Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-03-25, 14:57:

Gothic 3. After the exceptional Gothic 2 and a very solid Gothic 1, I expected the same level of quality from the third game when it came to the combat and world design. Unfortunately, the only good thing about Gothic 3 was the music.

The game shipped in an unfinished state, with a combat system that didn't even remotely resemble the previous games. It also used a highly unoptimized engine, which made the game run like crap, and crashed way too frequently. Even after applying all the official and fan-made patches, Gothic 3 still fell short of reaching the quality of its predecessors.

The developer's next game - Risen tried to make up for this and mostly succeeded. It is pretty much what Gothic 3 should have been. Sadly, their reputation was already tarnished by that time.

I remember the first two games being extremely buggy as well. From what I remember they were patched though and became somewhat stable, at least to a playable level.

I really liked the graphics of these games, not polygon count perhaps but the draw distance was impressive, making them very immersive.

I know you all are going to shoot me but I HATE all the Dark souls games. They control poorly and simply require a bunch of replay and memorization, terrible gameplay traits. I've tried to play several of these games a few times always thinking I must be missing something and each time I come away realizing they are crap.

I feel like in another decade or so everyone will admit this to be true...espcially if From actually releases a game that doesn't control like moving dog poop across the ground with a stick of butter.

Come at me bro.

newtmonkey wrote on 2022-03-26, 14:52:

Ultima VIII: Pagan
Once I got over the great soundtrack and nice animation, I soon realized what a massive disappointment this game was (and is). No party, even worse combat than in Ultima VII, no character portraits, a world that felt completely artificial compared with the impressive worlds of Ultima VI and VII, and an overall structure that felt more like Zelda than Ultima. I've tried getting into this game several times since then, but it's just not interesting at all, even if I go in pretending it's just this game called Pagan unrelated to Ultima.

This is still on my playlist to "replay" after bailing on the game back when it first came out. Same complaints as you. My hope is that nostalgia will prevail, but for some odd reason, when it's time to pick a new game, I always pick something else. Eventually I'll whittle my playlist down enough that it'll be one of my only options.

As an aside, I got back into retro gaming back in late 2015, shortly after obtaining my current MS-DOS retro PC. Since then, I've gone through and replayed many DOS and Win9x favorites and mixed in some games I never played from back then as well as some more modern games. I enthusiastically got through almost the entire Origin Systems collection. About the only ones I've continued to pass on are U8 and Bioforge. Here's my completed games list from 2015 to present:

I remember watching a co-worker struggle with the super mario jumping in Ultima VIII, it looked horrible. I never get past watching the guy get his head chopped off on the dock. Maybe someday.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-03-26, 15:13:

I know you all are going to shoot me but I HATE all the Dark souls games. They control poorly and simply require a bunch of replay and memorization, terrible gameplay traits. I've tried to play several of these games a few times always thinking I must be missing something and each time I come away realizing they are crap.

I've only played through DS: Remastered, but to me it felt like a fighting game (e.g. Street Fighter) in the guise of an action/RPG. The core combat mechanics rely heavily on distance, timing and counterattacks, which is right in line with traditional fighting games. Not to mention the move sets for different weapons, emphasis on learning patterns and replaying sections, plus general overall difficulty.

IMHO, people's enjoyment of DS likely comes down to how one calibrates their expectations for such a game.

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-03-26, 15:24:

I've only played through DS: Remastered, but to me it felt like a fighting game (e.g. Street Fighter) in the guise of an action/RPG. The core combat mechanics rely heavily on distance, timing and counterattacks, which is right in line with traditional fighting games. Not to mention the move sets for different weapons, emphasis on learning patterns and replaying sections, plus general overall difficulty.

IMHO, people's enjoyment of DS likely comes down to how one calibrates their expectations for such a game.

I've played through every game in the Dark Souls series several times (including Demon's Souls, but not Bloodborne, and am playing through ER currently), and I agree 100% with this. They are primarily action games, but the combat is based mostly on distance and timing rather than twitch reflexes. The giant bosses seem intimidating, but the general strategy is always just to stay out of range of their attacks and look for openings; just like a fighting game. It's a very deliberately-paced game that rewards being cautious and learning how enemies move/attack before closing in on them.

Fighting games are a precision affair with tight hit boxes and hit priorities. I love fighting games. Dark Souls games may be like fighting games to some degree but its controls are sluggish and unresponsive. Just awful.

If they were to make a new Dark Souls but award fast action via tight controls and aggressive play, sort of like the Doom remake, I would probably like it.

