Hi and welcome! Looking forward to your socket 5 or 7 build thread 😀

Welcome. It's nice to see another vogons member who appreciates P4 systems ....😉

Welcome!

Nice to see someone who like a P4 Northwood, these were the most decent ones around the Intel NetBurst microarchitecture. I used to have one of these with HyperThreading support for a long time until 2008 even if they weren't the best at the time. 😁

Also interested to see your future Socket 5 or 7 build.

Welcome!

Socket 5 and 7 in particular are my favorites 😀
So I can let the P4 slide.....just kidding of course.

Welcome aboard Sven.

I'd just like to say welcome and good luck with your retro ventures. I for one would like to say that, it doesn't matter what you have; its how you use it.
The best top shelf expensive stuff isn't needed to enjoy retro computing. There will always be bugs to work out and this forum can help.
I have learned a few things here and hope you do to.

Ahoy! Welcome aboard! 🙂

I'm planning a little build (Socket 5 or Socket 7 based) on which I might have some questions in the future.

Sounds great! Both are wonderful for mid-90s fun!
Good luck!

“Möge der Saft mit dir sein!" 😁 (May the Schwartz be with you!)

Hi welcome. I have a p4 system as well, an Asus p4p800-e deluxe with a Asus ct479 adapter. Maybe it does not support voodoo 5 I have never investigated. I built it to be a wierd and beastly windows 98 computer. DOS support is limited but that's ok. I like to be able to throttle the CPU speed. It makes me warm and fuzzy.

DJMadMax wrote on 2021-09-08, 11:26:

I was a quiet reader on these forums for quite some time but decided that it would be a good idea to sign up for further interactions 😀 For example, I'm planning a little build (Socket 5 or Socket 7 based) on which I might have some questions in the future.

i think quite a few of the members took that approach, finding the board useful, enjoying many of the threads and then joining up. welcome 😀

Thank you all for the warm welcome 😀

Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-09-08, 21:37:

Welcome. It's nice to see another vogons member who appreciates P4 systems ....😉

Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-08, 21:48:

Nice to see someone who like a P4 Northwood, these were the most decent ones around the Intel NetBurst microarchitecture. I used to have one of these with HyperThreading support for a long time until 2008 even if they weren't the best at the time. 😁

The P4 Northwood C might even be my alltime favourite Intel CPU. Never again have I been able to overclock a CPU by 50% (custom watercooled back in 2003 or 2004). It was a Northwood C 2.4 GHz doing the 3.6 GHz as it was the most common thing on earth 😀

Jasin Natael wrote on 2021-09-08, 21:51:

Socket 5 and 7 in particular are my favorites 😀
So I can let the P4 slide.....just kidding of course.

I'll start a new thread in the appropriate area of the forum soon. Hope you wont be disappointed 😁

zapbuzz wrote on 2021-09-08, 22:38:

I'd just like to say welcome and good luck with your retro ventures. I for one would like to say that, it doesn't matter what you have; its how you use it.
The best top shelf expensive stuff isn't needed to enjoy retro computing. There will always be bugs to work out and this forum can help.
I have learned a few things here and hope you do to.

Well that's good to know, I already thought so 😀 I dont need "the" fastest possible machine of its era, thats often connected to enthusiast prices I'm definitely not willing to pay. But one or even two steps beyond that there's still plenty of performance left and that's what I'm focusing on in my future build.

Jo22 wrote on 2021-09-09, 03:32:

“Möge der Saft mit dir sein!" 😁 (May the Schwartz be with you!)

"May the 4th we'll be with you" 😁

Joakim wrote on 2021-09-09, 04:49:

Hi welcome. I have a p4 system as well, an Asus p4p800-e deluxe with a Asus ct479 adapter. Maybe it does not support voodoo 5 I have never investigated. I built it to be a wierd and beastly windows 98 computer. DOS support is limited but that's ok. I like to be able to throttle the CPU speed. It makes me warm and fuzzy.

Please dont try. It's an AGP 8x only, the Voodoo5 AGP boards need an AGP 2x slot (providing 3.3 volts).

Ok AGP campatibility is an interesting subject. Don't worry, I have no intention of trying, I'm not a voodoo fetishist and I like to spend my 500$ on more useful things.... Like a couple of sound canvases! 😉

Welcome Sven!
I was into Athlon XP during the times of PIV, but I do respect PIV too, especially Northwood ones.

Which CPU will you be using for that socket 7? (in case you opt for socket7, that is)

Welcome aboard 😀

I also used to ask relatives and friends if they ever decided to toss out their old computers, that they should toss them my way. But in the end I think only a small portion of all the stuff I gathered was from gifts.

Out of curiosity, did you ever dumpsterdive or buy stuff from places like fleamarkets and second hand shops?

Welcome, Sven. Good to see a Northwood fan here 😀

How is the second hand market in Germany? My wife is from Niedersachsen and we’ll be looking to move to Berlin next year. I’m hoping there is enough of a scene to get me out of this collecting over eBay hole I find myself in - currently in Hong Kong and paying way too much environmentally and financially.

