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Most disappointing games?

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Reply 380 of 396, by Putas

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Kerr Avon wrote:
Rod Primitive wrote:
lowenz wrote:

Crysis 3: great technology, great budget, great voice acting.....half crysis 2 lenght. Totally flat story (no fuzzy interactions between Cephs and Prophet, now more Ceph than ever). More an expansion than a game.

IMHO Crysis 3 was all about Psycho being a crybaby because he lost his suit.

Crysis 1 was a great game. Crysis 2 is the best of the three, I think, even though it's areas tend to be less open and smaller than the first game. But for some reason, I found Crysis 3 to be pretty boring, it just didn't hold my attention at all.

With all three of them I have huge problem when they start throwing aliens at you. It turns from somewhat thinking's man shooter to most stupefying.
On a side note I played few hours of new Unreal Tournament and it is surprising how they emphasize trick moves. It might be closer to Quake than ever. Weapons have still bad rhythm to me, but I will be coming back.
Strange how much we debate first person shooters, How about Driver 3 disappointment for example? I felt bad for devs, at some point it seemed the game became laughing stock of the GTA loving internet.

Reply 381 of 396, by Kerr Avon

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Dreamer_of_the_past wrote:
Kerr Avon wrote:

Quake 3 is the only Quake I ever liked (I've played all four)

In order to be able truly judge each game of the series you have to play them in chronological order at the actual release time.

I did. I bought my first PC in 1996 (I'd been gaming on my mate's PC for three years before that, give or take), and played Quake 1, 2, and 3 as they came out. I didn't bother with 4, as I didn't like the look of it when it came out, but I eventually bought it used to give it a proper try. I wasn't impressed.

I'm one of the people who tends to think that id Software make great engines rather than great games. Doom 1 and 2 are fantastic games, admittedly, and I like Quake 3, but to me Unreal Tournament did so much more than Q3, and did it better, that Q3 was very much inferior to UT. Anyway, Doom 1, Doom 2, and Quake 3 are the only id games I like (I liked the 2008(?) Wolfenstein, but that was by Raven, I think).

Reply 382 of 396, by Dreamer_of_the_past

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Kerr Avon wrote:
Dreamer_of_the_past wrote:
Kerr Avon wrote:

Quake 3 is the only Quake I ever liked (I've played all four)

In order to be able truly judge each game of the series you have to play them in chronological order at the actual release time.

I did. I bought my first PC in 1996 (I'd been gaming on my mate's PC for three years before that, give or take), and played Quake 1, 2, and 3 as they came out. I didn't bother with 4, as I didn't like the look of it when it came out, but I eventually bought it used to give it a proper try. I wasn't impressed.

I'm one of the people who tends to think that id Software make great engines rather than great games. Doom 1 and 2 are fantastic games, admittedly, and I like Quake 3, but to me Unreal Tournament did so much more than Q3, and did it better, that Q3 was very much inferior to UT. Anyway, Doom 1, Doom 2, and Quake 3 are the only id games I like (I liked the 2008(?) Wolfenstein, but that was by Raven, I think).

It's a bit surprising to me since most Quake 1 players that I know did not recognize Quake II or Quake III for that matter. However, I understand that opinions vary. Raven is a great company, they gave us the Hexen series.

Reply 383 of 396, by AidanExamineer

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Kerr Avon wrote:

I'm one of the people who tends to think that id Software make great engines rather than great games. Doom 1 and 2 are fantastic games, admittedly, and I like Quake 3, but to me Unreal Tournament did so much more than Q3, and did it better, that Q3 was very much inferior to UT. Anyway, Doom 1, Doom 2, and Quake 3 are the only id games I like (I liked the 2008(?) Wolfenstein, but that was by Raven, I think).

I'm with you there. For my money Unreal beats the pants off of Quake II, and Unreal Tournament demolishes Quake 3. And yet, the Quake engine is what gave us Half-Life, so credit where it's due.

And of course that's just my experience. I work with a guy who was always a huge Quake fan, and regales me with stories of Quake LAN parties and Quake maps. I just lie back, and think of Facing Worlds.

Reply 384 of 396, by leileilol

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I can say I really hate how Quake multiplayer turned into an AEROWALK quakeworld notextures justified cheating winningiseverything scrubfest later on though. That's when I bailed out. Q3 had a similar fate with that Promode/OSP thing, FPS physics exploits and placebo config chicanery, and Q4 had a fate with the 1.4.1 patch uncheating the light cvar allowing all those whiners to play the game without any shadows at all bringing unfair advantages on official servers. Quake2, even though I hate it from the get go, didn't get any drastic seismic shift in the multiplayer stophavingfunguys department (beyond a bit of RocketArena faddery), probably due to how slow the vanilla game already plays.

by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x

Reply 385 of 396, by Putas

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leileilol wrote:

Q3 had a similar fate with that Promode/OSP thing

OSP brought common sense features that should have been in base game already. It made pure Q3 look so cumbersome I never looked back. Promode is matter of taste, maybe it could have brought Q1 players to Q3 and there was demand for new physics by some old time Q3 players to freshen things up. The emphasis on RG-LG combos was too much for me.

leileilol wrote:

FPS physics exploits and placebo config chicanery

I blame id for not ensuring same conditions for all players. If fps being a factor is a necessary price for tricks then I will accept that. Config chicanery is a must, people are dicks and hosts should be able to enforce what they want.

