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First post, by BEEN_Nath_58

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Sound Blaster Live! introduced with the EAX DSP for their sound cards, and Aureal had their A3D competitor. What proprietary feature Sound Blaster cards have in the Sound Blaster 16 to Sound Blaster AWE64 era?

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 1 of 10, by Oetker

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Well the SB16 introduced Creative's proprietary way of handling 16-bit sound, not many cards are compatible with that (its main competitor was the Windows Sound System). It also has the CSP What does the optional CSP chip on creative cards do?.
For the AWE cards it's obvious, the EMU8000 synth, which can be driven directly instead of using general midi.

Reply 2 of 10, by Joseph_Joestar

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AWE64 cards also have something called "Creative 3D Stereo Enhancement Effect".

AWE64 Manual wrote:

The Creative 3D Stereo Enhancement (3DSE) effect allows you to eliminate speaker crosstalk which occurs when two speakers are placed close together. With this effect enabled, mono and stereo sounds produced by your speakers will have increased depth and breadth.

I always turn this off, so I have no idea how it works in games.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 3 of 10, by BEEN_Nath_58

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Oetker wrote on 2022-05-05, 16:12:

Well the SB16 introduced Creative's proprietary way of handling 16-bit sound, not many cards are compatible with that (its main competitor was the Windows Sound System). It also has the CSP What does the optional CSP chip on creative cards do?.
For the AWE cards it's obvious, the EMU8000 synth, which can be driven directly instead of using general midi.

Did their method of handling 16-bit sound change something, like games made on that technology would need something proprietary to Creative or they won't work?

And IIRC EMU8K was for wavetable synthesis right?

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 16:42:

AWE64 cards also have something called "Creative 3D Stereo Enhancement Effect".

AWE64 Manual wrote:

The Creative 3D Stereo Enhancement (3DSE) effect allows you to eliminate speaker crosstalk which occurs when two speakers are placed close together. With this effect enabled, mono and stereo sounds produced by your speakers will have increased depth and breadth.

I always turn this off, so I have no idea how it works in games.

Can you remember me of a game using this? I swear I tried one, but now I forgot as it was long time ago.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 4 of 10, by Joseph_Joestar

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:09:

Can you remember me of a game using this? I swear I tried one, but now I forgot as it was long time ago.

Eradicator maybe? That game did use some more advanced features of the AWE cards, but I'm not entirely sure about the 3DSE thing.

Here's a gameplay video of Eradicator on an AWE64, courtesy of forum member @leileilol. She might be able to tell you more.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 5 of 10, by BEEN_Nath_58

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:38:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:09:

Can you remember me of a game using this? I swear I tried one, but now I forgot as it was long time ago.

Eradicator maybe? That game did use some more advanced features of the AWE cards, but I'm not entirely sure about the 3DSE thing.

Here's a gameplay video of Eradicator on an AWE64, courtesy of forum member @leileilol. She might be able to tell you more.

Most of the things seems to be for DOS. Wasn't anything made Windows specific? I remember QSound but it wasn't theirs.

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 6 of 10, by Gmlb256

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:09:
Oetker wrote on 2022-05-05, 16:12:

Well the SB16 introduced Creative's proprietary way of handling 16-bit sound, not many cards are compatible with that (its main competitor was the Windows Sound System). It also has the CSP What does the optional CSP chip on creative cards do?.
For the AWE cards it's obvious, the EMU8000 synth, which can be driven directly instead of using general midi.

Did their method of handling 16-bit sound change something, like games made on that technology would need something proprietary to Creative or they won't work?

For the CSP there is only one DOS game that uses it which is TFX.

On Windows it is useful for reducing the CPU usage on slower computers while playing audio.

And IIRC EMU8K was for wavetable synthesis right?

Yes and it is capable more than just MIDI stuff with clever programming.

There are module players that supports the EMU8K and the best one I have found is AMP (AWE Module Player) by Lada Kopecky both for DOS and Windows (called AMPW).

Check also AWEamp, a WinAmp plugin by Yilard that allows playback through the EMU8K. Mainly to enhance the sound quality and very similar to some plugins that uses audio hardware acceleration (A3D and EAX) for the same purpose.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 19:20:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:38:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:09:

Can you remember me of a game using this? I swear I tried one, but now I forgot as it was long time ago.

Eradicator maybe? That game did use some more advanced features of the AWE cards, but I'm not entirely sure about the 3DSE thing.

