You're not going to get a lot of "3D" stuff from ISA cards. I've seen plenty advertise such effects, but I haven't found anything special. Personally I found YMF71x cards to be very easy to work with and they seem to "just work" when it comes to Windows.

I remember looking up benchmarks and AWE64 seems to be the best one when it comes to stuff like game frame rates, but the difference between it and the rest is like 0.5-1 FPS, if any. The couple I have are quite noisy, though they are the low-end models (CT4520).

As I have three of the sound cards that you mentioned, I'll share some of my experiences with them.

• OPTi cards have very basic Win9x drivers with no DirectSound support. They are great for DOS and Win3.1, but not for Win9x.
• ESS AudioDrive 1868F cards (and newer) have decent Win9x drivers, but I did experience some minor crackling on rare occasions. However, this may have been due to the particular system that I was testing them on. Otherwise, these cards sounded excellent.
• AWE64 cards (even the cheapest value versions) have stable Win9x drivers with proper DirectSound support. I haven't had any issues with them.

As you probably know, most people use a PCI sound card for Win9x gaming since they generally have better drivers and also support EAX and/or A3D. Games made from 1997/98 and onward usually cater to one of those standards.

MIDI is still important in the Win9x days so something that has strong MIDI support.
16 bit audio is probably more important then it is in dos as well, If it's actually noticeable is another question.

I'd probably go with AWE64, in a way they are more useful in windows then dos with the protected mode limitation.
Yamaha YMF cards came in both ISA and PCI with many Win9x era PC's using the chip for onboard sound so another good option with good MIDI

One thing to consider is cost though, a SBLive is 10 times better and can be had for next to nothing where as even average ISA cards attract a premium. But if you want an ISA card that's totally fine of course.

'Best Windows ISA Sound card'

Windows Sound System ? 🥲

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Sound_System

chinny22 wrote on 2023-02-20, 11:42:

MIDI is still important in the Win9x days so something that has strong MIDI support. 16 bit audio is probably more important the […]
Show full quote

MIDI is still important in the Win9x days so something that has strong MIDI support.
16 bit audio is probably more important then it is in dos as well, If it's actually noticeable is another question.

I'd probably go with AWE64, in a way they are more useful in windows then dos with the protected mode limitation.
Yamaha YMF cards came in both ISA and PCI with many Win9x era PC's using the chip for onboard sound so another good option with good MIDI

One thing to consider is cost though, a SBLive is 10 times better and can be had for next to nothing where as even average ISA cards attract a premium. But if you want an ISA card that's totally fine of course.

I think the same. That's why the AWE's were so popular, also.
Not only can they do SPDIF output for hi-fidelity, but the EMU8000 DSP was a fine piece (made by EMU Systems, so you/we don't need to hate it).
It was a real synthesizer, also a RAMpler ("wavetable"). There were many soundfonts for it made.
A couple of MOD players supported it directly (Impulse Tracker etc), off-loading CPU work.

Another thing that comes to mind is the DB50XG MIDI module, an XG compatible daughter card.
Yamaha XG standard was a super set to GM and a rival to Roland GS (aka "SC-55"; ironically early SC-55 versions were GM-only).
Some of the Yamaha sound cards have the awesome XG synthesis on-chip.
Alternatively, there's still the SY-XG50 softsynth.. Though it needs CPU power. A weak Pentium 1 PC is hardly enough for good polyphony.

Edit: Sort of an outsider is the Terratec EWS64/EWS64XL.. It's a fine card, even supported by MOD4WIN.
Though I don't know if it's a good Windows 95 performer.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-02-12, 12:27:

As I have three of the sound cards that you mentioned, I'll share some of my experiences with them. […]
Show full quote

As I have three of the sound cards that you mentioned, I'll share some of my experiences with them.

• OPTi cards have very basic Win9x drivers with no DirectSound support. They are great for DOS and Win3.1, but not for Win9x.
• ESS AudioDrive 1868F cards (and newer) have decent Win9x drivers, but I did experience some minor crackling on rare occasions. However, this may have been due to the particular system that I was testing them on. Otherwise, these cards sounded excellent.
• AWE64 cards (even the cheapest value versions) have stable Win9x drivers with proper DirectSound support. I haven't had any issues with them.

As you probably know, most people use a PCI sound card for Win9x gaming since they generally have better drivers and also support EAX and/or A3D. Games made from 1997/98 and onward usually cater to one of those standards.

Yeah, started to really love those ES1868F cards lately. Still dirt cheap, excellent sound, no drivers/TSRs in DOS, simple to configure and use, works great in Win9x, and so on. Most of them seem to come with a wavetable header too. Paired with a Dreamblaster, they've became my first choice for retro computer sound nowadays. Even thinking of throwing out the AWE64s in two of my rigs and replace them with ES1868F + Dreamblaster.

