Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:41:

Another thing in favour of Linux is the command line. It is far more powerful than anything shipped with a DOS or Windows OS. It might not seem like a big deal when you're used to using a GUI, but there's so many things that it opens up. I have terabytes of data that I'm hoarding, but I can write simple scripts to organize files how I like. For example, I have thousands of pdfs from various scientific journals on my computer. I wrote a script to rename them according to their title and organize them by publication. I also have a little Linux based server on my home network that I use as a NAS device. It's managed purely using the command line.

If it weren't for games and few other programs that require Windows, I'd use Linux exclusively outside of retrogaming.

In fact command line in windows is very powerful, you can do some very complex batch files and windows have a incredible quantity of command line and software with command line parameters to use. But anyways, native in windows since XP (or 2000?) you have powershell that is incredible powerful too

feels windows 7 is the lowest you can go with good compatibility with new software tbh, and windows 7 x86 is pretty good with running with XP era drivers, like my AC97 onboard audio never got Vista drivers but works fine with XP drivers on 7 x86, also kind of worked with XP video drivers (with aero off), but it's a little trickier.
5 years ago web browser compatibility was already an issue on XP.

theelf wrote on 2022-11-24, 16:17:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:41:

Another thing in favour of Linux is the command line. It is far more powerful than anything shipped with a DOS or Windows OS. It might not seem like a big deal when you're used to using a GUI, but there's so many things that it opens up. I have terabytes of data that I'm hoarding, but I can write simple scripts to organize files how I like. For example, I have thousands of pdfs from various scientific journals on my computer. I wrote a script to rename them according to their title and organize them by publication. I also have a little Linux based server on my home network that I use as a NAS device. It's managed purely using the command line.

If it weren't for games and few other programs that require Windows, I'd use Linux exclusively outside of retrogaming.

In fact command line in windows is very powerful, you can do some very complex batch files and windows have a incredible quantity of command line and software with command line parameters to use. But anyways, native in windows since XP (or 2000?) you have powershell that is incredible powerful too

The NT cmd shell has been in existence since NT 3.0.

But please continue....

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:04:

theelf wrote on 2022-11-24, 16:17:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:41:

Another thing in favour of Linux is the command line. It is far more powerful than anything shipped with a DOS or Windows OS. It might not seem like a big deal when you're used to using a GUI, but there's so many things that it opens up. I have terabytes of data that I'm hoarding, but I can write simple scripts to organize files how I like. For example, I have thousands of pdfs from various scientific journals on my computer. I wrote a script to rename them according to their title and organize them by publication. I also have a little Linux based server on my home network that I use as a NAS device. It's managed purely using the command line.

If it weren't for games and few other programs that require Windows, I'd use Linux exclusively outside of retrogaming.

In fact command line in windows is very powerful, you can do some very complex batch files and windows have a incredible quantity of command line and software with command line parameters to use. But anyways, native in windows since XP (or 2000?) you have powershell that is incredible powerful too

The NT cmd shell has been in existence since NT 3.0.

But please continue....

Powershell is not same as NT cmd

theelf wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:25:

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:04:

theelf wrote on 2022-11-24, 16:17:

In fact command line in windows is very powerful, you can do some very complex batch files and windows have a incredible quantity of command line and software with command line parameters to use. But anyways, native in windows since XP (or 2000?) you have powershell that is incredible powerful too

The NT cmd shell has been in existence since NT 3.0.

But please continue....

Powershell is not same as NT cmd

I know.

But keep going.....

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:50:

But keep going.....

Are you sure about that?

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:56:

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:50:

But keep going.....

Are you sure about that?

About using XP as a main OS yes. You see still have a soft spot for it e ven though I use Linux as my main desktop OS

About the other total rubbish yo've posted in this thread no.

BTW if you are going to quote me please quote the WHOLE post and not a portion of it.
It stays in context then

Over to you....

SPBHM wrote on 2022-11-24, 16:20:

5 years ago web browser compatibility was already an issue on XP.

