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Do you dislike the British?

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Reply 40 of 100, by weedeewee

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Anders- wrote on 2021-07-12, 19:13:

I think a star trek "prime directive - don't interfere" approach would have caused less problems.

Personally, I think the episode 'First Contact' s4e15 explains it better.

Reply 41 of 100, by Jasin Natael

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I am American.

I have never been to the U.K. and I don't personally "know" and English people well, however my neighbor is originally from Wales I believe it is. She is a very nice lady.

I don't dislike anyone of any nationality by default, I certainly don't harbor any ill will towards Brits due to the Revolutionary war or anything silly like that.

If I had to guess I would say most people are pretty chill with British people as a whole. They don't really have a negative reputation on this side of the pond, people worldwide don't despise the English.

Americans on the other hand seem to catch a lot of hate the world over......

Edit: I couldn't care less about football, be it the American or the worldwide (soccer) version.

Reply 42 of 100, by digger

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I have some English coworkers whom I haven't been able to see in person for some time, due the pandemic. I genuinely miss them and I look forward to the day where I can meet with them in the same office again. And as much as this sounds like a lame "some of my best friends are gay" excuse: honestly, I do not dislike the British.

As imperfect as they are, they have also bought us some very good things, notably some classic sitcoms with the best humor ever, from Blackadder to Fawlty Towers.

Honestly, it's a bit silly to dislike an entire people based on their nationality. Even if something as contentious as football/soccer enters into it. 😉

Last edited by digger on 2021-07-12, 20:56. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 43 of 100, by brostenen

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Jo22 wrote on 2021-07-12, 14:52:
Reminds me of that oldschool song "The living years" by Mike & The Mechanics. […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 14:14:
gaffa2002 wrote on 2021-07-12, 13:23:
Sorry, but I think this is a huge oversimplification of things. A lot of current world problems are due to the colonization, so […]
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Sorry, but I think this is a huge oversimplification of things.
A lot of current world problems are due to the colonization, so It's not just a matter of blaming someone's ancestors. It's a matter of seeing a lot of bad stuff happening to people today just because they were born in a specific place, and on the other hand seeing other people living a much better and easier life for the same reason but acting as nothing ever happened. A lot of people will get resented for that and I don't think they have "low intelligence" because of that thinking.
Point is, the ancestors may be the ones that did unfair things, but the descendants are sure as hell still enjoying the benefits while wanting to pretend nothing ever happened.

I don't know about the impacts of Pearl Harbor or Nazism to someone living in US or Europe, but speaking of colonization impacts, what basically happened here in Brazil was that Europeans came, reduced the local natives to almost nothing, then once there were not enough native slaves, brought an estimate of 12 million slaves from Africa, then once slavery was not sustainable anymore (it officially ended during very late 1800s), European colonizers came in to work in relatively much better conditions and the slaves were just cast aside to less desirable regions. That happened a little more than 100 years ago (which is nothing). So, of course it caused really bad social and cultural impacts that persist strongly until today, and I believe similar problems are still happening in other colonized countries as well.
Should those problems be solved by the countries themselves? Of course! Trying to help would make it even worse, actually. It's just that people from colonizer countries must face the fact that colonization is still very recent and did far more bad than good, and some kind of resentment should be expected before things heal up, which may take a while.
Personally, I don't hate anyone because of nationality (neither should I as I'm of European ascendancy, which gave me a lot of privileges, in a personal level, I have nothing to complain about), but I can't deny that it bothers me when I see people from privileged countries forgiving themselves for the colonization or trying to imply that we all have the same opportunities now. I really do believe the intentions behind that kind of speech are good and honest, but unfortunately they only end up adding to the resentment.

I will explain it more simple then. People are living in the past, blaming people what previous generations have done.

You can put every issue under that umbrella.

Reminds me of that oldschool song "The living years" by Mike & The Mechanics.

"Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agC7SoihH-o

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_%26_the_Mechanics

Regarding songs.... Then John Lennon spoke the truth in the song named Imagine.
Just look at how well we can behave here on Vogons. This is like when we all come together as one.

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Reply 44 of 100, by brostenen

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gaffa2002 wrote on 2021-07-12, 15:09:
For you it may be in the past, but for a lot of people it is still the present being affected. We are not responsible for the p […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 14:14:

I will explain it more simple then. People are living in the past, blaming people what previous generations have done.

You can put every issue under that umbrella.

