VOGONS


I wish I had discovered Windows ME sooner!

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Reply 20 of 68, by matcarfer

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-14, 03:23:

Thank you!

Reply 21 of 68, by leileilol

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That's only IE6+WMP+security fixes. The way it was implied like it's a big overhaul to nullify ME's use case is misleading.

Any more 'updates' beyond that would just be those hackeneyed frankensteined ME dlls.

apsosig.png

Reply 22 of 68, by kolderman

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leileilol wrote on 2020-05-14, 04:02:

That's only IE6+WMP+security fixes. The way it was implied like it's a big overhaul to nullify ME's use case is misleading.

I think it's ALL patches to 98 rolled into one. The security update name is misleading. I didnt say it turned it into ME. And ME has no use case.

Reply 24 of 68, by texterted

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System restore works pretty well, providing you install the date bug patch.

Cheers

Ted

98se/W2K :- Asus A8v Dlx. A-64 3500+, 512 mb ddr, Radeon 9800 Pro, SB Live.
XP Pro:- Asus P5 Q SE Plus, C2D E8400, 4 Gig DDR2, Radeon HD4870, SB Audigy 2ZS.

Reply 25 of 68, by C0deHunter

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Do I really need this 2004 update pack if I am not going online? What exactly does this CD do?

Thanks!

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 26 of 68, by kolderman

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C0deHunter wrote on 2020-05-14, 08:35:

Do I really need this 2004 update pack if I am not going online? What exactly does this CD do?

Thanks!

It bundles up every official update to Win98 (apart from optional updates) and is considered around here to be the best update for Win98, in comparison to the frankenstein patches like the "Unofficial Windows 98 Second Edition Service Pack".

Do you need it? Do you need it not? I do it as standard for every Win98 build, but it's up to you really.

Reply 27 of 68, by chinny22

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C0deHunter wrote on 2020-05-14, 08:35:

Do I really need this 2004 update pack if I am not going online? What exactly does this CD do?

Thanks!

Basically its just a offline version of if you went to update Windows 98 over the internet.
If you like having windows fully up to date then it's convenient, but for whats a offline games rig there isn't a need for this.
The only NEEDED update is Windows installer 2.0 anything else depends on your setup/preferences

Reply 28 of 68, by Tetrium

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C0deHunter wrote on 2020-05-12, 06:42:
Its like a stripped down version of Windows 2000 Pro (GUI), fused with Windows 98SE features! I remember back in the day I heard […]
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Its like a stripped down version of Windows 2000 Pro (GUI), fused with Windows 98SE features! I remember back in the day I heard about it's *instability*, but to be honest it has been playing on my real retro system (my sig) for a month, and I LOVE it!

p.s. If I could only get the START menu *label (side-ways) to display the "Windows Millennium
Edition text"
My Windows ME Start menu: It does not say Windows ME Millenuim Edition!

I've used ME extensively for years. I've installed (and often used) it on dozens of systems and learned some basics about how to tweak it. At some point I even wrote a little guide about how to install and tweak ME. I'll update this reply afterwards once I dig up the link, perhaps it will help you a bit 😜

I ended up using ME sorta by accident actually. I was using 98FE but really didn't like it. It often even crashed by just clicking something in the start menu or on the desktop and was generally speaking just very unstable. So I wanted a real windows and was looking around locally for 98SE since I heard so much great stuff about it. But I couldn't find it as people were not selling it, but I did manage to find some OEM version of ME, NIB. So I got that instead, not knowing what it really was but for €15 I didn't want to wait. And this lucky find basically set me up on using ME on all kinds of systems, partially because at that time I also did not have Win2k and XP (along with requiring an internet connection, which I didn't have at the time) so I had to make due with what I had available and make the best of it.

I did read and hear a lot of bad press about ME, but this was not my experience. Virtually none of the ME systems I build came even close to the amount of instability my 98FE (and later my Win95) rigs had. Of course it was not an NT based windows, but it was pretty good once you tweaked it a little bit. The couple newer DOS games I played back then also usually worked but I was by that time more into windows games anyway.

At some point I had an entire workflow of installing using an automated batch file, using a ZIP disk by USB (which 98SE does not support out of the box) to dump a load of files onto there, unzip the files (which 98SE also cannot do out of the box) and start tweaking and installing certain stuff along with disabling some of the stuff like the restore function and something else I always disabled but forgot the name of.

