VOGONS


First post, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Greetings vogons. New guy from Austria here. I have been dreaming about a 3dfx System since my childhood/early teens but never could get one. I have been considering building a now retro vodoo system for quite some time already but have always postponed it due to high prices of the cards. But now I have the chance to get used 90s pc a HP Pavillion with a P3 800, socket 370 for almost nothing. I would not consider myself as superstitious but I still see it as sign to finally start with building plans. It is now or never the parts are not getting cheaper anytime soon. anyway.I have not seen the pc, this won't chance until the 10th of june when I can open it up by myself if anything is in order.

My now very generic and very noobish question is would be Pentium 3 800 with socket 370 and a voodoo 2 or vodoo 3 a good partners for gaming in general?

I do not mind if is going to be a Vodoo 2 or a 3 I would pick the one that is "cheaper".

Main field of application is going to be late 90s gaming (97 to 99 to be precise).

Thanks for your help in advance.

Reply 1 of 27, by filurkatten

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I think it sounds like a good place to start! 😀
Before I upgraded my retro computer I used a P3 850 100fsb and that was plenty for my gaming needs.
If you find it fun or you find yourself needing more later on you can always upgrade.
In my opinion its a good strategy to just get started with something first than just buys the best of the best becouse that can be tome consuming and expensive.

Reply 2 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
filurkatten wrote on 2023-05-24, 09:25:
I think it sounds like a good place to start! :) Before I upgraded my retro computer I used a P3 850 100fsb and that was plenty […]
Show full quote

I think it sounds like a good place to start! 😀
Before I upgraded my retro computer I used a P3 850 100fsb and that was plenty for my gaming needs.
If you find it fun or you find yourself needing more later on you can always upgrade.
In my opinion its a good strategy to just get started with something first than just buys the best of the best becouse that can be tome consuming and expensive.

Thank you for the reply. Yes I think so. It is easier that way to start with a solid basis already. Starting from the scratch would be cool as well but maybe a bit too overhwelming for a beginner. Picking up the right mainboard that certainly works is not that easy and can also be expensive. The System I can get is still fully operational.

If I am not happy with the CPU I can still change the cpu for another one that is supported by the socket 370. The most important thing is that I have working motherboard, working psu and working cooler.

Reply 3 of 27, by predator_085

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Welcome. I am still in the planning process of my first retro rig myself so I cannot help you. But while researching about the different cpu I also found some info about the P3 800

https://www.anandtech.com/show/423/3

It might help you to decide whether the P3 800 is a good CPU for you.

Reply 4 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-24, 12:20:

Welcome. I am still in the planning process of my first retro rig myself so I cannot help you. But while researching about the different cpu I also found some info about the P3 800

https://www.anandtech.com/show/423/3

It might help you to decide whether the P3 800 is a good CPU for you.

Thanks for the link. It was informative but also very technical. Had to look some terms up but in general it seems that the p800 is decent gaming cpu.

@all Would there be any bennefits for a vodoo 2 or 3 system to upgrade the cpu to pentium 3 in the 1 GHZ range or wouldn't that upgrade generate any performance gain? What do you guys think?

According to the specs of the games I want to play I would be over the recommended specs so I see no real reason to consider a upgrade.

I could even play some games from 2000 and 2001 with a 800 MHZ CPU. For 2000 and 2001 game the vodoo 2 or 3 could be the bottleneck then and not cpu itself. Which is funny. Did not expect that.

Reply 5 of 27, by Garrett W

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

PIII 800 is IMO more than enough for either V2 SLI or V3. Yes, you can squeeze a little bit more performance out of them, but you have already reached the point of greatly diminishing returns. Phil of Phil's Computer Lab had a rather thorough document created with CPU scaling showcased for the V2 and V2 SLI, but I can't find it right now.

Unless I missed it, you did not let us know which V3 model you own. You can think of the Voodoo 3 2000 as more or less an equivalent to the V2 SLI but with far less stuttering thanks to the unified memory architecture. The V3 3000 is slightly faster (143MHz -> 166Mhz). V3 3500 is somewhat faster still.

Reply 6 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Garrett W wrote on 2023-05-24, 13:21:

PIII 800 is IMO more than enough for either V2 SLI or V3. Yes, you can squeeze a little bit more performance out of them, but you have already reached the point of greatly diminishing returns. Phil of Phil's Computer Lab had a rather thorough document created with CPU scaling showcased for the V2 and V2 SLI, but I can't find it right now.

