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DgVoodoo 1 Discussion Thread

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Reply 181 of 341, by ableeker

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We have two computers, one computer (with an ATI 9600 Pro 128 MB) runs dgVoodoo en Tomb Raider 1 just fine, but the other (with an Nvidia Geforce 2 MMX 32 MB) doesn't. If I start dgVoodoo+TR1 full screen, it starts TR1 (after showing the two movies) but then crashes with an error message like "NTVDM has crashed, and must be closed". If I start it windowed, it starts, but most of the textures are missing, almost everything looks like it's in wireframe mode.

I've tried a number of settings (including the defaults), running with and without VDMS 2.10, with and without VDD mode, but I haven't been able to make it work yet. This computer has an Nvidia videocard, I assumed these had fewer problems than ATI cards? Isn't 32 MB enough to run dgVoodoo? I think I had it working before. Does anybody have any ideas how to fix this?

Reply 182 of 341, by Zebius

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@ableeker
This card is enough, I had the same card before and dgvoodoo worked just fine. Do you have Windows XP on that computer? I remember that newer Nvidia drivers caused problems with this card so I used older versions.

Reply 183 of 341, by Miki Maus

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I'm using dgVoodoo 1.40+ on WindowsXP with Geforce2 Ti. And in whenever I set a resolution in dgVoodoo higher that native resolutions of glide games I get blue edges around sprites/textures, as seen in pictures (disregard jpg artefacts). This happens with both dos and windows glide games, and with earlier versions of dgVoodoo. Is this because of graphics card or some setting in dgVoodoo?

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Reply 184 of 341, by Dege

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I've tried a number of settings (including the defaults), running with and without VDMS 2.10, with and without VDD mode, but I haven't been able to make it work yet. This computer has an Nvidia videocard, I assumed these had fewer problems than ATI cards?

Yes, Zebius is right, I can only say the same. What version of drivers are you using? According to my experiences, the newer driver you use the worse for older cards.
What about the logging version? Does it log something usable? 🙄

Isn't 32 MB enough to run dgVoodoo?

It should enough for TR1, but, you may limit the texture memory to a lower value, like 4MB, and use native ck-ing instead of alpha based.

I'm using dgVoodoo 1.40+ on WindowsXP with Geforce2 Ti. And in whenever I set a resolution in dgVoodoo higher that native resolutions of glide games I get blue edges around sprites/textures, as seen in pictures (disregard jpg artefacts). This happens with both dos and windows glide games, and with earlier versions of dgVoodoo. Is this because of graphics card or some setting in dgVoodoo?

Well, It seems to be normal. When you apply a nondefault resolution, dgv has to rescale everything to fool the application to make it think it's using the required resolution. So, when the app wants to lock and access a buffer directly, dgv gives back a reference to a buffer filled with a colorkey, (which is often blue, but can vary), to be able to detect where the application modified pixels, and then blits this buffer into the real backbuffer with scaling and discarding the blue pixels. And, the point is following now: scaled-colorkeyed buffer blitting is available via the ddraw7 interface, but dgv can't affect the applied filtering for scaling, it completely depends on the driver. The other question is, how colorkeying is defined for bilinear filtering? (I guess there is no common accepted definition.)
It seems your driver (or card) uses bilinear filtering, and discard only pixels that exactly matches the colorkey, thus leaving a blue edge. nVidia may have realized sg because I got plain point sampled filtering on my GF5700ultra, while ATI seems to be the best in this respect, it still uses bilinear filt., but no ugly edges, they may uses a method that discard any pixel that arises as a result of bilinear interpolation where any of the 4 adjacent pixels matches the colorkey.
Sorry, for the long technical blabla, summarized: when you use nondefault resolution, dgv must do ck-scaled blittings, but it cannot affect the filtering, and even ck-scaling interpreting is done differently depending on your card/driver since there is no commonly accepted method for this (i guess).

I've a GF5700ultra and ATI X600, and I don't get blue edges as I described. So, unfortunately you can't do much about it. 😐

Reply 185 of 341, by Miki Maus

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I did a bit more of testing with the few older dgVoodoo versions and found that blue edges are gone with dgVoodoo 1.40 Beta R2 and with "Enable texture tiles" checked. In newer version this options has changed to "Disable texture tiles" and that has no effect on blue edges. Is there a way to force texture tiles on dgVoodoo 1.40+?

Reply 186 of 341, by Dege

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Yeah, texture tiling applies point sampled filtering, and it's basically used for replacing the simple buffer blitting in cases when it wouldn't be enough, like locking a buffer with active pipeline. 1.40 betas always preferred texture tiling to simple buffblitting in any cases (it seemed better, even the format conversion is done by the hw due to the textures), but I left an option to enable forcing fallback.

