, web browsing, gaming load and stress test power consumption (and decibel level) measurements of a system from ~2002 vs. a modern gaming system. I bet the idle and web browsing consumption is hilariously bad on a system from back then.

Jaron wrote on 2022-11-30, 00:37:

X86 wrote on 2022-11-25, 07:31:

True I could use my pentium 4 rig to heat a small room if needed 🤣

Ahh, I'm getting flashbacks to 2003-2005, LAN parties in December with every window open and everyone wearing shorts.

OP, are you trying to spec the machine based around hardware you already have, or around an end-goal of performance? If the former, I'm guessing you already have the 9800 and K6 450? Do you have a budget in mind for this project?

End-goal performance. I already have the 9800 Pro; I need to determine the system to go with it.

Phileholic wrote on 2022-11-30, 18:13:

Jaron wrote on 2022-11-30, 00:37:

OP, are you trying to spec the machine based around hardware you already have, or around an end-goal of performance? If the former, I'm guessing you already have the 9800 and K6 450? Do you have a budget in mind for this project?

End-goal performance. I already have the 9800 Pro; I need to determine the system to go with it.

Do you have other video cards or you must build a system around this 9800 Pro? It's one of the best card for Win9x but there are many, many better cards under WinXP.

And somehow I have a feeling that you might have confused "9800 Pro" with "AGP Pro"; All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro has an AGP 8X interface, not AGP Pro (more common on contemporary Mac but very rare on PC-compatibles).

dormcat wrote on 2022-11-30, 19:18:

Do you have other video cards or you must build a system around this 9800 Pro? It's one of the best card for Win9x but there are many, many better cards under WinXP.

I concur. Sometimes we get lucky and our leftover hardware already fits the bill for what we want. But that's not really the case here. I have an X1600 Pro which is a middling card at best for WinXP, and that's two generations ahead of your 9800. You certainly can make a WinXP system around the 9800, but it won't perform well for later DX9 games.

Do you already have other hardware you're planning to use for this system? The hard drives you linked earlier were rather expensive ( at least when I opened the link they were shown to be $150 or more ). If you're already looking for a motherboard for this project, I'd suggest getting one with SATA and PCIe. That greatly simplifies shopping because the parts you'd want would be consider old and used, but not so old that prices are increased because they're considered vintage or because they're hard to find. You can get cheap SATA drives for $20 no problem. A GTX 650 Ti or 750 Ti GPU is smoking fast cards for WinXP games, and they're often under $40. Just about anything up to Intel Ivy Bridge and AMD Piledriver should work okay.

I'm still having trouble figuring out what the goal of this build is based on the information given.

I don't want to be that guy, but... Phileholic, have you used PCs from the time period you're trying to build for? Like, were you building PCs and playing PC games back in 2003-2004? If you can give some context as to what experience you are trying to re-create or what you're trying to actually use the computer for it will help a lot.

If this is all 100% new to you and you haven't had any experience with this stuff in the past, then I wouldn't suggest focusing on all of the absolute most expensive and rarest hardware options available for a given time period. So far your posts have pretty much been lists of uber-expensive stuff that few of us would bother trying to use for a practical build, so not many of us are going to recommend that you buy those without knowing what you're trying to use them for.

If you can give a list of games you intend to play the community here will be more than happy to make this an easy build for you. The vast majority of games that run on XP will run fantastic on something as simple as a craigslist-freebie Dell Optiplex or Lenovo Thinkcentre with a 2nd or 3rd gen Core i3 or i5. Just drop in a half way decent older PCI-Express GPU with XP drivers (750 Ti etc.) and you'll be running most games many times faster than you would on anything that involved the 9800 Pro. If you need an older GPU for compatibility with picky games, a PCI-E Geforce 6\7\8 series or Quadro from that time period will be cheap and also much much faster than a 9800 Pro. There are even PCI-Express Geforce FX-based Quadro cards out there for cheap that will maintain compatibility with very old games, like the Quadro FX 1300 which is based on the FX 5900 (competitor of the 9800 Pro).