For you it may be in the past, but for a lot of people it is still the present being affected.
We are not responsible for the past before us, but we cannot deny it defines most of how our life is going to be in the future. If one was born in a more privileged place, this person is in no position to decide in how people in less privileged places should feel about how unfair things are.
Plus, in implying that everyone has equal footing and no right to complain, you are also implying that people from poorer countries are somehow less capable, don't you think?
Yes, every issue can be under the same umbrella in different degrees and contexts, and that's exactly the reason why this kind of topic should not be viewed in such a simplistic way.

If only more people would see what John Lennon spoke about in Imagine. Nothing to kill or die for, and the world would be as one.
If you combine it with what he spoke about in Working Class Hero, and make sure nobody else will be that class he is giving the spotlight.
All it takes, is to shake yourself free of and out of the chains of history.
Like we don't go around and hate the Swedish people or Germans for invading us. Or even hate the English for terror bombing Copenhagen in 1807.

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Reply 45 of 100, by brostenen

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keenmaster486 wrote on 2021-07-12, 15:37:

Also, the British Empire was good, actually, and should be restored

I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified.
Yes you will loose the right to own all those weapons, though you will get good healthcare as a substitude.

Something for something, right? 😁

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Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 46 of 100, by wiretap

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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:09:
I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified. Yes you will loose the right to own […]
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keenmaster486 wrote on 2021-07-12, 15:37:

Also, the British Empire was good, actually, and should be restored

I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified.
Yes you will loose the right to own all those weapons, though you will get good healthcare as a substitude.

Something for something, right? 😁

Yea that wouldn't fly haha. Half the country doesn't already realize they have the "free" "good" healthcare and that it wouldn't change under single payer. Then the other half of the country works for a living and already has quality private healthcare. Then despite what the news says, nobody on either side would give up their firearms. You'd have to be mentally slower than a criminal to do that.

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Reply 47 of 100, by Jasin Natael

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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:09:

I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified.
Yes you will loose the right to own all those weapons, though you will get good healthcare as a substitude.

Something for something, right? 😁

This is correct. You will not find many, if any who feel this way.

It is kind of stupid to even say so.

Americans are a largely patriotic people and we certainly don't feel indebted in ANY way to Great Britian.

King George III has been dead a VERY long time.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-07-12, 21:38. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 48 of 100, by Stiletto

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DosFreak wrote on 2021-07-12, 13:26:

Blackadder and Red Dwarf make up for everything else.

And let's not forget Douglas Adams, part of the reason why these forums were named the way they were 😀

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Reply 49 of 100, by brostenen

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wiretap wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:24:
brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:09:
I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified. Yes you will loose the right to own […]
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keenmaster486 wrote on 2021-07-12, 15:37:

Also, the British Empire was good, actually, and should be restored

I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified.
Yes you will loose the right to own all those weapons, though you will get good healthcare as a substitude.

Something for something, right? 😁

Yea that wouldn't fly haha. Half the country doesn't already realize they have the "free" "good" healthcare and that it wouldn't change under single payer. Then the other half of the country works for a living and already has quality private healthcare. Then despite what the news says, nobody on either side would give up their firearms. You'd have to be mentally slower than a criminal to do that.

Exactly my point that you bring up. But the British Empire had America as a colony. However it was not all US states, that fell under the British crown, now that I think about it. So I guess some new borders will be drawn, or old ones reinstated. Depending on how you look at it. 😉

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
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Reply 50 of 100, by brostenen

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:27:
This is correct. You will not find many, if any who feel this way. […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:09:

I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified.
Yes you will loose the right to own all those weapons, though you will get good healthcare as a substitude.

Something for something, right? 😁

This is correct. You will not find many, if any who feel this way.

It is kind of stupid to even say so.

Americans are a largely patriotic people and we certainly don't feel indebted in ANY way to Great Britian.

King George III has been dead a VERY long time.

My point were only, that if the British Empire were to be restored back. Then a lot of land will be under the British crown again.
Personally I think that it would be a bad idea. However restoring the British Empire, will result in things like that.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 51 of 100, by wiretap

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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:41:
wiretap wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:24:
brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:09:

I don't think you will find many US citizens, that want the US constitution to be nullified.
Yes you will loose the right to own all those weapons, though you will get good healthcare as a substitude.