5 years ago chrome 49 was recent and firefox still support XP

but yes, 5 years ago looks like XP will not have alternatives

And then came newmoon, and chromium 86 port and now mypal68...

Looks that maybe XP users will have some more time

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 18:11:

Over to you....

Sorry, no, I am out. It was a pleasure.

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 22:06:

So in one way you are tolerant to GUI change, in other ways you are not ;) […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

So in one way you are tolerant to GUI change, in other ways you are not 😉

For what it is worth, I attached a screenshot of my Linux GUI overhaul. Quite satisfied with how far I could take it. It is Dutch language.
Just that linux .otb bitmap font rendering has some small bugs. Otb fonts are the only way to get it like this, AFAIK.

Note that I am not recommending anything. Just posting in this thread because I can relate to it.
The OS situation is, to me, a problem without a solution on the horizon. I will probably keep mixing all possible approaches, to mitigate things.
Some context; IT-Vision on Windows 10 / 11 / Linux

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-23, 19:57:

Linux is fine as an everyday OS. I use Linux Mint Debian 5 on all of my systems, both 64bit and 32 bit, including my P4 desktop. And I don't have to be a programmer to use it

I am glad the Linux I use sometimes is responsive, quite reliable and mostly self-configuring for common use.
But Wine is of course no real Windows, and things like drag and drop don't work last time I checked, which can be really annoying when working with many files.
Native engineering/CAD software for Linux is pretty much non-existent.
If I would put Linux on a system in the office, and a trainee would be assigned to that seat, and would start (libre) office, then they will surely nag that it is too different from what they used in school and at home. I remember they already disapprove when MS Office is a few versions behind current.

I like this windows colors,very motif

You need to customize icons to something lile this,

theelf wrote on 2022-11-24, 16:17:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:41:

Another thing in favour of Linux is the command line. It is far more powerful than anything shipped with a DOS or Windows OS. It might not seem like a big deal when you're used to using a GUI, but there's so many things that it opens up. I have terabytes of data that I'm hoarding, but I can write simple scripts to organize files how I like. For example, I have thousands of pdfs from various scientific journals on my computer. I wrote a script to rename them according to their title and organize them by publication. I also have a little Linux based server on my home network that I use as a NAS device. It's managed purely using the command line.

If it weren't for games and few other programs that require Windows, I'd use Linux exclusively outside of retrogaming.

In fact command line in windows is very powerful, you can do some very complex batch files and windows have a incredible quantity of command line and software with command line parameters to use. But anyways, native in windows since XP (or 2000?) you have powershell that is incredible powerful too

I haven't done much in the Windows command line, but I don't think it comes close to the tools that are included by default in the various Linux distros. Commands like cut, rev, sed, awk, etc., are all very powerful. I use find and grep extensively. For example, suppose that you have a hard drive full of old games and you want to find a game that you can't remember. You could use find to find all of the text files and grep to search for a keyword. A major benefit is that you can chain all of these commands together. I know people have developed stuff like cygwin to make these available in Windows.

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 20:25:

I haven't done much in the Windows command line, but I don't think it comes close to the tools that are included by default in the various Linux distros. Commands like cut, rev, sed, awk, etc., are all very powerful. I use find and grep extensively. For example, suppose that you have a hard drive full of old games and you want to find a game that you can't remember. You could use find to find all of the text files and grep to search for a keyword. A major benefit is that you can chain all of these commands together. I know people have developed stuff like cygwin to make these available in Windows.

That's correct. NT commandline is not weak, but not up to par with Linux.

PowerShell is indeed very powerful in terms of accessing internal OS objects (and has some advantages - is that it actually treats some things as objects and not just string) - but its syntax is beyond horrible.

dr_st wrote on 2022-11-24, 20:41:

PowerShell is indeed very powerful in terms of accessing internal OS objects (and has some advantages - is that it actually treats some things as objects and not just string) - but its syntax is beyond horrible.

It's so verbose, my brain actively fights me when I try using it.