Not trying to shoot down your 9800 Pro, but without knowing what you're trying to do it is very hard to make a recommendation based on that card, since it isn't really the best card for anything involving Windows XP.

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2022-12-01, 02:14:

I'm still having trouble figuring out what the goal of this build is based on the information given. […]
Show full quote

I'm still having trouble figuring out what the goal of this build is based on the information given.

I don't want to be that guy, but... Phileholic, have you used PCs from the time period you're trying to build for? Like, were you building PCs and playing PC games back in 2003-2004? If you can give some context as to what experience you are trying to re-create or what you're trying to actually use the computer for it will help a lot.

If this is all 100% new to you and you haven't had any experience with this stuff in the past, then I wouldn't suggest focusing on all of the absolute most expensive and rarest hardware options available for a given time period. So far your posts have pretty much been lists of uber-expensive stuff that few of us would bother trying to use for a practical build, so not many of us are going to recommend that you buy those without knowing what you're trying to use them for.

If you can give a list of games you intend to play the community here will be more than happy to make this an easy build for you. The vast majority of games that run on XP will run fantastic on something as simple as a craigslist-freebie Dell Optiplex or Lenovo Thinkcentre with a 2nd or 3rd gen Core i3 or i5. Just drop in a half way decent older PCI-Express GPU with XP drivers (750 Ti etc.) and you'll be running most games many times faster than you would on anything that involved the 9800 Pro. If you need an older GPU for compatibility with picky games, a PCI-E Geforce 6\7\8 series or Quadro from that time period will be cheap and also much much faster than a 9800 Pro. There are even PCI-Express Geforce FX-based Quadro cards out there for cheap that will maintain compatibility with very old games, like the Quadro FX 1300 which is based on the FX 5900 (competitor of the 9800 Pro).

Not trying to shoot down your 9800 Pro, but without knowing what you're trying to do it is very hard to make a recommendation based on that card, since it isn't really the best card for anything involving Windows XP.

Sorry for the late reply.

The 9800 Pro I'll be using will be for video capturing to capture SD analog media that I own, like VHS, Laserdisc, etc. WinXP is the best OS to use for it which is why I'm trying to build a system around it using the best components since the CPU plays a role in the quality of the captures.

Building it will be a whole new thing for me, but I've been using a PC since Win98 for certain games like Diablo II and Warcraft III.

I know all about that. You should of just get one of those AROCK core 2 boards with AGP if thats what you wanted , and not trolled us with using a socket 7.

If your primary purpose is to capture and transfer your old media to modern formats, you might want to look into a dedicated capture device. That way you could use it with a modern computer and more importantly software, which helps de-interlace and perhaps upscale the content. It'll be faster and cheaper too. You can get an AV converter for RCA/composite/S-Video/component, or whatever format into something digital like DVI or HDMI. That can then be passed into any number of basic game stream capture devices that cost no more than $100, and you use whatever recording and compression software you want. There are also dedicated devices specifically for doing this that do the capture and recording all themselves, but I don't know how well they may work or which are the better options.

I could also think of an option where you do this as an excuse to build a nice retro XP gaming system. In which case, I would get the latest and most powerful CPU/mboard that will support the 9800. Then, after you're done capturing the video, you can swap out the 9800 to something better, if you wanted. However, you'd still be limited to an AGP mboard for XP, which isn't bad, but does limit the top-end performance for later XP and DX9 games.

the comb filter on the AIW 9800 as crazy as that that sounds is just about as good as you can get besides, Its a terrible idea to use one of those converters. He will need time base correction equipment as well and will be probably caturing to Uncompressed AVI. At that point if he wants to upscale it to 640x480 or whatever during the encoding process its fine but having some piece of equipment will probbaly ruin the image.