Something for something, right? 😁

Yea that wouldn't fly haha. Half the country doesn't already realize they have the "free" "good" healthcare and that it wouldn't change under single payer. Then the other half of the country works for a living and already has quality private healthcare. Then despite what the news says, nobody on either side would give up their firearms. You'd have to be mentally slower than a criminal to do that.

Exactly my point that you bring up. But the British Empire had America as a colony. However it was not all US states, that fell under the British crown, now that I think about it. So I guess some new borders will be drawn, or old ones reinstated. Depending on how you look at it. 😉

I would concede New York and California. That should be plenty of space for new colonies 🤣 It would be a win-win.

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Reply 52 of 100, by mrwho

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In short: no. I know some nice British folk, and I know there are a bunch of British assholes. But then again, that can be said about just any country/nationality/ethnicity/whatever.

About soccer, I don't enjoy it. So I was glad when my country was eliminated, that lowered the talk about it to a bearable minimum.

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Reply 53 of 100, by gaffa2002

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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:03:
If only more people would see what John Lennon spoke about in Imagine. Nothing to kill or die for, and the world would be as one […]
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gaffa2002 wrote on 2021-07-12, 15:09:
For you it may be in the past, but for a lot of people it is still the present being affected. We are not responsible for the p […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 14:14:

I will explain it more simple then. People are living in the past, blaming people what previous generations have done.

You can put every issue under that umbrella.

For you it may be in the past, but for a lot of people it is still the present being affected.
We are not responsible for the past before us, but we cannot deny it defines most of how our life is going to be in the future. If one was born in a more privileged place, this person is in no position to decide in how people in less privileged places should feel about how unfair things are.
Plus, in implying that everyone has equal footing and no right to complain, you are also implying that people from poorer countries are somehow less capable, don't you think?
Yes, every issue can be under the same umbrella in different degrees and contexts, and that's exactly the reason why this kind of topic should not be viewed in such a simplistic way.

If only more people would see what John Lennon spoke about in Imagine. Nothing to kill or die for, and the world would be as one.
If you combine it with what he spoke about in Working Class Hero, and make sure nobody else will be that class he is giving the spotlight.
All it takes, is to shake yourself free of and out of the chains of history.
Like we don't go around and hate the Swedish people or Germans for invading us. Or even hate the English for terror bombing Copenhagen in 1807.

What? No! I never said anything about hating anyone.
As for your examples on Swedish or German invasions, perhaps that's true today, but I really doubt it was like that during the following years after the invasion... there was a required time to "heal", so to speak. It all depends on the damage done, and in case of the colonization, it was a huge damage caused throughout many years (imagine an invasion that lasted centuries), so the healing time tends to be bigger.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about blaming anyone for the world problems, I'm talking about a more neutral and analytic view of the world, to acknowledge and understand the real reasons why some places are doing better than others (and not blame it on whoever is living in such places), and even to some extent understand and respect why there is such a resentment towards the privileged in the current context.
Nowadays, the usual behavior I see from people in more developed nations is to simply pretend we are all equal and having discussions like that always bring the same old "Let it go, man! It was in the past" or "Stop complaining and do something" kind of argument. In other words, discussing and understanding inequality became a taboo, a sign of "weakness".
This kind of environment is what causes resentment to escalate to hate IMHO.

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Reply 54 of 100, by creepingnet

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No, I like the English and have some friends over there. I also visited the country in 2017 and got along surprisingly well as a tourist, England, and Europe (Holland/Germany). I have my critiques, but in truth, everywhere is pretty close to the same on the surface these days.

I think the hatred is mostly political related and I'll abstain as MUCH as I can because I'm not so sure about that stuff on this site. Basically, there's, what I'll call a culture of "Bruh Patriotism". Basically the flag waving, bible thumping, big-domestic-truck driving, I-have-a-relative-in-the-armed-services guy with a big red baseball cap and huge chip on his/her shoulder who refuses to understand why anywhere in the world would be different. Basically, people who are refusing to see our country for both it's successes and achievements, and it's folleys and failures, and only choose to see the other side.

On a flip side, there's a counter-culture of people who poo poo the country blindly and would say England is BETTER than America because XX or YY.

Basically it becomes this stupid pissing contest. The truth is, as one who has gone out of the country myself, all places have their ups and downs, plusses and minuses. Or as a friend of mine from a former job said "You take the good with the bad", though we were talking about states, not countries at that point.

