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Archive.org lawsuit

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First post, by tannerstevo

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https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/06/p … ending-program/
This could be really bad.
There is so much preserved there , and it could be all lost.

Reply 1 of 30, by blurks

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To be honest, they really have a lot of (still) copyrighted material on their site without taking care of having the proper license or agreements. I love archive.org and the wayback machine but I can somehow relate to the publishers mentioned in the article. Archive.org should be a little bit more careful what they archive and make publicly available (and what they accept for their software library whose significant portion already consists of software with questionable license status).

Hopefully they can find a solution out of the court.

Reply 3 of 30, by rmay635703

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blurks wrote on 2020-06-07, 09:47:

To be honest, they really have a lot of (still) copyrighted material on their site without taking care of having the proper license or agreements.

I love archive.org and the wayback machine but I can somehow relate to the publishers mentioned in the article.

Hopefully they can find a solution out of the court.

Under certain circumstances entities such as them should be more or less exempt.

Further under current circumstances their actions are benevolent.

The 100 or so years it takes to public domain was primarily to benefit a single company,
I would argue non-fiction given its limited shelf life should have at the least government/ educational exemption before standard limits.

Most people understand the above as common sense and practical, now gotta enforce the matter.

kolderman wrote on 2020-06-07, 10:35:

Never heard of this library. Nothing to do with the wayback machine.

Exactly, absolutely no financial loss to anyone pushing the matter given the limited scope and the intended users, case should be thrown out with an expectation to create new law to cover this unique situation / use / entity / case.

Reply 7 of 30, by tannerstevo

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kolderman wrote on 2020-06-07, 20:53:
tannerstevo wrote on 2020-06-07, 18:58:
kolderman wrote on 2020-06-07, 10:35:

Never heard of this library. Nothing to do with the wayback machine.

What?
Did you read the article?

Yes.

Four of the nation's leading book publishers have sued the Internet Archive, the online library best known for maintaining the Internet Wayback Machine. The Internet Archive makes scanned copies of books—both public domain and under copyright—available to the public on a site called the Open Library.
No. You did not read.

Reply 9 of 30, by tannerstevo

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kolderman wrote on 2020-06-07, 21:40:

Whut. I said the library has nothing to do with the wayback machine. They are completely different technologies. Banning the library is not banning old versions of websites.

They are affiliated so they are the same. Do you not get that?
READ THE ENTIRE THING!!!!!!!

Reply 10 of 30, by dr_st

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I think the concern is that if the IA is forced to pay "damages" to the publishes over the theoretical loss of sales, this could bankrupt the entire endeavor, and then everything might be forced offline, including the Wayback Machine.

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Reply 11 of 30, by tannerstevo

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dr_st wrote on 2020-06-07, 21:56:

I think the concern is that if the IA is forced to pay "damages" to the publishes over the theoretical loss of sales, this could bankrupt the entire endeavor, and then everything might be forced offline, including the Wayback Machine.

Yes exactly.

Reply 12 of 30, by kolderman

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It's a charity that runs on donations. I am not sure there is anything to bankrupt. They did not make any money from their "book lending" so I doubt the publishers are going to go for the jugular. They will probably just force the "library" offline.

Reply 13 of 30, by Errius

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I'm surprised Wayback Machine has lasted as long as it has. There's a lot of stuff behind paywalls which can be read on the WM because it was free some time in the past. I won't say this hasn't been useful to me, but the legal problems are obvious. Web hosting companies are also unhappy that taking offensive/controversial materials offline doesn't actually remove them from the internet, as they still remain available on the WM.

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Reply 14 of 30, by maxtherabbit

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Errius wrote on 2020-06-07, 23:18:

Web hosting companies are also unhappy that taking offensive/controversial materials offline doesn't actually remove them from the internet, as they still remain available on the WM.

that's a good thing, fuck those who would seek to rewrite history and/or censor

Reply 15 of 30, by dr_st

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Everything about Archive.org is good, including their activities, that under current legislation are illegal. Unfortunately, copyright territory is one area where law and common good frequently diverge.

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Reply 16 of 30, by ZellSF

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kolderman wrote on 2020-06-07, 22:50:

It's a charity that runs on donations. I am not sure there is anything to bankrupt. They did not make any money from their "book lending" so I doubt the publishers are going to go for the jugular. They will probably just force the "library" offline.

They will try to get as much money as they can get. Why wouldn't they?

I'm not sure how the legal concept of bankruptcy relates to charities, but the concept of not having the money to run their other services, because they're forced to pay publishers should be pretty obvious?

Reply 17 of 30, by kolderman

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ZellSF wrote on 2020-06-08, 06:07:
kolderman wrote on 2020-06-07, 22:50:

It's a charity that runs on donations. I am not sure there is anything to bankrupt. They did not make any money from their "book lending" so I doubt the publishers are going to go for the jugular. They will probably just force the "library" offline.

They will try to get as much money as they can get. Why wouldn't they?

I'm not sure how the legal concept of bankruptcy relates to charities, but the concept of not having the money to run their other services, because they're forced to pay publishers should be pretty obvious?

Because suing people who have no money is a waste of time...and money (unless you are after something else like a takedown). And I suspect the IA like similar sites basically run on a shoestring budget and depend on a trickle of money coming in from donors. I doubt they have a big pile of cash sitting in the bank. Unless they are forced to auction off old servers for a few thousand dollars (which seems unlikely). And any ruling cannot take into account future donations, so they could spin up another org tomorrow to run the wayback machine, and new donations would be unaffected. I think I lot of people would contribute to save the WBM, I would.

Reply 18 of 30, by dr.zeissler

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the wayback machine is essential to me, hopefully this thing will be active as long as possible.

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Reply 19 of 30, by The Serpent Rider

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That's related to books only though. At worst, they'll remove book archive completely, but most of us probably are more concerned about obscure software and site copies. Then again, they could use experience from manga sites and move servers where west oriented publisher can't do anything.

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