Unless I missed it, you did not let us know which V3 model you own. You can think of the Voodoo 3 2000 as more or less an equivalent to the V2 SLI but with far less stuttering thanks to the unified memory architecture. The V3 3000 is slightly faster (143MHz -> 166Mhz). V3 3500 is somewhat faster still.

Thanks for your reply.

And sorry for writting in a unclear way. I do not have Vodoo card yet. I will get the hp pc for almost nothing on the 10th june. Then the only thing I still need to purchase is the Vodoo card. If is going to be Vodoo 2 or Vodoo 3 depends on the price. I will take the cheapest one I get.

The chances are high that is going to be Vodoo 3 2000. The Vodoo 3 2000 line tends to be cheaper than either a Vodoo 2 or Vodoo 3 3000 or 3500. In case I got the chance to get a Vodoo 2 or another of the Vodoo 3 models at cheaper price than usual I would grab it of course.

Reply 7 of 27, by Gmlb256

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

For best compatibility with early Glide games: Voodoo2 (SLI improves performance but won't eliminate texture thrashing in later games as the amount of memory per TMU isn't doubled).
For best performance and less clutter inside the computer case: Voodoo3.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 8 of 27, by Jasin Natael

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start.
I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU however.
1GHZ or so is the maximum that I would pair with say a V3 3500.
Voodoo 2 SLI is a great option as it allows you to use a separate D3D card, which might or might not benefit from the faster chip.
The Voodoo 2's in SLI likely won't benefit from more than 800mhz.
None of the 3dfx cards will be cheap though.

Reply 9 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:10:
I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start. I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU howev […]
Show full quote

I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start.
I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU however.
1GHZ or so is the maximum that I would pair with say a V3 3500.
Voodoo 2 SLI is a great option as it allows you to use a separate D3D card, which might or might not benefit from the faster chip.
The Voodoo 2's in SLI likely won't benefit from more than 800mhz.
None of the 3dfx cards will be cheap though.

Thanks for the info. Yes I have checked the prices of the Vodoo cards already. They are really not cheap. It is good to know that a 800mhz cpu is good starting point. I could replace it later with 1ghz later if I feel the need to do .

Getting another D3D as parnter for the SLI cards in case I aim for an SLI system also sounds like a possible option.

Which 3d3 card that would be compatible with a socket 370 would you recommend?

@Gmlb256 Thanks for the info as well.

Reply 10 of 27, by Jasin Natael

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
retep_110 wrote on 2023-05-24, 16:50:
Thanks for the info. Yes I have checked the prices of the Vodoo cards already. They are really not cheap. It is good to know th […]
Show full quote
Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:10:
I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start. I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU howev […]
Show full quote

I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start.
I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU however.
1GHZ or so is the maximum that I would pair with say a V3 3500.
Voodoo 2 SLI is a great option as it allows you to use a separate D3D card, which might or might not benefit from the faster chip.
The Voodoo 2's in SLI likely won't benefit from more than 800mhz.
None of the 3dfx cards will be cheap though.

Thanks for the info. Yes I have checked the prices of the Vodoo cards already. They are really not cheap. It is good to know that a 800mhz cpu is good starting point. I could replace it later with 1ghz later if I feel the need to do .

Getting another D3D as parnter for the SLI cards in case I aim for an SLI system also sounds like a possible option.

Which 3d3 card that would be compatible with a socket 370 would you recommend?

@Gmlb256 Thanks for the info as well.

There are quite a few options. For my money with a PIII 800-1000mhz I would probably go for a Geforce 2 of some type.
Maybe a Geforce 2GTS or a Geforce MX440?
They should be easy to find and cheap. Just avoid any OEM 64bit bus cards if you go for the MX.
If you can snag a Geforce 2ti for a good price that would probably be ideal.
Even a Radeon 7500/8500 would be a decent option, thought likely not as compatible.