Wilkommen aus Vogons... no I don't really speak German, just mangle it badly.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-08, 21:48:

Welcome!

Nice to see someone who like a P4 Northwood, these were the most decent ones around the Intel NetBurst microarchitecture. I used to have one of these with HyperThreading support for a long time until 2008 even if they weren't the best at the time. 😁

Also interested to see your future Socket 5 or 7 build.

I guess it's the Goldilocks P4, not too hot, and not too cold. 🤣

Joakim wrote on 2021-09-09, 18:32:

Ok AGP campatibility is an interesting subject. Don't worry, I have no intention of trying, I'm not a voodoo fetishist and I like to spend my 500$ on more useful things.... Like a couple of sound canvases! 😉

Yeah, Voodoo5s (as many other old hardware) is becoming more and more of a niche market even for collectors and prices are exploding. I'm sorry for everyone who's interested in this kind of computer history and has to start just now instead of maybe having collected stuff years ago when people were throwing their old computers out and sometimes even gave you money for picking them up so they didnt have to take care of proper disposal.

Tetrium wrote on 2021-09-09, 21:28:

Out of curiosity, did you ever dumpsterdive or buy stuff from places like fleamarkets and second hand shops?

See? I'm already learning so much new stuff here 😁 "dumpsterdive" - there isnt a word for that in German (well, maybe "Containern" as I think about it) but of course I know what it means 😀 Actually I only tried that once. Kind of a sad story - I was at my local recycling center, bringing over some garden stuff when I noticed a big container right behind where I was unloading the green cut. I went closer to have a look of what's inside and nearly got a heart attack. It was filled, literally up to the ceiling, with computers. Many in cases, some just as mainboards with CPU, coolers and RAM installed. At least a couple of hundreds of systems! I then asked the supervisor if it's possible to have a closer look and maybe take something back home (even for a fee) so they dont have to recycle/trash it, but nope... no chance. Either they knew what they had there or it was just a dude following policies. Flea markets on the other hand are a great source here in Germany. We have an online listing (www.marktcom.de) for almost every flea market coming up the next couple of weeks/months, therefore it's pretty easy visiting one every weekend if desired. Second hand shops like thrift stores are more clothing related here, I've never seen one for electronics and entertainment stuff which doesnt mean that they dont exist. I've just never come by one (and never especially searched for them, maybe I should).

pixelatedscraps wrote on 2021-09-10, 03:39:

How is the second hand market in Germany? My wife is from Niedersachsen and we’ll be looking to move to Berlin next year. I’m hoping there is enough of a scene to get me out of this collecting over eBay hole I find myself in - currently in Hong Kong and paying way too much environmentally and financially.

Second hand market in terms of private sales is pretty solid here. We have something like craigslist, it's called: www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de which would translate to "Ebay Classified Ads". I hope you and your wive are getting a nice salary, Berlin is one of the most expensive cities here in Germany.

Con 2 botones wrote on 2021-09-09, 20:47:

Which CPU will you be using for that socket 7? (in case you opt for socket7, that is)

Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-08, 21:48:

Also interested to see your future Socket 5 or 7 build.

I might go for an MMX build. Afair there's at least a 166 and a 200 MHz model in my collection - not sure about the 233 Mhz model though. I have two pretty interesting mainboards at hand but have to look them up exactly for which models they are. I do remember, one was from Chaintech but both have a proper ATX power and form factor, PS2 and USB ports, SDRAM, a CR2032 battery instead of those Dallas RTCs, AGP, PCI and ISA. I guess I'll go for an ATI PCI graphics card and a dual boot between DOS 6.22 + Windows 3.11 and Windows 95 - the latter is where USB comes in more handy. Oh, and Sound Blaster 16 ISA of course. Unfortunately I never had Adlib or Roland hardware, those might be pretty interesting too - but kinda expensive. I'm also planning to use one of these handy dandy IDE-adapters for Compact Flash, SD-Card or whatever is out there. Often heard of them, seen some in Youtube videos but never messed around with them myself. I do have some pretty old hard drives at around 400 to 100 MB but I really dont know if I wanna go through the hassle - especially when they're surely dying somewhen in the future due to their sheer age.

Besides the IDE adapter (and the appropriate flash drive I'll use), everything I'm planning to put into the system comes out of my collection. Well, with another exception maybe. Since I'm going for an ATX mainboard I'm kinda intrigued in installing the system into a brand new case with a nice side window and a bit of coloring. Normally you see it the other way around: lame cases with pretty awesome hardware in it - the typical "sleeper PC". I'm going the other way around: a neat looking, modern case with air flow, side window and RGB lighting... but "just" an old DOS machine inside of it 😀

BitWrangler wrote on 2021-09-10, 03:51:

Wilkommen aus Vogons... no I don't really speak German, just mangle it badly.