Here's a gameplay video of Eradicator on an AWE64, courtesy of forum member @leileilol. She might be able to tell you more.

Most of the things seems to be for DOS. Wasn't anything made Windows specific? I remember QSound but it wasn't theirs.

There is a list for both DOS and Windows games that are capable of loading custom SoundFonts with AWE cards on a post made by Cloudschatze on the following thread: Re: AWEstruck...

Cros is also capable of this and it is used for ambient sound effects.

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Reply 7 of 10, by Oetker

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BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:09:
Oetker wrote on 2022-05-05, 16:12:

Well the SB16 introduced Creative's proprietary way of handling 16-bit sound, not many cards are compatible with that (its main competitor was the Windows Sound System). It also has the CSP What does the optional CSP chip on creative cards do?.
For the AWE cards it's obvious, the EMU8000 synth, which can be driven directly instead of using general midi.

Did their method of handling 16-bit sound change something, like games made on that technology would need something proprietary to Creative or they won't work?

It's just one way of playing back 16-bit sound that only works with Creative cards (and very few clones (ALS100, CMI8330)). Some games let you choose between e.g. SoundBlaster 16, Windows Sound System, or Pro Audio Spectrum 16 for 16-bit sound.

Reply 8 of 10, by BEEN_Nath_58

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Oetker wrote on 2022-05-06, 07:50:
BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2022-05-05, 17:09:
Oetker wrote on 2022-05-05, 16:12:

Well the SB16 introduced Creative's proprietary way of handling 16-bit sound, not many cards are compatible with that (its main competitor was the Windows Sound System). It also has the CSP What does the optional CSP chip on creative cards do?.
For the AWE cards it's obvious, the EMU8000 synth, which can be driven directly instead of using general midi.

Did their method of handling 16-bit sound change something, like games made on that technology would need something proprietary to Creative or they won't work?

It's just one way of playing back 16-bit sound that only works with Creative cards (and very few clones (ALS100, CMI8330)). Some games let you choose between e.g. SoundBlaster 16, Windows Sound System, or Pro Audio Spectrum 16 for 16-bit sound.

Oh yes, I remember I had to choose it for NFS1 in DOS, which didn't have MIDI sound so that was one game. This proprietary way was only for DOS probably, because the same game's Windows port had grayed out all the sound card options (SB16, SBAWE32, Pro Audio Spectrum, WSS, etc).

previously known as Discrete_BOB_058

Reply 9 of 10, by Jo22

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Hi there! There also was the Terratec EWS64XL with a custom DSP.
Some version of MOD4WIN supported it, to off-load MOD playback to the card.

Then there were numerous SB compatibles with OPL4.
The MediaTrix AudioTrix Pro card had one, too, along with Sample RAM connected to its OPL4.
That configuration was supported by MOD4WIN also.

The Turtle Beach soundcard series (Maui etc.) was interesting, too.
They had a real computer on-board. Had an Motorola 68000 CPU, I believe.
During DOS boot, the drivers uploaded software to that computer.
That way, a more faithful emulation of MT-32 etc. was possible, for example.

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Reply 10 of 10, by mkarcher

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-05, 16:42:

AWE64 cards also have something called "Creative 3D Stereo Enhancement Effect".

AWE64 Manual wrote:

The Creative 3D Stereo Enhancement (3DSE) effect allows you to eliminate speaker crosstalk which occurs when two speakers are placed close together. With this effect enabled, mono and stereo sounds produced by your speakers will have increased depth and breadth.

I always turn this off, so I have no idea how it works in games.

That's not an AWE64 exclusive feature, though. CT3DSE is just some analog filtering magic Creative Labs added as optional feature to their later cards. I wouldn't be surprised to find CT3DSE even on some Vibra16 series cards, but it is definitely on the CT3600, a very low end SB32 variant (the removed "AWE" from the name to point out the lowendness of the card).

As you just need to turn the magic "made it sound more spacy" filter on once to have it apply to all sound produced by the card, the feature will affect all games, whether they use digitized sound, OPL synthesis or wavetable synthesis. As usual for this kind of "3D spatialization", it makes especially mono sounds more appealing. On the other hand, it makes the position of different instruments in classic orchestra recordings, or polyphonic MIDI synthesis with careful stereo panning noticably less clear. It's thus a matter of taste whether you like CT3DSE on mono games (SB 2.0, Adlib), you can even use it for games with a bit of stereo support, but as soon as you want the best defined stereo positioning, as in hearing the direction to the source of shots that are hurting you, you better turn it off.