Reply 386 of 396, by leileilol

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It's the whole "u need 333 fps to jump higher lower all ur detail's and r_intensity 7 to see invisible ppl r_vertexlight 1 turn off shadow's cg_forcemodel 1 to keel fuck individuality" bullshit that killed Q3's scene in its later post-2002 years. It was a much more fun, fair and playable game when it was considered too graphically demanding for "pros", when they avoided that game for Quakeworld (which then had changes and such to 'legitimize' brightskins, flat textures, other cheats etc).

Quake4 repeated that history, and knowing what happened to Q3 before I played the shit out of the multiplayer from release as much as I could; a true Q3 renaissance as they also avoided this game.... until 1.4 that is.

Much of OA's new code has to do with recapturing the fairness Q3 once had - there's videoflags that are switched on servers to enforce no vertex light and insane picmips, there's pmove_fixed which doesn't allow the FPS physics exploits, etc. and the invisibility shader can't be r_intensity cheated since it's strictly modulated by the shader now, all as an awareness of the ComplacentGamingSyndrome disappointments of the previous games.

by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x

Reply 387 of 396, by Putas

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Why cheats? It is not players fault that frame rate affects physics, thus it may also improve fairness. Don't think it reduced it in some meaningful ways, not many of top players use such drastic settings, there is not much to gain. I don't recall the invisibility item ever being used in any serious match. I became one of those who prefer stuff like vertex lighting and lowest picmip -after few years. When you play a game for really long time, graphics candy become nuisance. Cutting off anything that does not help communicate game mechanics can make it more fun, rather than less. I don't see it contributing to "game dying".

Reply 388 of 396, by Dreamer_of_the_past

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I have to agree with leileilol on this one. I could never understand my friends with whom I was always playing with at my local LAN place. They had those supper pupper drupper configs from pros with crappy graphics while I continued playing the old way using regular in-game options and with all the eye candy set on maximum. You have to enjoy a game and not try to be best of the best in my opinion it's not a tournament after all. The same thing happened to WoW when it became too complicated for many players with a million of macros these days. Which is why I quit playing it 5 years ago. A game should be fun and not like a job.

Reply 390 of 396, by Dreamer_of_the_past

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Putas wrote:

You are using wrong premise: more graphics = more fun.

In this case for me it is. This is how the game was actually made in the first place. If I wanted to play something with lower graphics I would have been playing Blood, Doom, Duke Nukem 3D or Quake 1 instead of Quake III Arena. This is why people actually max out they retro rigs, because they want to play with all the eye candy.

Reply 391 of 396, by Putas

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I don't know what you mean by the game being made that way.
It does not make any sense to me to want to play older games because they have lower graphics, we play them for other merits. Pushing hardware/games to the max is very different kind of fun than the one we were talking about.

Reply 393 of 396, by leileilol

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and one with that off in multiplayer, vs the usual that play with them on by default, can lead to unfair advantages.

Unbalanced graphics = unfairness = no fun = dead scene = disappointing game

it's akin to taking a bike race with many who are "dopestrong" without your knowledge and I know Quake , Q3 and Q4 didn't kick off their online multiplayer like this from day one. The worst bad sign for Quake early on were those rocket jumper alias scrubs that would just press a key to automatically fire a rocket under themselves, and it's gone downhill from there.

id did try to do something about it in Q3 with sv_pure so all content is enforced to be the same for all clients, to deter modified player skin cheats, super loud footstep sounds, etc. The intention was clear. Heck even the new MD3 format has a limited fixed size to prevent people from modifying models to add super big crosses for PVS cheats (as such "pro standard" happens in Quakeworld)

Last edited by leileilol on 2016-03-08, 03:59. Edited 1 time in total.

by the way, DOSBox is not for running Windows 9x

Reply 394 of 396, by Dreamer_of_the_past

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Putas wrote:

I don't know what you mean by the game being made that way.
It does not make any sense to me to want to play older games because they have lower graphics, we play them for other merits. Pushing hardware/games to the max is very different kind of fun than the one we were talking about.

You seems to misunderstand me or trying to change things around. Nobody is saying that everything is about graphics. Gameplay does the major part. What I was saying is why should you sacrifice on betters graphics and not to enjoy it at the same time? Hm...how should I explain it to you...For instance, you don't play Quake 1 at 320 by 240 resolution when you can play it at 1024x768? Do you?

Reply 395 of 396, by Putas

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leileilol wrote:

Unbalanced graphics = unfairness = no fun = dead scene = disappointing game

I am all for balance and fairness and how lack of those ruins fun. But how do you apply this to Q3, and "dead scene" being a result of it (I have to put it into quotes because for me q3 thrived after 2002, your declared death) I cannot get. How did you discard other factors to decreasing popularity of the game, like, for example, it just got old to them or people moving on onto squad based shooters?

leileilol wrote:

The worst bad sign for Quake early on were those rocket jumper alias scrubs that would just press a key to automatically fire a rocket under themselves, and it's gone downhill from there.

Binded rocket jump can do just that one thing, so no good players do that. If you felt in disadvantage, get good.

leileilol wrote:

id did try to do something about it in Q3 with sv_pure so all content is enforced to be the same for all clients, to deter modified player skin cheats, super loud footstep sounds, etc.

That is all fine, however, if that kind of play did not become popular is it because all the players were cheaters?

Dreamer_of_the_past wrote:

What I was saying is why should you sacrifice on betters graphics and not to enjoy it at the same time?

I already answered that.

Reply 396 of 396, by cdoublejj

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BioShock Infinite, just didn't live up to BioShock 1. Story was also bit out there and drug out like Dragon Ball Z or BioShock 2. Also BioShock 2, terrible awful story and writing. Fallout 3 while it may be a good game in it's own right it has nothing to do with the original Fallouts, except for lore. They could have given it a different name and altered lore and it would be as adored as it is now.