The only problem I've ever had with my ES1868Fs is that I can't seem get them to work in WFW3.11. Never heard the crackling you mention.

In a rig exclusively for W98 gaming, I'd also go for a PCI card though. When it's for both DOS and Windows, I tend to go for a dual sound card setup, ISA for DOS and PCI for Windows.

Is there any difference between the 1868 and 1869? All I ever see mentioned are the 1868 it seems.

ptr1ck wrote on 2023-02-20, 23:54:

Is there any difference between the 1868 and 1869? All I ever see mentioned are the 1868 it seems.

1869 is a slightly improved 1868 with some extra features. No radical changes. I even believe the 1868 Win9x driver is compatible with 1869, don't take my word for it tough.

I'd guess it's just a question of 1868 being more common, or something like that. IIRC Compaq used 1868 cards extensively in their desktops 😀

ptr1ck wrote on 2023-02-20, 23:54:

Is there any difference between the 1868 and 1869? All I ever see mentioned are the 1868 it seems.

Here is a feature comparison of ESS cards of the time. The most notable feature-add of the 1869 is 3D-integrated audio.

https://web.archive.org/web/19970626173032/ht … eatur_comp.html

For SB-compatible ISA sound cards I don't think they differ much when it comes to Windows, though I don't know how Gravis Ultrasound family would perform as I never owned one before...

For PCI, both Aureal Vortex/2 and SB Live/Audigy have MIDI synth that can at least take in a DLS/SF2 of your choice, so it's only a matter of whether you want A3D or EAX for your games.

From what I remember Creative ISA cards, at least up to SB16, don't have WDM drivers for Win98 while some other manufacturers like ESS do. When using WDM drivers, regardless of it being ISA or PCI you get access to Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth which utilizes gm.dls (that you can use your own DLS to substitute if you don't like).

On the other hand, hardware-independent software synths do exist even for older Windows and they perform fine if the CPU is good enough.

A thing is, from what I could remember, on very old Windows systems with ISA sound cards, you can only play one PCM (Wave) sound at a time. MIDI music, however, is handled separately and will not interfere with PCM playback. With modern PCI sound cards this is no longer the case. Maybe that was the same Sound Blaster limitation which made Gravis Ultrasound very different (it was said to be able to play up to 14 PCMs at the same time without lowering frequency).

i can rate 4 isa cards in windows for you:

awe64 gold (cqm fm)- this is probably your best bet. excellent wdm directsound compliant drivers. effortless to setup and never had any problems. i suppose vxd drivers are available, but i never even considered them.

ensoniq soundscape vivo90 (wavetable emulated fm) - compatible nt wdm drivers; good vxd drivers. works ok after a struggle to set up.

opti930 (opl3 fm) - barely compatible nt wdm drivers; horrible vxd drivers. applications like dosbox would output garbled gibberish unless you quadrupled the audio buffers.

aztech azt-2320 (opl3 fm) - good wdm drivers; solid vxd driver available. this would be my vote for 2nd place. it's reasonably close to the awe64 and about 10x cheaper in price.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-02-21, 01:32:

A thing is, from what I could remember, on very old Windows systems with ISA sound cards, you can only play one PCM (Wave) sound at a time.

this is a limitation of vxd drivers. wdm drivers, which are directsound compliant, use a virtual kernel mixer so it's possible for multiple applications to play sounds simultaneously. vxd drivers, unless directsound compliant (rare), operate in exclusive mode. the knock on wdm drivers is that the kernel mixer adds latency.

stanwebber wrote on 2023-02-21, 04:52:

aztech azt-2320 (opl3 fm) - good wdm drivers; solid vxd driver available. this would be my vote for 2nd place. it's reasonably close to the awe64 and about 10x cheaper in price.

Think that's the aztech I daily drove for 4 or 5 years, couldn't fault it's WSS performance. .. had occasional bug outs in SB mode in DOS.

stanwebber wrote on 2023-02-21, 05:01:

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-02-21, 01:32:

A thing is, from what I could remember, on very old Windows systems with ISA sound cards, you can only play one PCM (Wave) sound at a time.

this is a limitation of vxd drivers. wdm drivers, which are directsound compliant, use a virtual kernel mixer so it's possible for multiple applications to play sounds simultaneously. vxd drivers, unless directsound compliant (rare), operate in exclusive mode. the knock on wdm drivers is that the kernel mixer adds latency.

Thanks for clarifying. I don't recall the kernel mixer latency being noticeable, but yeah, that would definitely add some, as the sound has to go through an additional layer of processing with WDM.

stanwebber wrote on 2023-02-21, 05:01:

this is a limitation of vxd drivers. wdm drivers, which are directsound compliant, use a virtual kernel mixer so it's possible for multiple applications to play sounds simultaneously. vxd drivers, unless directsound compliant (rare), operate in exclusive mode. the knock on wdm drivers is that the kernel mixer adds latency.