Somewhat surprising, but later I experienced slightly lower performance with textiling, so I decided to alter this mechanism, so the final 1.40 always selects automatically between these methods according to the needs and circumstances (so it prefers simple buffblt to textiling when possible), that's why the "enable texture tiles" was changed to "disable texture tiles". You cannot force using texture tiles. 🙁
But, I may build it in the next version.

Reply 187 of 341, by ableeker

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Zebius, Dege, thanks for the tip. This computer is running XP SP2, and the very latest Nvidia drivers, Detonator version 81.98. That's me, I always update everything, but in the case of video card drivers I can see why that might be a problem for older hardware. I guess the Nvidia engineers probably aren't testing their latest drivers thorougly anymore with a Geforce 2 MX. And if they did, they're probably not that interested anyhow in fixing the bugs they might find. Anyway, I'll try some older driver, I'll see if I can find the best ones used in the time of the Geforce 2 MX.

And thanks for the tips about the settings to use in dgVoodoo, Dege!

Reply 188 of 341, by ableeker

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Just wanted to let you know that it worked! I've installed version 45.33 of the Nvidia video driver, the earliest version to support DirectX 9, and Tomb Raider 1 is now running smoothly, and without any problems.

And now for something completely different. Dege, did you know that TR1 doesn't run on Vista using dgVoodoo? dgVoodoo may work, as it seems to start normally, but something somewhere goes wrong, because I see an error message: NTVDM encountered a hard error. I can then click Ignore a couple of times, but then I get an error message stating NTVDM.exe has crashed, and must be closed. I know Vista is very different from XP, so I didn't really expect dgVoodoo to run, but it would have been nice. I'll try the debug version to see what happens.

Reply 189 of 341, by DosFreak

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Vista is different from XP but it isn't that drastic of a change. Especially as far as DOS programs are concerned.

There are usually a few changes to the NT kernel and NTVDM in each new MS OS but I really haven't used Vista enough to tell you how compatible it is compared to 2K/XP's NTVDM (and I don't care to either since DosBox is far more compatible).

You probably don't care tho and just want your game to work in Vista. 😉

Hopefully the problem is fixable but I doubt Dege will bother debugging his program in a beta operating system that is constantly in a state of change.

Does TR1 work in software mode in NTVDM in Vista?

DOSBox Compilation Guides
DosBox Feature Request Thread
PC Game Compatibility List
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Running DRM games offline

Reply 190 of 341, by ableeker

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OK, DosFreak, you're right, I should have said "Some areas of Vista are very different from XP", and I have no idea if that's true for DOS. But it still would have been nice if I could run TR1 on Vista!

Anyway, just starting either the normal version of Tomb.exe, or the 3dfx enhanced version will crash NTVDM immediately.

Reply 191 of 341, by Dege

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Anyway, just starting either the normal version of Tomb.exe, or the 3dfx enhanced version will crash NTVDM immediately.

Uhh, I hope it's really a beta state, and MS will improve it... 😖
But on the other hand ntvdm is being condemned to death because of 64 bit environments, so may not...

There could be other problems on Vista with dgv 1.4, since it uses dx7, and afaik, only d3d9 and dx10 is supported natively in the new LDDM (Longhorn Display Driver Model) (WGF 1.0 sits on top of d3d9 as a kind of new API, if not a superset of d3d9, used by the windowing system to draw the desktop, and dx10 is the WGF 2.0), all other previous dx interfaces (5,6,7 and eight) is wrapped to d3d9. I'm not sure if MS is straining after making as perfect emulation as can be done, so i'm getting ready to say bye-bye to most of the applications/games using earlier dx interfaces than 9 on Vista. 😒 But maybe I'm too pessimistic. 😀

Hopefully the problem is fixable but I doubt Dege will bother debugging his program in a beta operating system that is constantly in a state of change.

Yes, I'm waiting for the final version.

Reply 192 of 341, by themortal

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Hi,
i'm trying to make carmageddon 1 working on windows xp sp2 with dgvoodoo, i always get a blackscreen when it comes to the 3d part.

got latest DX9, latest drivers, and gforce fx5200,
dgVoodoo 1.40

Is there some specific settings to use (more VDD or more server ?something else ?) or is it just my computer and it should work by default ?

thank you for any help

Reply 193 of 341, by Dege

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Hi,

blackscreen when it comes to the 3d part.

Hmm, do you hear any sound indicating that the gameplay is going on, or it's just a total black scr deadlock? (in windowed mode you can see in the task manager if ntvdm.exe uses 100% cpu, if not, then it's certainly bad... 🙁 , but keep the dgv-window active!!)

