Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:01:

In gaming sessions it automatically takes up 1gb of vram for itself and 3gb in no load.

It's funny, even with how enormous the Linux kernel can get with all the modules piling up, when I boot this system and I actually get into a X session and check the RAM usage, it's only around 390~ MB in use out of 31.3G possible. Not even when I used to use Windows 7 would I see a initial RAM usage be below 1 GB like this, on a 64-bit kernel.

That's before I start up Firefox and the like, and of course, Firefox requires several GB of RAM for really no reason other than there's memory leaks as par for the course with webbrowsers these days.

I misread this title as "Leak of Windows 3.11".

On topic, I never upgraded from Windows 7, so I'll pass on this too. Doing just fine using linux for daily tasks and consoles for "modern" gaming.

DracoNihil wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:36:

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:01:

In gaming sessions it automatically takes up 1gb of vram for itself and 3gb in no load.

It's funny, even with how enormous the Linux kernel can get with all the modules piling up, when I boot this system and I actually get into a X session and check the RAM usage, it's only around 390~ MB in use out of 31.3G possible. Not even when I used to use Windows 7 would I see a initial RAM usage be below 1 GB like this, on a 64-bit kernel.

That's before I start up Firefox and the like, and of course, Firefox requires several GB of RAM for really no reason other than there's memory leaks as par for the course with webbrowsers these days.

Yeah. And the win Fanbois procliam Xwindows is slow. What a joke that is. The reason for this claim is but but Wayland.......

Firefox ESR runs perfectly fine on my 2gig P4 set up running 32bit Linux Mint Debian Edition. And I run it with around 15 or more pinned tabs. I clear the cash regulrally which most folk don't bother to do. It got up to 1gig when did it last time.

konc wrote on 2021-06-17, 07:06:

That's a tablet UI. Another attempt in merging both worlds?

I still don't get MS contently focusing on tablets.
I actually use touch screens a fair bit having to support POS machines and in this regard the newer UI since Windows 8 is easer to use.

but out of the total number of devices with Win10 installed I can't image the percentage that support touch screen breaking double figures.
and even those that do like the Surface 1/2 the time the person still uses a keyboard and mouse anyway?

DracoNihil wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:36:

It's funny, even with how enormous the Linux kernel can get with all the modules piling up, when I boot this system and I actually get into a X session and check the RAM usage, it's only around 390~ MB in use out of 31.3G possible. Not even when I used to use Windows 7 would I see a initial RAM usage be below 1 GB like this, on a 64-bit kernel.

It's just that Windows and Linux are optimized for different things.

Windows is optimized for people who want to use the RAM in their machines.
Linux is optimized for people who want to check the RAM usage every 10 minutes and get off on how low it is. 😀

Is this going to devolve into yet another Linux vs windows thread?

It always does. It's also always the same folks who start it. 😉

I'm not turning this into a "Linux vs Windows" nor am I being a "fanboy", I'm just stating a observation I've noticed with resource usage with Windows, that's all...

I doubt my father's PC's going to last long until the supposed 2025 EOL deadline for Windows 10, but I wouldn't be surprised if I wake up one day and find it running Windows 11 sooner than that date. I already can't stand how changed the UI's become from Windows 7 to 8, and 11 looks like it's just going to change everything around and throw me into a loop all over again.

Is this why people buy those shell replacements for Windows 10?

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:01:

Windows is getting heavier day by days. In gaming sessions it automatically takes up 1gb of vram for itself and 3gb in no load. Windows XP was the last time Windows was "properly optimized".

Windows XP wanted 2X the memory of the previous Windows consumer aimed OS. Also, you can't say something is "properly optimized" just because you like it.

dr_st wrote on 2021-06-17, 08:08:

zyzzle wrote on 2021-06-17, 05:14:

Just awful rubbish. Rounded edges are for kids, cheapens it and makes it look like a damn toy.

So you prefer the square flat look of Win8/Win10 to the rounded look of Vista/7? Is that even possible on VOGONS? 🤣

Lots of people here regularly use Windows 9x, which doesn't have rounded edges, so I'm not sure why you're surprised.

DracoNihil wrote on 2021-06-17, 11:46:

Is this why people buy those shell replacements for Windows 10?

Most people don't. The only major UI difference between Windows 7 and 8/10 is the start menu, and Open Shell is free.

Well I suppose the Explorer toolbar feels different to some people. To me it's just replacing one waste of space (the command bar) with another waste of space (the ribbon). OldNewExplorer is free too.

I really don't understand people who avoid going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 over UI differences. With a few minutes of work it'll be functionally identical.

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 12:23:

I really don't understand people who avoid going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 over UI differences. With a few minutes of work it'll be functionally identical.

I feel it's like what I said in another thread. At some point in life, some people just lose the willingness to invest these few minutes. Or they just get scared of anything unfamiliar.

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 12:23:

I really don't understand people who avoid going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 over UI differences. With a few minutes of work it'll be functionally identical.

I don't think UI changes are the primary issue of the majority of people who refused to upgrade to Windows 10.

For me, it was mostly privacy concerns and updates which randomly break things that made me switch over to linux permanently. I had been dual-booting Windows 7 and Arch Linux for 5 years before that.

SPBHM wrote on 2021-06-16, 13:34:

the start menu is something I haven't really used much in a very long time outside of typing something using the search

well, that's because they made it pretty useless to be used it for anything else, while requiring you to use the search to be even able to find anything.
remember those times where you could start a program from the start menu just from muscle memory in a split second because you knew exactly where to click and nothing changed position constantly without ever touching your keyboard?