Last time I had to use it, I wrote a little script than can parallel-extract multiple files in a directory with 7-Zip:

1Get-ChildItem *.7z | foreach-Object -parallel {
2	& "C:\Program Files\7-Zip\7z.exe" -aoa x $_.FullName -o*
3} -ThrottleLimit 10

It just looks WRONG and I hate it, but at least it worked. 😀

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 20:25:

theelf wrote on 2022-11-24, 16:17:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2022-11-24, 05:41:

Another thing in favour of Linux is the command line. It is far more powerful than anything shipped with a DOS or Windows OS. It might not seem like a big deal when you're used to using a GUI, but there's so many things that it opens up. I have terabytes of data that I'm hoarding, but I can write simple scripts to organize files how I like. For example, I have thousands of pdfs from various scientific journals on my computer. I wrote a script to rename them according to their title and organize them by publication. I also have a little Linux based server on my home network that I use as a NAS device. It's managed purely using the command line.

If it weren't for games and few other programs that require Windows, I'd use Linux exclusively outside of retrogaming.

In fact command line in windows is very powerful, you can do some very complex batch files and windows have a incredible quantity of command line and software with command line parameters to use. But anyways, native in windows since XP (or 2000?) you have powershell that is incredible powerful too

I haven't done much in the Windows command line, but I don't think it comes close to the tools that are included by default in the various Linux distros. Commands like cut, rev, sed, awk, etc., are all very powerful. I use find and grep extensively. For example, suppose that you have a hard drive full of old games and you want to find a game that you can't remember. You could use find to find all of the text files and grep to search for a keyword. A major benefit is that you can chain all of these commands together. I know people have developed stuff like cygwin to make these available in Windows.

Hi, but all this tools, you can have in windows too. I know you can have "pre-installed" in a unix distro, but i dont see the difference to add manually what do you need to your OS, and dont say cygwin, just win32 ports or native tools

Even if you dont want to add nothing to DOS or Windows, you can do what do you say, with something like this

1findstr /s /m "mygame" *.txt
2
3or  if you want to keep the search
4
5findstr /s /m "mygame" *.txt > out

and don't misunderstand me, I love unix command line, and i know bash and unix tools are very powerful, and thats why many of this are ported to windows and i love to have in my system

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-23, 22:06:

For what it is worth, I attached a screenshot of my Linux GUI overhaul.

I moddify a little... jeje

theelf wrote on 2022-11-21, 23:49:

Basilisk is sooo out of date, i use 360browser or mypal68, and newmoon just for drm […]
Show full quote

mihai wrote on 2022-11-21, 23:24:

I did use XP to go online in the past year; I used roytam's build of Basilisk - http://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com/

If you are behind a NAT / properly configured firewall, there should be no issues for light browsing on reputable sites. However, I would never use XP as main OS. Windows 7 32 bit does anything XP does, with the added bonus of still being officially supported.

Basilisk is sooo out of date, i use 360browser or mypal68, and newmoon just for drm

Win7 do this? I dont think so....

Image1.gif

Wow, I really want to use that. I already tend to reach for Inexperience Patcher on my XP installs, and NT 4 would be even better. I think that UI would even make me okay with using Windows 11. Not, like, as a daily driver, but on someone else's computer I'm borrowing and will give them back later.

Anyway, re: the topic of the thread, I used to on and off as someone that's for most of my life had PCs on a ~10-15 year lag after the mid-2000s. Right up to 2017 on the desktop (dual booted with Peppermint Linux) on a Core 2 Duo desktop, and until 2020 on laptops (specifically, my Dell Inspiron 2200). Said C2D desktop is no longer with us and the Inspiron is currently running Haiku, which I found even faster than XP -- and much faster than Puppy was. Back around 2015 I used Whistler 2419 in a VM as my daily driver, even. Nowadays, though, I tend to use Windows Vista SP2 (with Server 2008 patches) or Windows 8.1 on my desktops when I even use Windows at all.