As long as my English's at least a bit comprehensible in terms of vocabulary and grammar, it might be easier for me to speak your language than the other way around 😁 I addition, feel free pointing out any minor or major mistakes. School was a long time ago and my only ways of keeping up my English skills is having conversations like those here (and watching movies in English since I like them the way they're meant to be and most of the jokes or sayings get lost in translation).

DJMadMax wrote on 2021-09-10, 11:41:

I might go for an MMX build. Afair there's at least a 166 and a 200 MHz model in my collection - not sure about the 233 Mhz model though. I have two pretty interesting mainboards at hand but have to look them up exactly for which models they are. I do remember, one was from Chaintech but both have a proper ATX power and form factor, PS2 and USB ports, SDRAM, a CR2032 battery instead of those Dallas RTCs, AGP, PCI and ISA. I guess I'll go for an ATI PCI graphics card and a dual boot between DOS 6.22 + Windows 3.11 and Windows 95 - the latter is where USB comes in more handy. Oh, and Sound Blaster 16 ISA of course. Unfortunately I never had Adlib or Roland hardware, those might be pretty interesting too - but kinda expensive. I'm also planning to use one of these handy dandy IDE-adapters for Compact Flash, SD-Card or whatever is out there. Often heard of them, seen some in Youtube videos but never messed around with them myself. I do have some pretty old hard drives at around 400 to 100 MB but I really dont know if I wanna go through the hassle - especially when they're surely dying somewhen in the future due to their sheer age.

Besides the IDE adapter (and the appropriate flash drive I'll use), everything I'm planning to put into the system comes out of my collection. Well, with another exception maybe. Since I'm going for an ATX mainboard I'm kinda intrigued in installing the system into a brand new case with a nice side window and a bit of coloring. Normally you see it the other way around: lame cases with pretty awesome hardware in it - the typical "sleeper PC". I'm going the other way around: a neat looking, modern case with air flow, side window and RGB lighting... but "just" an old DOS machine inside of it 😀

The P233MMX CPU is decent, you may need a motherboard with BIOS support for this and the 1.5x multiplier is interpreted as 3.5x for 233 MHz. For DOS I highly recommend to go for a S3 PCI card (especially ViRGE/DX or ViRGE/GX cards) for the best compatibility on Socket 5/7, ATI cards are decent but they have some incompatibilities.

You can check Gona's list if you want to see which card suits your needs for DOS (there are some obscure games btw):
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

Getting a SB16 ISA sound card will get you also AdLib support, but make sure that you get a model that has real OPL3 FM synth and has the least amount of bugs (especially regarding the MPU-401 support if you want to use Roland hardware). For more info see the following thread: Sound Blaster 16 Bugs and Deficiencies Summary

@Gmlb256
Uh, of course, S3 card! You're totally right. I'm not even aware if there are any ATI cards as mentioned by me, using Virge chipsets. An S3 Trio64 might also be a wise choice. An ATI Rage would be my choice (and in my possesion) if I wanted to use the AGP slot.
For the SB16, there are several versions im my collection and definitely some with the "good" Yamaha chips, thanks for pointing it out 😀

Oh and: This gigantic list of graphics cards and their DOS capabilities is AWESOME! 😀

EDIT:
I havent gone through each and every of my boxes yet but so far I've found:
CT2960 - SB Vibra 16C
CT4170 - SB Vibra 16XV
CT4180 - SB Vibra 16C

Those are all pretty new ISA cards with highly integrated SB16 chips. Are those generally okay?

I also have an AWE32 - the CT3900 model This might be the ultimate solution (in my case at least) but as of now that card sits in my 3Dfx-rig together with a V5 5500 AGP.

The two possible mainboards I mentioned would be:
Chaintech 5RSA0-D150
Gigabyte GA586-ATX

I guess I'll go with the latter since it's got dip switches and more expansion slots.

DJMadMax wrote on 2021-09-10, 13:05:

I havent gone through each and every of my boxes yet but so far I've found: CT2960 - SB Vibra 16C CT4170 - SB Vibra 16XV CT4180 […]
Show full quote

I havent gone through each and every of my boxes yet but so far I've found:
CT2960 - SB Vibra 16C
CT4170 - SB Vibra 16XV
CT4180 - SB Vibra 16C

Those are all pretty new ISA cards with highly integrated SB16 chips. Are those generally okay?

I also have an AWE32 - the CT3900 model This might be the ultimate solution (in my case at least) but as of now that card sits in my 3Dfx-rig together with a V5 5500 AGP.

Of the three SB16 cards stay away from the Vibra16XV as that one lacks proper support for high DMA and this reduces compatibility with several DOS games that uses the SB16 option for 16-bit mixing. Neither of them has a real Yamaha OPL3 chip there.

The AWE32 CT3900 may be the best one to use due to having an actual OPL3 integrated into the CT1747 chip.