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:25:

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 10:01:

Windows is getting heavier day by days. In gaming sessions it automatically takes up 1gb of vram for itself and 3gb in no load. Windows XP was the last time Windows was "properly optimized". I would say even Android or Linux or iOS is better 'always connected' and 'live' device than Windows Vista and later.

Windows now requires a complete remodelling internally.

To have need that much ram just to display an image on a monitor is ridiculous.

Recently I was playing Just Cause 4 and the memory usage was over 8.4GB, used Mem Reduct to clear RAM and usage went to 2.4GB., lower than what Win10 used for me without any task running and here it was running a game.

imi wrote on 2021-06-17, 12:50:

SPBHM wrote on 2021-06-16, 13:34:

the start menu is something I haven't really used much in a very long time outside of typing something using the search

well, that's because they made it pretty useless to be used it for anything else, while requiring you to use the search to be even able to find anything.
remember those times where you could start a program from the start menu just from muscle memory in a split second because you knew exactly where to click and nothing changed position constantly without ever touching your keyboard?

Remember? I still have my start menu set up like that.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-17, 12:49:

For me, it was mostly privacy concerns and updates which randomly break things that made me switch over to linux permanently. I had been dual-booting Windows 7 and Arch Linux for 5 years before that.

Windows 7 isn't much better in the privacy department. Any telemetry Microsoft wants will have been backported to Windows 7 via updates. If you don't have any updates, well that's a privacy nightmare as your privacy can be entirely compromised by visiting the wrong web page.

I will also say, if your problems with Windows 10 privacy is something you heard, not something you experienced yourself, then do remember people hate Windows 8 and 10. They will exaggerate, or even lie, to make it seem worse than it is.

Of course, ultimately, Microsoft doesn't care about your privacy (and neither does Apple, they'll pretend to as long as it helps their sales of course). If privacy is a concern, Linux is really the only option, but the OS is still pretty far down on the list of privacy concerns most people should think about.

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:25:

Recently I was playing Just Cause 4 and the memory usage was over 8.4GB, used Mem Reduct to clear RAM and usage went to 2.4GB., lower than what Win10 used for me without any task running and here it was running a game.

RAM is meant to be used, that 8.4GB would either

1) Mean the next time you re-launch Just Cause 4 it would launch much faster because it's still in RAM
2) Be instantly relinquished when another application asks for it.

Don't use memory clearing utilities without any idea what memory is used for. Most likely you're just making your computer perform worse overall, so you can look at a smaller number in that one screen.

The UI changes with 10 suck but my problem with 10 is that it's a rolling dumpster fire of instabilities and then theirs the countless updates that screw up your computer, delete your files, corrupt your windows install requiring a full reinstall, ECT,ECT

Anecdotes aside. Windows 10 updates are mostly stable, otherwise you would see more companies switching away from Windows 10.

dr_st wrote on 2021-06-17, 12:41:

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 12:23:

I really don't understand people who avoid going from Windows 7 to Windows 10 over UI differences. With a few minutes of work it'll be functionally identical.

I feel it's like what I said in another thread. At some point in life, some people just lose the willingness to invest these few minutes. Or they just get scared of anything unfamiliar.

It’s not just the appearance. It’s the user experience. UI/UX are very, very connected in any website, app or operating system.

Windows 7 is nothing like the classic Win 9x/2k (“welcome ribbons”), has a terrible login screen experience (Windows 10 has the worst), and the user experience in both 7 and 10 for me was extremely bad compared to classic Windows.

“Few minutes”? I have a W10 VM I created just for two things: Grand Prix 4 game and to retrieve a digital certificate for my work as an independent small entrepreneur, from my government, which allows me to generate the invoices for the work I do. I ported the certificate to my Mac so I never have to turn it on again. To make Win 10 bearable and useable for me, I had to spend a full day customizing it (disabling several data/telemetry collection, UI patches, attempt to disable automatic updates, modifying the registry to bring it to be close to a classic windows as much as possible). Still, the result is far from desired. I’d rather run Win XP with the classic theme.

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:31:

Windows 7 isn't much better in the privacy department. Any telemetry Microsoft wants will have been backported to Windows 7 via updates. If you don't have any updates, well that's a privacy nightmare as your privacy can be entirely compromised by visiting the wrong web page.

Well, a fully up to date Windows 7 didn't show me any targeted ads in the OS itself, back when I was still using it. So I don't think they backported everything. 😉

Anyhow, my use case is such that linux is good enough for all of my day-to-day tasks. The only advantage of Windows 10 (for me) is better gaming support. And, as mentioned before, I have consoles for those few modern games that actually interest me. Other people may have different use cases of course.

DosFreak wrote on 2021-06-17, 11:09:

Is this going to devolve into yet another Linux vs windows thread?

When I mentioned linux it was an idea of what MS could do to “revolutionize” Windows, by boldly using the linux kernel. But this will never happen, even though they have a botched attempt to support linux with the WSL.

On the off-topic WSL discussion, it apparently has sort of native support of graphical applications in insider builds. I wonder how far off we are from setting up WINE on it being an easy solution for compatibility with games.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:48:

ZellSF wrote on 2021-06-17, 13:31:

Windows 7 isn't much better in the privacy department. Any telemetry Microsoft wants will have been backported to Windows 7 via updates. If you don't have any updates, well that's a privacy nightmare as your privacy can be entirely compromised by visiting the wrong web page.

Well, a fully up to date Windows 7 didn't show me any targeted ads in the OS itself, back when I was still using it. So I don't think they backported everything. 😉

That's just Windows 10 showing you what data they have collected on you vs Windows 7 not showing you. That's not really a privacy difference (unless someone else logs in to your computer and sees it).