Maybe XP might be remembered also for a nostalgic reason as one memorable period in computer market when pc was the common wanted main digital device. Some'd say computers sold well even later or lately but I suppose slowly more as an 'home furniture' for the average consumer once the portable devices became the new thing to have, not for the professional developer, cad designer, etc.. obviously. I imagine before the pandemic situation make people reconsider things like "smartworking"/"high-end gaming with RGB lights sport cars shaped chairs" and the marketing around reevaluated back the pc again a useful device, most ones were probably taking often dust somewhere in the house or at least much less used than in the past, once other portable devices replaced it for common tasks.
But XP as other previous o.s. became the latest version that just did what was expected to from a user point of view in a fast stable way. Then times added more and more sw services instead of being added on demand. A game might now run together with hundreds of background processes and online based app stores as only place to buy and even launch games (and not everyone might afford expensive internet contracts to download huge amount of installation data instead of just buying a single game on disks maybe later at discount prices).
Imho this evolution make old o.s. superior because a single sw/hw felt optimized to do its job in the simpler way and people might have decided or not which softwares or whatever needed. Similar subject was discussed when HL2 game was released with the online requirement, store launcher, remote data extraction, as something that before was never ever needed so felt just wrong when the game/disc was already bought from the store and expected just to be installed/launched like every other games always were.

Not going to miss diagnosing random XP Home PCs....

leileilol wrote on 2021-08-29, 20:14:

Not going to miss diagnosing random XP Home PCs....

Elderly people that bought a Celeron Emachines with 128mb of ram in 2003, circa 2012: "I paid over $1k new, what do you mean it will be slow no matter what?"

It was funny/sad saw someone selling a Dell P4 machine just a few months ago... "Paid over $1500 just a few years ago, barely used it, so it's still brand new, sacrifice $800."

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-08-30, 02:18:

It was funny/sad saw someone selling a Dell P4 machine just a few months ago... "Paid over $1500 just a few years ago, barely used it, so it's still brand new, sacrifice $800."

And it's probably worth more today than it was 10-15 years ago.

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-08-30, 02:18:

It was funny/sad saw someone selling a Dell P4 machine just a few months ago... "Paid over $1500 just a few years ago, barely used it, so it's still brand new, sacrifice $800."

A few years ago=2003 😉

ODwilly wrote on 2021-08-30, 01:55:

leileilol wrote on 2021-08-29, 20:14:

Not going to miss diagnosing random XP Home PCs....

Elderly people that bought a Celeron Emachines with 128mb of ram in 2003, circa 2012: "I paid over $1k new, what do you mean it will be slow no matter what?"

Personally, though, I don't want to diagnose anything past Windows 7, either.
On Win2k-Win7 you do at least know what to expect.
On Windows 8 and later, the system changes randomly and you have to deal with two control panels, which are more difficult to work with than regedit.

It's even worse than Linux, I think. Linux distros do at least have version numbers for differentiation.
On Windows, you have build numbers, at best. 😟

Anyway, each to his own. I'm just glad that I'm not running Windows anymore (as my main OS).
- Don't get me wrong, I'm neither a Linux fan nor a Windows hater. It's just that I'm tired of bloatware and fighting Windows' own will.

Even on Windows 7, I noticed how Windows tried to interfere more and more with my actions. It didn't allow me creating folders in certain places, wanted to continously check my USB pen drives, install updates and reboot when I was working. Windows 8+ even went further and deleted programs without asking,

Sure, certain stuff could have been disabled in registry.
But that's not the point. The whole attitude of Windows changed from an assisting OS to being a total control freak.
That's when I decided for myself to abandon Windows.

Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 04:31:

Personally, though, I don't want to diagnose anything past Windows 7, either. On Win2k-Win7 you do at least know what to expect […]
Show full quote

ODwilly wrote on 2021-08-30, 01:55:

leileilol wrote on 2021-08-29, 20:14:

Not going to miss diagnosing random XP Home PCs....

Elderly people that bought a Celeron Emachines with 128mb of ram in 2003, circa 2012: "I paid over $1k new, what do you mean it will be slow no matter what?"