In a nutshell, ME fits in nicely between systems that are too slow to use even an nlited version of XP well and hardware being basically too slow for ME, but still good for earlier 9x versions. Iirc I would install ME on systems starting from about 300MHz CPUs with 128MB of RAM or so. It will work with systems that are a bit more cramped, but that would be somewhat similar to installing XP SP3 on a Deschutes with 256MB RAM. Sure it will probably work, but it may not be as enjoyable as it could be 😜
Couple gig HDD should also be enough but it's been a while since I last installed a retro OS on any rig so I don't remember the exact amounts. But it was perhaps like 1GB HDD space for ME and the rest for whatever I intended that rig be used for.
It comes with some advantages that make ME more enjoyable to use but also comes with some disadvantages.
I did try 98SE (and also 95 and several beta OS's like 98 Beta 3 and Neptune) but I found it a bit finicky. Also I found it a bit cumbersome to have to get the generic mass storage drivers onto that harddrive just so I could put the rest of the drivers onto that system, but obviously this was partially because of the way I was used to put them there using newer OSs, so part of this was what I was used to.
ME starts up and shuts down super fast compared to other OSs of that era and for playing Windows games, there isn't really an advantage of earlier 9x Window's compared to using ME. I also think that ME looks a bit nicer, using the same GUI that 2k uses.
It does seem to be a sensitive OS to install, but what really helps is taking some precautions like some certain BIOS tweaks and first install with a minimum amount of hardware and only adding or enabling the extras later.

It worked pretty well. And I liked it a lot. The flak about its instability is not something that I am familiar with, not even having used dozens of diverse ME rigs for at least 10 years or so.

edit: the link to the simple guide is here Tetrium's guide to Windows ME

Last edited by Tetrium on 2020-05-14, 16:41. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 29 of 68, by Tetrium

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texterted wrote on 2020-05-14, 04:25:

System restore works pretty well, providing you install the date bug patch.

This is my experience as well 😀

Back then, these systems were crude compared to what we got these days and (apart from perhaps becoming more stable) ME will become more responsive with these 2 disabled. I remember also having used some other tweaks which I sometimes did, depending on what I wanted to try 😜

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Reply 30 of 68, by Tetrium

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Grzyb wrote on 2020-05-13, 22:32:

If I need DOS, Windows 9x is better.
If I don't need DOS, Windows NT-series is better.
So, what's the point in running Windows ME?

That's what's so illogical, you know, about being a retro computer hobbyist. What's the point of living... if you don't have a (suitable retro) rig?

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 31 of 68, by 386SX

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I also always liked the Windows Millennium o.s. and the usb compatibility is awesome and works even with a SATA to USB adapter for external drives. I never found too many problems of stability compared to 98 FE, but the only downside is that was somehow slower and heavier than 98, clearly from benchmark numbers and general usage speed. A P2-400 would fly in Win98 and would be a bit stressed on Win Me, imho. I think also some apps would run in a more modern version more in ME than in 98 like newer browser versions, probably for components already installed into it I can't say.
It would have been nice to have more apps supporting 16bit o.s. later. Opera browser is somehow impressing than in their 2010 version still supported those o.s.. Too bad language specific single official updates are difficult to find nowdays.

Reply 32 of 68, by 386SX

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kolderman wrote on 2020-05-14, 01:03:
Grzyb wrote on 2020-05-14, 00:54:

I think we can all agree that - instead of ME - Microsoft should release something like "Windows 98 Third Edition": 98SE with all the bug-fixes, and built-in drivers for newer hardware.

They did - the 2004 update pack. Well apart from drivers perhaps.

I didn't know such disc existed at all. But was it released only to companies, oem or what? If it's multilanguage is great just what I was looking for my Me installation!

Reply 34 of 68, by boxpressed

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Does the Windows 98 2004 Update Pack include drivers for sound/video cards that weren't native to 98SE? That would get me to install it more than anything.

Reply 35 of 68, by kolderman

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boxpressed wrote on 2020-05-16, 17:04:

Does the Windows 98 2004 Update Pack include drivers for sound/video cards that weren't native to 98SE? That would get me to install it more than anything.

No I don't think so. You probably want to research video drivers anyway to get the optimal version for the card/games you want to play.

Reply 36 of 68, by C0deHunter

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-05-16, 16:39:

I never thought ME was "bad" per se, but at the time W2K just seemed like the obvious better choice

That is *exactly* my thought, back then.

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 37 of 68, by schmatzler

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386SX wrote on 2020-05-16, 15:48:

I didn't know such disc existed at all. But was it released only to companies, oem or what?

It was available for order directly from the Microsoft website. At least here in Germany, the update CD was also bundled with one of the biggest computer magazines at the time.

Reply 38 of 68, by Srandista

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texterted wrote on 2020-05-14, 04:25:

System restore works pretty well, providing you install the date bug patch.

Where I can find that patch?

Socket 775 - ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA, Pentium E6500K, 4GB RAM, Radeon 9500@9700, ESS Solo-1, Win 98/XP
Socket A - ASRock K7S41GX, AMD Athlon XP 3000+, 512MB RAM, GeForce4 Ti4200, SB Live, Win 98

Reply 39 of 68, by dr_st

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WinME seems like the obvious choice for anyone who wants a Win9x system but does not plan to use it for pure DOS mode. I really don't think it's any less stable than 98SE, and it has more features out-of -the-box. It should still be good for running DOS games from a Windows DOS prompt (if the games behave well in such a scenario). Many of the "ultra-high-end" Win98 SE rigs that people build here (without any intent to use them for DOS games) would probably be better with WinME, and the only reason people don't choose it more, is because it's hard to get over one's prejudices (or the idea doesn't even cross their mind due to the crowd opinion).

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