Reply 11 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-24, 20:07:
There are quite a few options. For my money with a PIII 800-1000mhz I would probably go for a Geforce 2 of some type. Maybe a G […]
Show full quote
retep_110 wrote on 2023-05-24, 16:50:
Thanks for the info. Yes I have checked the prices of the Vodoo cards already. They are really not cheap. It is good to know th […]
Show full quote
Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:10:
I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start. I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU howev […]
Show full quote

I think that 800mhz is a fine place to start.
I do think that the Voodoo 3 can show some benefit with slightly faster CPU however.
1GHZ or so is the maximum that I would pair with say a V3 3500.
Voodoo 2 SLI is a great option as it allows you to use a separate D3D card, which might or might not benefit from the faster chip.
The Voodoo 2's in SLI likely won't benefit from more than 800mhz.
None of the 3dfx cards will be cheap though.

Thanks for the info. Yes I have checked the prices of the Vodoo cards already. They are really not cheap. It is good to know that a 800mhz cpu is good starting point. I could replace it later with 1ghz later if I feel the need to do .

Getting another D3D as parnter for the SLI cards in case I aim for an SLI system also sounds like a possible option.

Which 3d3 card that would be compatible with a socket 370 would you recommend?

@Gmlb256 Thanks for the info as well.

There are quite a few options. For my money with a PIII 800-1000mhz I would probably go for a Geforce 2 of some type.
Maybe a Geforce 2GTS or a Geforce MX440?
They should be easy to find and cheap. Just avoid any OEM 64bit bus cards if you go for the MX.
If you can snag a Geforce 2ti for a good price that would probably be ideal.
Even a Radeon 7500/8500 would be a decent option, thought likely not as compatible.

Thanks again for the advice. The price of both variants of the GF 2, the GTS and the TI would be ok for me. While some like the Asus AGP-V7700 Pro Deluxe are even bit cheaper.

Considering the fact that I am wiling to pay quite some money for a Vodoo 2 or Vodoo 3, I am also eager to get the best GF 2 card I can get in case if I go with second 3d3 path.

Which one should I pick? The Pro Variant or the TI?

Going with ATI radeon would be possible as well but the 7500 has a more attractive price than the 8500. The 8500 is price wise almost in the Vodoo 2 or Vodoo 3 territory. The only expection to this would a Radeon 8500 all in Wonder card which is a bit cheaper.

I would consider the all in wonder card a viable alternative though. Principally I have no problems with the all in wonder brand, in fact my first 3d card I ever got was one of the early Ati all in Wonder cards and it did its job. But I do not need TV card for retro pc, have real TV by now so i want a card that is only focused on gaming.

Last edited by retep_110 on 2023-05-25, 06:34. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 12 of 27, by theiceman085

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

In case you should pick up a Radeon Card you need to consider that they lack some legacy features like table fog and paletted textures.

Use this threads as a reference for further information about the topic

Table Fog & 8-bit Paletted Textures

Re: old games on cards with missing legacy features

ps: Willkommen im Forum. Nice to meet another retro fan from Austria.

Reply 13 of 27, by smtkr

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

FWIW, the Voodoo 3 would have been on the shelves at Best Buy when that CPU came out, so it would have been something fairly common at the time.

In terms of Geforce 2, any of them would be fine. Obviously, you get more speed out of Pro and Ultra variants, but the GTS will do fine for you. If you're totally concerned with performance, then there are Geforce 3 and Geforce 4.

I always tackle my vintage builds by thinking about what I'm trying to do. If I want a Geforce 2 system because that's what I would have built in 2000, then I would get a GTS because that's more than likely what I would have actually bought. If I want a fast system, I'll just build something that's not period correct but is way faster than any of the software needs.

Reply 14 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

theiceman085 Thanks for the link and the warm welcome. The legacy feature stuff is really intriguing did not see it coming. But it is really good you mentioned it. If possible I want to play all games as peroid correct as possible with all graphical features enabled.

smtkr wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:22:

FWIW, the Voodoo 3 would have been on the shelves at Best Buy when that CPU came out, so it would have been something fairly common at the time.

In terms of Geforce 2, any of them would be fine. Obviously, you get more speed out of Pro and Ultra variants, but the GTS will do fine for you. If you're totally concerned with performance, then there are Geforce 3 and Geforce 4.

I always tackle my vintage builds by thinking about what I'm trying to do. If I want a Geforce 2 system because that's what I would have built in 2000, then I would get a GTS because that's more than likely what I would have actually bought. If I want a fast system, I'll just build something that's not period correct but is way faster than any of the software needs.