Personally, though, I don't want to diagnose anything past Windows 7, either.
On Win2k-Win7 you do at least know what to expect.
On Windows 8 and later, the system changes randomly and you have to deal with two control panels, which are more difficult to work with than regedit.

It's even worse than Linux, I think. Linux distros do at least have version numbers for differentiation.
On Windows, you have build numbers, at best. 😟

Anyway, each to his own. I'm just glad that I'm not running Windows anymore (as my main OS).
- Don't get me wrong, I'm neither a Linux fan nor a Windows hater. It's just that I'm tired of bloatware and fighting Windows' own will.

Even on Windows 7, I noticed how Windows tried to interfere more and more with my actions. It didn't allow me creating folders in certain places, wanted to continously check my USB pen drives, install updates and reboot when I was working. Windows 8+ even went further and deleted programs without asking,

Sure, certain stuff could have been disabled in registry.
But that's not the point. The whole attitude of Windows changed from an assisting OS to being a total control freak.
That's when I decided for myself to abandon Windows.

i've never known windows to uninstall something that i installed without me involved!

windows 10 irritates me with its constant updating which tends to cripple the pc for an hour or so now and then, I really don't understand why it needs to dominate the whole machine rather than gently update in the background (regardless of settings or attempts to change it). I do like that windows 10 can *still* cope with a surprising amount of legacy software though, and while some people still like to adopt the anti-Microsoft position of yesteryear ("micro$oft" and all that tiresome stuff) it is ok on the whole

however linux has moved on so much from the over promises of the past; 'ready for the desktop' that only linux zealots on usenet in the year 2001 could like. It is now actually and genuinely easy to install and use, it is frankly surpassing windows for day to day PC use - except for some applications and many games. in this sense the liking for XP may be nostalgia for the fact that XP was, in its time, very easy to use and relatively free of install and use problems compared to rivals. not so anymore.

windows 11 will introduce hardware constraints related to 'security' and also appears not to have offline install mode, that may be the point where there is no point in using windows anymore - the use of PC's and laptops relative to other devices is dropping anyway, not so sure PC gaming future as big as its past anyway

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

i've never known windows to uninstall something that i installed without me involved!

I think maybe the Flash player stuff that came built-in with Win10 for a while?

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

windows 10 irritates me with its constant updating which tends to cripple the pc for an hour or so now and then, I really don't understand why it needs to dominate the whole machine rather than gently update in the background (regardless of settings or attempts to change it).

It downloads the updates in the background, but perhaps updating in the background while stuff is running is a challenging task. The problem is the inability to disable automatic updates (giving you full control over where and when),

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

while some people still like to adopt the anti-Microsoft position of yesteryear ("micro$oft" and all that tiresome stuff) it is ok on the whole

Yesteryear, ha! To me it feels as tiresome as the late 90s. 😜

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

windows 11 will introduce hardware constraints related to 'security' and also appears not to have offline install mode

Pretty sure Pro/Enterprise will have an offline install mode and everything.

Personally I usually use both o.s. Win 8.1 and 'Linux / Lxde / Lxqt' depending on the period. It's almost a decade I am learning/using linux without many regrets cause at the end it did "mostly" the same tasks with a similar level of speed than Win and older hardware did have the possibility to still survive on it, even if it's clear how much specific proprietary win drivers/sw are often optimized and tend to use hw as good/much as intended. This advance anyway often is compensated negatively from the many background not often necessary apps installed too that make the final experience (on low end machines) slower than it could be. Also in Linux when the system is in Idle state, it really is mostly 0-5% CPU usage, less CPU/GPU heat, no continuous updates, hard disk continuous work, virus search or whatever background self running logic that might also not be needed.
But anyway also linux kernel became quite heavy lately and has left behind older hardware. GPU support is good for Intel and AMD based chips but on the NV gpus the open drivers has limits and the proprietary is usually updated until a certain point/release. What I like of Linux is that you can customize the final o.s. choice if you want a minimal light system or full heavy one, while in Win I see so many services/processes self installed I don't even know when I might ever need those for. More or less that's why XP felt so good cause the less the better until is a user choice to install what is really needed.

