IBM bought Lotus? Or did they just pirate the name? Isn't that a blast from the past (no not Benny Cisco). Lotus 123, Symphony, etc. Anyone using that stuff at all? I'm sure a topic like that deserves its own thread.
Yes, in 1995.
When demand is there, things get ported to new forms. e.g. Roland MT-32 ---> MUNT. And subsequently mt32-pi.
Many who missed out on (acceptably priced) real versions, simply learn to love these new replacement and-in-some-ways-superior iterations. Thus achieving virtually the same results, and comparable satisfaction - job done.
I’m having trouble accepting that anything about a ceramic pentium/486 has a shelf life measurable on a human time span, maybe a geological timespan or even a cosmic one,
I literally plugged a pentium in the other day that had been outside in the rain and sun for probably 20 years and it worked fine 🤣
Luckily I'm significantly older than a lot of my retro hardware, so I will die first😁.
Then I want to be pushed out to sea in a viking longboat with all my gear and set on fire with a flaming arrow!
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charliegolf wrote on 2022-02-21, 18:18:Luckily I'm significantly older than a lot of my retro hardware, so I will die first😁.
Then I want to be pushed out to sea in a viking longboat with all my gear and set on fire with a flaming arrow!
No need for flaming arrow, just have some early Athlons set up on the longboat, set to all run simultaneously ...with no heatsink.
It genuinely surprises me how some of these components are even still alive in 2022. Especially some of the later stuff like 3DFX cards when most 90s computer cases had bad or non existent airflow to keep things cool. You had OEMs building Pentium machines with dinky passive heatsinks. Maybe only the PSU fan to exhaust all the heat. Its just torturous to a modern temperature freak 😁
I don't know if that is a result of better quality standards, or just pure luck. There are tons of Voodoo's from 97 alive and kicking. Yet we already are starting to see some 10 series GPUs go up in smoke 😜
Do you mean entire mobos or just the cpu's? An entire motherboard lasting an extended period of time would be a marvel. Just the cpu, not so much. The cpu is the last component to fail under "norrmal" circumstances. Perhaps the plethora of cpus that still work were pulled from mobos that died. The various mobo components aren't built to the same standards, don't have the same degree of longevity built into them. If they were, there were likely be as high an occurrence of dead cpus. The engine in my Grandn Prix might last to 300k miles. The radio died aroumd half that mileage. There are loads more working 3800s then there are accomanying radios it seems. Granted thenengine receives consistent maintenance, eh most of the time. But the 3800 is one of the most resilient engines on the road, far and away, because of the way it was designed.
It may seem like a painfully obvious point. But just consider that the lower quality mobo components act as a fuse for the cpu. When things get too real, the cheaper componentz give up the ghost. And the cpu lives on.
Look at all the dead core series chips on ebay. They're not impervious.
A motherboard simply has more potential points of failure than a CPU. I don't think it's necessarily lower standards or quality. Besides bad capacitors and leaking batteries they usually last a long time. I have XT motherboards with all original components that still work fine.
Say you've got a CPU that's got a 99% chance of working after 10 years... great. Say you've got a motherboard that has 100 components that each have a 99% chance of working after 10 years... grr-not-so-fast... that's 0.99 to the power of a hundred, so 36.6% chance of the motherboard working in 10 years....
Well hopefully 1% failure in 10 years is actually a pretty high chance of failure and it's better at 0.1 ... but that still gives you a 90% chance of still alive for 100 parts in lose formation vs 99.9 of a single one.
Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.
Plasma wrote on 2022-02-22, 01:10:A motherboard simply has more potential points of failure than a CPU. I don't think it's necessarily lower standards or quality. Besides bad capacitors and leaking batteries they usually last a long time. I have XT motherboards with all original components that still work fine.
And for your 1 working xt motherboard I've seen a few dozen that don't work. And yes corrosion and bad passive components have a lot to do with failures over long periods of time. But I'd bet anything in the cases wher1 a chip goes bad, 10 to 1 at least it's a peripheral ic, not the micro. I personally have never seen a failed cpu. You usually have to really torture them for failure.to occur.
I might have killed a Cyrix PR166 (133 stock actual) that I ran at 83x2 for 5 years at 3.5V but while I've had CPUs turn up flaky from collected junk, I've never known what happened to them before that.
Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.
chris2021 wrote on 2022-02-22, 01:53:Plasma wrote on 2022-02-22, 01:10:A motherboard simply has more potential points of failure than a CPU. I don't think it's necessarily lower standards or quality. Besides bad capacitors and leaking batteries they usually last a long time. I have XT motherboards with all original components that still work fine.
And for your 1 working xt motherboard I've seen a few dozen that don't work. And yes corrosion and bad passive components have a lot to do with failures over long periods of time. But I'd bet anything in the cases wher1 a chip goes bad, 10 to 1 at least it's a peripheral ic, not the micro. I personally have never seen a failed cpu. You usually have to really torture them for failure.to occur.
How many ICs are on a motherboard? Probably at least 10x more than the number of CPUs. It's statistics.
I have had a Celeron 333 and an Athlon 2800 fail. Neither was abused. The Celeron ran 24/7 for over a decade. I popped in a new one and the system kept going until it was retired.
I have also had several motherboards fail. In all cases but one I was able to repair them. When motherboards "don't work" the problem is usually a single component that can be replaced.
I don't think iv run into a dead CPU yet. I've killed CPUs with my own stupidity before, but never one that just decided to quit on its own 😜
A CPU is usually the last point of failure i worry about. They seem pretty tough. Motherboards/RAM on the other hand....
And the amount of transistors on a cpu is probably multiples of every other chip. By all rights it should be more prone to failure then any other chip.
It depends on the configuration but RAM is usually the most. 1 GB of RAM is more than 2x the transistors in a Core i7.
Yes ram could exceed the tranny count. And ram is multiple times more likely to fail then the cpu.
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-02-21, 21:50:charliegolf wrote on 2022-02-21, 18:18:Luckily I'm significantly older than a lot of my retro hardware, so I will die first😁.
Then I want to be pushed out to sea in a viking longboat with all my gear and set on fire with a flaming arrow!No need for flaming arrow, just have some early Athlons set up on the longboat, set to all run simultaneously ...with no heatsink.
Good point!
YouTube:
66Mhz Brain
I bet the mobo burns up quicker 😀
chris2021 wrote on 2022-02-22, 07:37:Yes ram could exceed the tranny count. And ram is multiple times more likely to fail then the cpu.
That's my point. The RAM isn't necessarily lower quality than the CPU.