Personally I don't think the controls are sluggish at all, unless you expect the game to play like a hack and slash, which it isn't at all. It heavily punishes button mashing, and you have to commit to your actions, especially when it comes to swinging heavier weapons. As mentioned above, the combat is all about learning the enemy's moveset and knowing your openings, not just to attack but also to heal.

I would say the main difference with a fighting game is that you don't have to learn very complex attack combos or button sequences, which is a blessing to me since I was always bad at that "X, X, hold triangle, rapidly tap square, X" type of stuff found in many action games.

Of course you can always use the RPG mechanics such as status effects to simplify (and even trivialize) most enemies, and most players will want to do this to some extent in order to avoid learning the entire enemy moveset, but many no-leveling runs with just a basic weapon can be found on YouTube that show the amount of precision that can be achieved in the combat. This would be pretty much unfeasible if the controls were not responsive enough.

Shagittarius wrote on 2022-03-26, 17:57:

Fighting games are a precision affair with tight hit boxes and hit priorities. I love fighting games. Dark Souls games may be like fighting games to some degree but its controls are sluggish and unresponsive. Just awful.

If they were to make a new Dark Souls but award fast action via tight controls and aggressive play, sort of like the Doom remake, I would probably like it.

It probably feels sluggish because of both the wind-up for attacks coupled with the fact your character is slower at the beginning of the game. This is highly deliberate especially for bigger, heavier weapons. They're designed to feel like they have real-world weight to them.

There are light weapons in the game that when coupled with leveling one's character up, results in much faster combat action. But you have to work through the early leveling to get to that point.

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-03-26, 18:26:

but many no-leveling runs with just a basic weapon can be found on YouTube that show the amount of precision that can be achieved in the combat. This would be pretty much unfeasible if the controls were not responsive enough.

I love how SL1 runs shows how much skill is a factor in this game as opposed to level/stats-grinding in typical RPG-style games.

Far Cry 2. I really hated that game compared to the first one.

Has someone mentioned Interstate 82?
I was so stoked to get it and while it was OK it was pretty underwhelming...

Carrera wrote on 2022-03-28, 08:11:

Has someone mentioned Interstate 82?
I was so stoked to get it and while it was OK it was pretty underwhelming...

I never tried it, afaicr. I do have it, but can't remember playing it. Interstate 76 was a blast though 😜

They did away with the in car view which almost made it a non starter for me... And then you had to solve a lot of missions on foot... getting out of the car... NEVER GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!

kolderman wrote on 2022-03-26, 21:19:

Far Cry 2. I really hated that game compared to the first one.

Tbf the second half of the original is worse than the entirety of the sequel.

Carrera wrote on 2022-03-28, 10:43:

They did away with the in car view which almost made it a non starter for me... And then you had to solve a lot of missions on foot... getting out of the car... NEVER GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!

Kinda odd they even wanted this. Being in the car rigged with weapons is what basically made Interstate 76 so much fun ^^

Carrera wrote on 2022-03-28, 08:11:

Has someone mentioned Interstate 82?
I was so stoked to get it and while it was OK it was pretty underwhelming...

I only played the demo, while I like that it ran on the same tech as Heavy Gear 2... I hated the fact it was reduced to "Twisted Metal" style gameplay where everything is a health bar, there's no concept of directional damage and internal component damage.

Carrera wrote on 2022-03-28, 10:43:

They did away with the in car view which almost made it a non starter for me... And then you had to solve a lot of missions on foot... getting out of the car... NEVER GET OUT OF THE CAR!!!

I mean, there's plenty of cutscenes in I76 where they're out of the car discussing whatever. There's even scenes in the intro that never actually happen in the TRIP. (and also depict the other hand weapons that were never implemented)

Being able to bail out of a car and get into another one was a rather nice feature, at least.

Call of Duty - ALL VERSIONS

HL has a dedicated fan base due to nostalgia of a bygone era of LAN parties at a local college
Also RVB used to be an early youboob favorite

DOOM: Eternal.

The mechanics of DOOM 2016 were just perfect. For the new game they changed the keyboard layout and introduced this damn pick-up mechanic and you absolutely have to use the chainsaw all the time to progress.

It just feels like too much at once. The first game was a challenge, the second one feels like a chore with all of the things you have to do. And also...what is that ridiculous plot with the weird space fortress?

Yeah, yeah I know...git gud. But ain't nobody got time fo dat.

schmatzler wrote on 2022-03-28, 21:35:

DOOM: Eternal.

Agreed. I got bored after 2 hours playing this one.

The addition of the Tomb Raider style platforming and wall climbing just felt wrong for a Doom game.