1) The old games compatibility is acceptable.
2) No MetroShit...
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpvWX1pxKI

dr_st wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:37:

I think maybe the Flash player stuff that came built-in with Win10 for a while? […]
Show full quote

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

i've never known windows to uninstall something that i installed without me involved!

I think maybe the Flash player stuff that came built-in with Win10 for a while?

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

windows 10 irritates me with its constant updating which tends to cripple the pc for an hour or so now and then, I really don't understand why it needs to dominate the whole machine rather than gently update in the background (regardless of settings or attempts to change it).

It downloads the updates in the background, but perhaps updating in the background while stuff is running is a challenging task. The problem is the inability to disable automatic updates (giving you full control over where and when),

if its flash then its ok 😀, well its an OS component not something I installed anyway

I've encountered the windows 10 updating grind on several machines, it is worse on modest machines - but when i say modest i mean relatively up to date budget laptops that otherwise do just fine with computationally heavy tasks. agree about controlling updates, but i wouldn't mind updates if they didn't get in the way of other processes quite so much

about windows 11 - if there are low (enough) cost versions with offline then i may well forgive it 😀

things did seem easier back in XP days though, nostalgia only perhaps

Because it is crystal clear and extremely comfortable

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 14:50:

things did seem easier back in XP days though, nostalgia only perhaps

No, certain things were definitely easier; others harder. I'm sure we all remember fondly the 'Press F6 to load SATA/AHCI driver' and Bugcheck 0x7E after switching SATA modes. 😜

"Keyboard error. Press F1 to continue"

Ok that wasn't XP but still funny when happened. 😁

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

i've never known windows to uninstall something that i installed without me involved!

System restore can possibly lead to .exes missing...

Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 04:31:

But that's not the point. The whole attitude of Windows changed from an assisting OS to being a total control freak.

Windows stepped firmly into the new era of user control with SP2 of XP. MS needed to reign in the security nightmare their own prior works had created, and to do that, they chose to impose work upon their users by thrusting various aggressive "notifications" and click-throughs into every possible process.

A raft of security policy changes under the code name Springboard brought in things like the nagging Security Center, a paranoid and fragile new Windows Update, new protocols like UAC and DEP, and various default changes which would have been nice but for the fact they still put a lot of onus on clueless users who could not actually be trusted to make the correct choices.

It's much improved these days in Windows 10, but it's still a far cry from the quiet set-and-forget world that is a quality modern breed of Linux. I run both Linux and Windows in the household, and only one of those two flavours is prone to randomly make the machine unavailable for unknown chunks of time upon startup and/or shutdown due to updates, or even restart the machine of it's own volition, or throw up marketing nag screens pushing me into it's other products, or include actual advertisements, or change settings without telling me, or constantly force me to click a placating "Yes yes, it's ok!" to every little babying notification. Only one required me to run around disabling Print Spoolers a few months back and then explain to my family members why they'd have to come to me and have me babysit them every time they wanted to print during a 0-day week.

My main point is that the control-freak nature of Windows was a direct reaction to the extremely poor security practices their consumer OS's had followed up until then, and all the annoying/nagging/controlling stuff which came after would not have needed to exist if not for their desperate need to correct their own shortcomings. In doing so, they socialised the cost onto the user base, in the form of extra work & interruptions day-to-day. Ongoing even now, albeit at a much lesser rate of irritation.

Along these same lines (okay maybe same lines from previous page)....
Has anyone every looked at screenshots from some of the earlier tests of win95? It is really interesting to see how it "evolved" from 3.1
A while back I reinstalled win95 just for kicks after a decade of 98se. It seemed - somehow limited, you could more see some of the stuff that came form 3.1
I have always been fascinated with computer history

ncmark wrote on 2021-08-31, 20:53:

Along these same lines (okay maybe same lines from previous page).... Has anyone every looked at screenshots from some of the ea […]
Show full quote

Along these same lines (okay maybe same lines from previous page)....
Has anyone every looked at screenshots from some of the earlier tests of win95? It is really interesting to see how it "evolved" from 3.1
A while back I reinstalled win95 just for kicks after a decade of 98se. It seemed - somehow limited, you could more see some of the stuff that came form 3.1
I have always been fascinated with computer history

Same here. Although some try to alter it completely though.....