Thanks for your recommendations. I come across higher tier geforce cards as well during my research about the gf2. Some of the GF 4 cards like the Geforce 4 4200 are priced quite good while o thers like the 4600 ti are priced much higher.

According to the info I found out online the Gf4 was indeed a good card, they seem a bit too "futurstic" for the pentium 3 800mhz and the socket 370 board. A GF 2 feels a bit more approriate.

There is no need for high power card if is bottlenecked by other components of the system.

The socket 370 is late 90s stuff and was replaced by the socket 423 in 2000 already if wiki tells the truth. Putting a 2002 high power card in such old system seems a bit too much.

A Gf 2 feels way more approriate.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though . I am a beginner in that topic so the changes are high I get things wrong.

Last edited by retep_110 on 2023-05-25, 06:59. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 16 of 27, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
retep_110 wrote on 2023-05-25, 06:39:

A Gf 2 feels way more approriate.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though . I am a beginner in that topic so the changes are high I get things wrong.

The GeForce 2 line is appropriate for an 800 MHz CPU, and you'll likely even have some GPU performance to spare.

One thing to note is that some cheaper GeForce 2 cards may have image quality issues (blurry picture). This can be fixed by a hardware mod, but if you don't want to bother with that, get a card from a reputable manufacturer like Hercules or ELSA. Since you're in Europe, it shouldn't be too hard to find ELSA cards.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 17 of 27, by retep_110

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-05-25, 07:07:
retep_110 wrote on 2023-05-25, 06:39:

A Gf 2 feels way more approriate.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though . I am a beginner in that topic so the changes are high I get things wrong.

The GeForce 2 line is appropriate for an 800 MHz CPU, and you'll likely even have some GPU performance to spare.

One thing to note is that some cheaper GeForce 2 cards may have image quality issues (blurry picture). This can be fixed by a hardware mod, but if you don't want to bother with that, get a card from a reputable manufacturer like Hercules or ELSA. Since you're in Europe, it shouldn't be too hard to find ELSA cards.

Thanks for info about the image quality. ELSA card are indeed quite common on online trading platforms and are also priced resonable. HERCULES cards too.

How about the GF2 Variants from Asus GF 2 variants? Were they decent as well?

Have studied some old reviews from my then favourite german mags PC Games, Pc Player and Gamestar and Elsa und Hercules got always quite good reviews. So Elsa or Hercules are the brands I will probably go with. Have not found a review about the Asus cards yet but they were also in the top carts in that magazine.

So they should be decent as well I believe? Later gen Asus cards also got good reviews.

Reply 18 of 27, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
retep_110 wrote on 2023-05-25, 07:21:

How about the GF2 Variants from Asus GF 2 variants? Were they decent as well?

Asus was a highly regarded brand as well. But I don't remember them being praised specifically for image quality.

IIRC, their strong points at that time were sturdily built cards with good cooling solutions and decent overclocking potential.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 19 of 27, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
retep_110 wrote on 2023-05-24, 09:00:
Greetings vogons. New guy from Austria here. I have been dreaming about a 3dfx System since my childhood/early teens but never […]
Show full quote

Greetings vogons. New guy from Austria here. I have been dreaming about a 3dfx System since my childhood/early teens but never could get one. I have been considering building a now retro vodoo system for quite some time already but have always postponed it due to high prices of the cards. But now I have the chance to get used 90s pc a HP Pavillion with a P3 800, socket 370 for almost nothing. I would not consider myself as superstitious but I still see it as sign to finally start with building plans. It is now or never the parts are not getting cheaper anytime soon. anyway.I have not seen the pc, this won't chance until the 10th of june when I can open it up by myself if anything is in order.

My now very generic and very noobish question is would be Pentium 3 800 with socket 370 and a voodoo 2 or vodoo 3 a good partners for gaming in general?

I do not mind if is going to be a Vodoo 2 or a 3 I would pick the one that is "cheaper".

Main field of application is going to be late 90s gaming (97 to 99 to be precise).

Thanks for your help in advance.

What board does this HP have?
If it has a i810 chipsetted board then your board won't have AGP and you will have to spend more to get a PCI 3dfx card.
As long as this system has AGP and is in working condition, you should be all set basically.
A P3 800MHz is more than adequate for a Voodoo2 or Voodoo3 system. It's a good fit 🙂

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!