Now, if you count ReactOS, the story hasn't yet changed, but once it reaches the Beta 0.6.0 mark, it probably will. Only as a dual boot, I still don't really have a reason to switch away from Fedora as my daily driver (or Haiku on old hardware) besides to try out openSUSE or Mageia, or to go back to Slackware, but once Vista SP2 is well and truly dead even of community support and ROS has NT 6.0 compatibility, then I'll probably consider switching.

For all the Debbie Dumpling on Vogons.

2004 Xandros Linux 3 with KDE 3

Transferred via floppy disk from the AMD400K6-2 400 system to this P4.

Took less than 10mins to configure,

theelf wrote on 2022-11-22, 19:21:

If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use i […]
Show full quote

dr_st wrote on 2022-11-22, 14:10:

The only reason to use XP as your main OS is if you use a Pentium 4 is your main PC.

If you use a SSD and at least 256mb ram, XP will feel more or less, same in a high end P3 or a i7, then same reason to use in a P3 or a i7

gerwin wrote on 2022-11-22, 17:50:

I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750. - Windows XP x86 - Windows 7 x64 - Li […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2022-11-21, 13:18:

Linux is ok but i really love NT, For me xp feels like the last classic NT, besides 3.x

im thinking in linux in a Pi 3b or 4 and xwin32...

thats why i ask if someone tested this opinion before try myself

I have a intel Z68/ Ivy Bridge system with a multiboot. Graphics card is a Radeon HD 7750.
- Windows XP x86
- Windows 7 x64
- Linux, Solus distribution with MATE 'desktop environment'.

All three have these GUI configurations:
- Windows classic GUI, Similar to Windows 2000 rainy day.
- Default to font MS Sans Serif without cleartype or other anti-aliasing.
- Seldom give me a big white background to look at, but instead grey rgb 200,200,200 background color everywhere.

All three are on their own SSD drive. The Windows installations can't see each-other's C: partitions, the rest is shared. Linux with Grub handles the multiboot interface at startup.

Annoyances remain of course: I hate the Windows 7 explorer file listing auto-sort. It introduced Ribbon "moded" interfaces which take two clicks to do what was done with one. I have also seen it timing out on an update notification and rebooting without my permission. Linux also has some retarded little quirks when doing simple things, like opening a new explorer window exactly on top of the previous one, and having difficulty discerning .txt documents and start-able script files.

Especially the Linux theming took some effort, messing with statements in theme xml files IIRC. Also had to redo many small bitmaps with GUI elements, to make them as pixel perfect as possible. Even generated my own bitmapped font files. As a bonus Linux retains drop-shadows besides/under every window. In hindsight MATE was a good choice to start with, as it is the most classic/conservative desktop environment.
Linux has the usual Wine Windows support and it is pretty good technically, but sometimes a system update breaks some of my Wine configurations, which is very annoying.

I am, mostly, not interested in comments about what is safe online, so I will just leave that subject open.

Hi, i almost dont use linux in my every day. For my work, i have a i5 laptop with XP 32bits and solaris+cde in second partition, i use for work stuff with interfacing cobol in bank server. In my home just XP no other OS, i have a quad xeon and for work stuff only a i7 running XP x64 connected to bank

If i will use Linux for main OS, i think i will feel confortable using fvwm2 with default CDE look. Last time i use linux, i remember was difficult to match the look of QT, gtk, motif, etc etc applications. Not easy, was a mess of UI. I dont know how much change that this last years

Why not just use CDE? https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:04:

The NT cmd shell has been in existence since NT 3.0.

But please continue....

If you are comparing the NT CMD Shell to something like bash then you are absolutely clueless.

appiah4 wrote on 2022-11-25, 09:02:

MarkP wrote on 2022-11-24, 17:04:

The NT cmd shell has been in existence since NT 3.0.

But please continue....

If you are comparing the NT CMD Shell to something like bash then you are absolutely clueless.

I am not so you are just making a baseless accusation and insulting a Vogons member. Please go read the Vogon rules for members conduct dude.