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

Jo22 wrote on 2021-08-31, 04:31:

Personally, though, I don't want to diagnose anything past Windows 7, either. On Win2k-Win7 you do at least know what to expect […]
Show full quote

ODwilly wrote on 2021-08-30, 01:55:

Elderly people that bought a Celeron Emachines with 128mb of ram in 2003, circa 2012: "I paid over $1k new, what do you mean it will be slow no matter what?"

Personally, though, I don't want to diagnose anything past Windows 7, either.
On Win2k-Win7 you do at least know what to expect.
On Windows 8 and later, the system changes randomly and you have to deal with two control panels, which are more difficult to work with than regedit.

It's even worse than Linux, I think. Linux distros do at least have version numbers for differentiation.
On Windows, you have build numbers, at best. 😟

Anyway, each to his own. I'm just glad that I'm not running Windows anymore (as my main OS).
- Don't get me wrong, I'm neither a Linux fan nor a Windows hater. It's just that I'm tired of bloatware and fighting Windows' own will.

Even on Windows 7, I noticed how Windows tried to interfere more and more with my actions. It didn't allow me creating folders in certain places, wanted to continously check my USB pen drives, install updates and reboot when I was working. Windows 8+ even went further and deleted programs without asking,

Sure, certain stuff could have been disabled in registry.
But that's not the point. The whole attitude of Windows changed from an assisting OS to being a total control freak.
That's when I decided for myself to abandon Windows.

i've never known windows to uninstall something that i installed without me involved!

Well, it happened a few times to me. Hm, let me think..
I think Virtual PC 2007 was one of the applications it removed.

Here's an article that mentions other programs.

https://www.howtogeek.com/243581/windows-10-m … without-asking/

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

windows 10 irritates me with its constant updating which tends to cripple the pc for an hour or so now and then, I really don't understand why it needs to dominate the whole machine rather than gently update in the background (regardless of settings or attempts to change it). I do like that windows 10 can *still* cope with a surprising amount of legacy software though, and while some people still like to adopt the anti-Microsoft position of yesteryear ("micro$oft" and all that tiresome stuff) it is ok on the whole

Me, too. Windows 7+ really increased the number of background tasks that do weird stuff.
My sister's older laptop is barely usable anymore, because Windows is constantly doing strange things in the background.
As if that wasn't bad enough, Windows randomly installs some updates that demand a reboot.
- I fondly remember the times when Windows 9x could switch colour depths and resolutions on the fly, without requiring reboots anymore.
It seemed like reboots were a thing of the past at the time.

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

however linux has moved on so much from the over promises of the past; 'ready for the desktop' that only linux zealots on usenet in the year 2001 could like. It is now actually and genuinely easy to install and use, it is frankly surpassing windows for day to day PC use - except for some applications and many games. in this sense the liking for XP may be nostalgia for the fact that XP was, in its time, very easy to use and relatively free of install and use problems compared to rivals. not so anymore.

Yes, that's true, I think. I started using Linux in the SuSe 6.x days, if memory serves
and hardware compatibility wasn't best back then.
Except if you were using popular hardware, of course.
But things like USB or Firewire, printers or webcams etc were rather badly supported at the time.

There's a joke video from 2008 that gives a good impression:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVO8RU9h88k

Since it's from so long ago, maybe it qualifies as a historic document already? 😉

gerry wrote on 2021-08-31, 08:19:

windows 11 will introduce hardware constraints related to 'security' and also appears not to have offline install mode, that may be the point where there is no point in using windows anymore - the use of PC's and laptops relative to other devices is dropping anyway, not so sure PC gaming future as big as its past anyway

I see. And it looked so promising at first. 🙁
I hope these things will change before Windows 11 reaches RTM status.