What about other glide games (dos or windows), they all don't work at all, too?
Or, try the logging version. I know it turned out to be useless in most cases, but may worth a go.

got latest DX9, latest drivers, and gforce fx5200

It can be a problem too, as was mentioned in earlier posts. I have an fx5700, but I never upgrade to the latest drivers, they are developed for the newest gf series, 6xxx, 7xxx, even if the driver docs advertises full backward compatibility... 😀

Is there some specific settings to use (more VDD or more server ?something else ?) or is it just my computer and it should work by default ?

No, vdd mode should fit in with nvidia drivers, but of course you can try both vdd and server mode to see the difference, if any.

If nothing helps, plz try dgv 1.31, if that works then something must have gone wrong in 1.40.

Reply 194 of 341, by Converter

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Hi Dege,

We still keep talking and testing 1.40+ at TR Forums.

I sent you a couple of PMs, from this and my new account here, a few weeks ago with no reply from you. I wrote you about Bokkie asking me to contact you since he's very busy lately. Please check your PMs for details.

He wanted to include the new 1.40+ in the new TRAI but since there are some issues with it we were wondering if you could drop by and kinda help us with solving them. We would really appreciate it.

In the PMs I sent you I included the direct link to dgVoodoo 1.40 thread at TR Forums. You'll get any help you need in testing from us over there.

Thanks.

Reply 195 of 341, by themortal

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i tried dgvoodoo 1.31, does not work either(tried both glide dll 2.11 & 2.43)

i set the sound to nothing in the setup (wanted to check if it worked before using vdms sound)

about my black screen, ntdvm uses 100% of cpu time although (99) so something is working somewhere.

well i'll try at home (ok i'm guilty, i tried dgVoodoo on my work computer..),
there i got a radeon 9600xt.

i wanted to know if someone succeeded in launching carma 1 with dgVoodoo at least, to know if what i'm trying is useless or not

Thank you Dege:)

Reply 196 of 341, by themortal

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ok carma 1 works at home with dgVoodoo 1.40,
so it's my work computer which is not ok.

Btw there is still a problem which appear in Dos and in glide (it's a bit less visible) with dgVoodoo, a camera problem,

when i'm climbing a slope, the camera goes up & down very quickly, giving the feeling that there is a slow framerate (but the framerate is ok)

what's strange is, i do not have this glitch at work with glidos.
BUT, i heard that glidos works well for the 1st levels, but had a 3d bugs afterwards (+ the problem that is it not free and may be expensive to play with 10 persons)

..i think i'll give up..

Reply 197 of 341, by Dege

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I sent you a couple of PMs, from this and my new account here, a few weeks ago with no reply from you. I wrote you about Bokkie asking me to contact you since he's very busy lately. Please check your PMs for details.

Uh, indeed, sorry. I check my private messages very rarely... 😦

@themortal:

when i'm climbing a slope, the camera goes up & down very quickly, giving the feeling that there is a slow framerate (but the framerate is ok)

It sounds strange, do you mean the camera is twitching between two positions as if it couldn't find the best place? 😀
I guess you use an external viewpoint. I'll check it later.
(Others reported less smooth gameplay with 1.40 than 1.31, but it's mainly because of the magic timer boost period value, it was 15ms in 1.31. However it caused other games to be too fast, therefore I decreased the boosting tp to 80ms in the default setup of 1.40+. But you can still set it back, or play with it to find the best value for yourself. The real pain is timer boosting is needed at all.)

Your problem may have nothing to do with the followings, but generally, as for the dos timer problem: I don't want to blame ntvdm, but I think it's timer emulation is, well... not perfect after all, its src and my experiments confirmed this. I have never had problems with w98's emu though, the way it's done in is more rational than in ntvdm...

Reply 198 of 341, by Darth Slaughter

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Well...

I'm playing tomb raider 1 with DgVoodoo 1.40+, and it's running ok, except for one thing:

I go on saving, but after some time, after the 3rd or 4th save, the game crashes when the inventory menu sppins back to the game. crashes back to windows desktop.

The ambient sound from the CD still plays.

I enter the game again, and the savegame that crashed is corrupt, with some strange name, and if I try to load it, i loads a black screen only with the health bar.

it's playable, but it's boring having to play through some difficult part again after already passed it before.

I know some other people had the same problem. I'd like to know how to solve it, if it's a DgVoodoo problem, or a VDMSound problem.

in tomb raider forums, the sugested closing all tasks active on windows background, and defragging the Hard drive. Is this really the cause?

any help welcome. thanks...

PS: don't know if it belongs here in this thread... but I'm new in posting in vogons... although I lurk around for some hints for old games.

Darth Slaughter - sith lord