The reason it's so prevalent on the internet right now is because we are in a politically tumultuous period in history. This tends to generate a lot of hatred both for our own, and other cultures, so of course people are taking to the internet from the media to politicians themselves, to we the people, and while a lot of it might be a good exercise of the 1st amendment of our constitution, a lot of it is also toxic, ill-thought-out, and outright wrong.

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Reply 55 of 100, by mr.cat

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My favorite phrase "it's more complicated than that", seems so apply quite well...
That said, the problems are usually rooted in the government and not the people.
I really don't want to delve into politics too much, but colonization didn't stop with the British. It's still going on today, just in a different form.
Jared Diamond wrote some books about the subject and basically it boils to this: Geography was the reason for Europe's successes vs. the rest of the world.

Reply 56 of 100, by Anders-

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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:03:

Like we don't go around and hate the Swedish people or Germans for invading us.

Danskjävel 😁 😁 😁

I think it would take a whole lot to upset the relations between the countries in northern europe, we're not just neighbours - we're brothers.
(denmark, norway, finland and sweden)

Edit: not talking about politics, but about the people.

Reply 57 of 100, by brostenen

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Anders- wrote on 2021-07-12, 22:37:
Danskjävel :D :D :D […]
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brostenen wrote on 2021-07-12, 21:03:

Like we don't go around and hate the Swedish people or Germans for invading us.

Danskjävel 😁 😁 😁

I think it would take a whole lot to upset the relations between the countries in northern europe, we're not just neighbours - we're brothers.
(denmark, norway, finland and sweden)

Edit: not talking about politics, but about the people.

Yup.... We are brothers these days. So much, that we can talk hardcore trash to each other, laugh at it and then share a beer. 😉
If you provide the Volvo, then I provide the cheap beer. Then we can pick up a Norwegian that brings some nice moose for the BBQ.

EDIT:
We just pick up the Norwegian, and then we can kill the moose with the Volvo. It is build like a tank anyway. 😁

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Reply 58 of 100, by Bruninho

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No, I do not. In fact, I was cheering for England to win the Euro against Italy, after Spain was eliminated because the refs did not give a penalty due to a handball by Chiellini. I also have some british friends, from when I used to be a simracer 12 years ago.

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Reply 59 of 100, by Jo22

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gaffa2002 wrote on 2021-07-12, 22:01:

Nowadays, the usual behavior I see from people in more developed nations is to simply pretend we are all equal and having discussions like that always bring the same old "Let it go, man! It was in the past" or "Stop complaining and do something" kind of argument. In other words, discussing and understanding inequality became a taboo, a sign of "weakness".
This kind of environment is what causes resentment to escalate to hate IMHO.

I understand that point of view and the logic behind it is not wrong. 😀
But it can also be seen the other way round, sometimes.

In Germany, for example, situation is in reverse, young people constantly get reminded of WW2.
They would be happy if a person from another nation would tell them "Let it go, man! It was in the past" from time to time.
Alas, they can't just "let it go". They are constantly being reminded of the past.
So much in fact, that some of them feel bad for their nationality, despite being not responsible for the past themselves.
They get reminded in school, through politicans who always apologize to other nations, media newspapers/TV documentaries..

And each time a single person goes crazy and does a bad thing, even he/she isn't German at all,
say at a school, several generations are being blamed altogether for still being racist and/or
hostile against immigrants, people of color, Jewish people etc.

Especially the later is strange, because in 21th century, I think, students rarely have any aversion against that group of people.
Why should they, I mean? They have usually no relationship/no contact to them these days.
All that bad propaganda that happened in WW2 happened ~80 years ago.
Most eyewitnesses passed a way years ago or must be 90+ years old by now.

Considering all of this, I think it's a miracle that young people are still so calm/relaxed and civil in that country.
Normally, someone should expect that this constant, never-ending blaming on their history/nationality must cause a
form of hate or resentments. Gratefully, it doesn't so far.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to judge.
Also, I think remembering history is very, very important for doing better next time
and for not repeating the same mistakes over and over.

I think it's just that, on the other hand, todays people around the world have no control over their pasts.
So dealing with them as if they were sons and daughters of criminals isn't exactly a good thing to do either
when it comes to peace and harmony.

Also, many people that live today in Germany don't have gotten any benefits from the actions of their predecessors.
I mean, there was little left after war. Most people back then started rebuilding everything from scratch.

PS: I hope that wasn't too off-topic or too annoying. 😅
Another, alternate example would have been that ongoing gender debate that seems to separate people worldwide. 😉

Edit: Formatting cleaned up.

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