You would still want VxD drivers if you are searching for a low latency, built in DOS box supported, and real mode DOS compatible configuration. Ofc, to have it working as adviced, you would want to remove any trace of WDM in your system (WDM NTKern doesn't play well with VxD drivers, specially Sound VxDs). This means to remove/disable any USB hardware and turning off ACPI (the inmediate downside is that you will have to use a real PS/2 mouse or Keyboard or an USB one with hardware adapter to PS/2 in this configuration, and you will lose support for USB storage (pendrives, disks, floppies, CD drives, etc)).

Thanks guys for all these replies.
I'll focus on ES1878/1879, AZT2320.
I also consider the Crystal CS4237, it cannot be bad since it's in the Orpheus card, right ?

JustJulião wrote on 2023-02-22, 12:57:

Thanks guys for all these replies.
I'll focus on ES1878/1879, AZT2320.
I also consider the Crystal CS4237, it cannot be bad since it's in the Orpheus card, right ?

I have a Crystal 4237b card that I'm pretty fond of. Among other things, it does implement WSS and has solid drivers for DOS/Win9x/XP. We had a brief discussion of the same two alternatives here: ESS Audiodrive 1869f vs. Crystal 4237b

I'm also partial to Crystal FM synth, but that's very much a matter of taste.

hyoenmadan wrote on 2023-02-22, 02:23:

You would still want VxD drivers if you are searching for a low latency, built in DOS box supported, and real mode DOS compatibl […]
Show full quote

stanwebber wrote on 2023-02-21, 05:01:

this is a limitation of vxd drivers. wdm drivers, which are directsound compliant, use a virtual kernel mixer so it's possible for multiple applications
to play sounds simultaneously. vxd drivers, unless directsound compliant (rare), operate in exclusive mode. the knock on wdm drivers is that the kernel mixer adds latency.

You would still want VxD drivers if you are searching for a low latency, built in DOS box supported, and real mode DOS compatible configuration.
Ofc, to have it working as adviced, you would want to remove any trace of WDM in your system (WDM NTKern doesn't play well with VxD drivers, specially Sound VxDs).
This means to remove/disable any USB hardware and turning off ACPI (the inmediate downside is that you will have to use a real PS/2 mouse or Keyboard
or an USB one with hardware adapter to PS/2 in this configuration, and you will lose support for USB storage (pendrives, disks, floppies, CD drives, etc)).

In other words, just have a totally normal setup, as we used to have had it in the 90s ?! 😁

Btw, did I tell you kids the story how I was riding my boat across the Mississ... Hold on! Wrong story!
Um, were did I stop? Ah yes. Did I tell you kids the story how I hung my PC with a Creative soundcard ?
It was about 2 decades from now, in a dark stormy and rainy nigh.. No no.. Hold on.. That's wrong.

Okay, another try. It was about twenty years ago from now on, on a sunny, warm summer's day.
I was installing Suse Linux 6.x on a Pentium 75 PC with a SB16 inside. Everything went fine up un.. Wait, no, not that way.
Okay, another try. I was trying to install that 10 CD large sun of a beach on my HDD, while constantly being afraid to run out of HDD space.
Finally, the KDE desktop showed up and I got colour in XFree86. I tried out the fancy screensavers, the fun stuff etc.

Everything was okay, up until I tried to run some of the games and had audio issues.
I vaguely remembered I had assumed it had to do with multiple audios streams etc.
To fix this, I enabled "full-duplex"feature in the device manager (Yast?).
It hung, not to say froze, the entire machine! Horror!

Since this day, I do not trust classic ISA Sound Blaster's anymore.
Their weird concept of DMA usage etc. is very unstable, very fatal.
Such a thing shouldn't have had happened in a real, preemptively multitasked OS.

Sure, this was about Linux, not Windows 98. But Windows 9x VXDs are even worse.
They're bad drivers, by design. They have full permission, can see/interfere with any memory location etc.

Personally, I am sooo glad when Windows XP had appeared with its WDM drivers.
Finally, simultanous playback/record was poosible (video chat)! 😁
Multiple audio sources can play at once (both Windows Explorer sound effects and the game/application are audible) 😁

I don't miss VXDs that much. I do play DOS games on pure MS-DOS 6.2x, anyway. Like real men do! 😁

Jo22 wrote on 2023-02-22, 18:58:

They're bad drivers, by design. They have full permission, can see/interfere with any memory location etc.

Ofc, them were designed to work faster in machines with low specs and low ram requirements.
In fact them still fly if you get the right versions and combinations. Nlited Win95/Win98SE with WDM removed literally fly in a PentiumMMX with only 32MB of RAM. That's why it depends mostly on what you will do. If you only need a machine to play Dx8+ games, you don't even need to install Win95/Win98 at all.