Phileholic wrote on 2022-12-01, 20:20:

Sorry for the late reply. […]
Show full quote

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2022-12-01, 02:14:

I'm still having trouble figuring out what the goal of this build is based on the information given. […]
Show full quote

I'm still having trouble figuring out what the goal of this build is based on the information given.

I don't want to be that guy, but... Phileholic, have you used PCs from the time period you're trying to build for? Like, were you building PCs and playing PC games back in 2003-2004? If you can give some context as to what experience you are trying to re-create or what you're trying to actually use the computer for it will help a lot.

If this is all 100% new to you and you haven't had any experience with this stuff in the past, then I wouldn't suggest focusing on all of the absolute most expensive and rarest hardware options available for a given time period. So far your posts have pretty much been lists of uber-expensive stuff that few of us would bother trying to use for a practical build, so not many of us are going to recommend that you buy those without knowing what you're trying to use them for.

If you can give a list of games you intend to play the community here will be more than happy to make this an easy build for you. The vast majority of games that run on XP will run fantastic on something as simple as a craigslist-freebie Dell Optiplex or Lenovo Thinkcentre with a 2nd or 3rd gen Core i3 or i5. Just drop in a half way decent older PCI-Express GPU with XP drivers (750 Ti etc.) and you'll be running most games many times faster than you would on anything that involved the 9800 Pro. If you need an older GPU for compatibility with picky games, a PCI-E Geforce 6\7\8 series or Quadro from that time period will be cheap and also much much faster than a 9800 Pro. There are even PCI-Express Geforce FX-based Quadro cards out there for cheap that will maintain compatibility with very old games, like the Quadro FX 1300 which is based on the FX 5900 (competitor of the 9800 Pro).

Not trying to shoot down your 9800 Pro, but without knowing what you're trying to do it is very hard to make a recommendation based on that card, since it isn't really the best card for anything involving Windows XP.

Sorry for the late reply.

The 9800 Pro I'll be using will be for video capturing to capture SD analog media that I own, like VHS, Laserdisc, etc. WinXP is the best OS to use for it which is why I'm trying to build a system around it using the best components since the CPU plays a role in the quality of the captures.

Building it will be a whole new thing for me, but I've been using a PC since Win98 for certain games like Diablo II and Warcraft III.

Okay, thank you for clarifying. This completely changes the entire focus of the thread since it isn't going to be used for gaming.

I did a little googling and came up with this guide:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments … re_video_tapes/

If you're dealing with strictly analog media, I'd focus on the section titled: Capture setup: More complex lossless capture via capture cards

You could build an entire AGP-based retro PC... or you could just use one of the capture devices listed there to get high quality recordings on a modern PC using modern software and modern codecs.

Warlord wrote on 2022-12-01, 21:02:

the comb filter on the AIW 9800 as crazy as that that sounds is just about as good as you can get besides, Its a terrible idea to use one of those converters. He will need time base correction equipment as well and will be probably caturing to Uncompressed AVI. At that point if he wants to upscale it to 640x480 or whatever during the encoding process its fine but having some piece of equipment will probbaly ruin the image.

Your right. That's exactly how I plan on going about it.

Warlord wrote on 2022-12-01, 20:41:

I know all about that. You should of just get one of those AROCK core 2 boards with AGP if thats what you wanted , and not trolled us with using a socket 7.

Specifically, an ASRock MB with Intel 865 series chipset and LGA775 socket that supports 65nm Core 2 series CPU, with 775i65G R3.0 being the best of them.

Would it still be a good idea to use an Athlon CPU for this? Like the XP or the 64?

dormcat wrote on 2022-12-02, 02:50:

Warlord wrote on 2022-12-01, 20:41:

I know all about that. You should of just get one of those AROCK core 2 boards with AGP if thats what you wanted , and not trolled us with using a socket 7.

Specifically, an ASRock MB with Intel 865 series chipset and LGA775 socket that supports 65nm Core 2 series CPU, with 775i65G R3.0 being the best of them.

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asrock-775i65g