Dos7 Conventional memory \ VOGONS

Dos7 Conventional memory

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First post, by NyLan

Posted on 2022-02-17, 12:20

NyLan Offline

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Hey,

I'm trying to setup my IBM A20M Ms-Dos7 a nice configuration. I've setup a boot menu, with 3 entries.
1 for windows - does basically nothing and start Windows 98SE -
2 for Ms-Dos using Emm386 and Himem
3 for MS-Dos using Jemm ( or for testing )

I'm having lot of troubles to get the conventional memory I used to have with my other computers running Ms-Dos6.22. Memmaker does basically nothing and Qemm is even worst. ( and for some reason qemm needs to scan AND verify the memory on every single boot so it's taking 2-3 minutes ... each start )

Autoexec part when selecting Emm386

1SET TMP=c:\windows\TEMP
2SET TEMP=C:\windows\TEMP
3SET PROMPT=$p$g
4SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
5SET PATH=C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~2;C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~1;
6SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
7LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /E /D:OPTICAL
8LH keyb sf,,c:\windows\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
9LH C:\WINDOWS\cwcdata\cwcdos.exe
10LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R33 /3

Config.sys part when selecting Emm386

1NUMLOCK=OFF
2BREAK=ON
3DOS=HIGH,UMB
4DEVICE=C:\DOS\Himem.Sys /TESTMEM:OFF
5DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
6BUFFERS=10,0
7FILES=90
8LASTDRIVE=F
9FCBS=1,0
10STACKS=9,256
11DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

Mem /c result

1Modules using memory below 1Mb:
2
3  Name           Total       =   Conventional   +   Upper Memory
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      18,864   (18K)      9,568    (9K)      9,296    (9K)
6  HIMEM        1,104    (1K)      1,104    (1K)          0    (0K)
7  EMM386       4,304    (4K)      4,304    (4K)          0    (0K)
8  DBLBUFF      2,960    (3K)      2,960    (3K)          0    (0K)
9  MSCDEX      15,792   (15K)     15,792   (15K)          0    (0K)
10  KEYB         6,944    (7K)      6,944    (7K)          0    (0K)
11  CWCDOS       1,296    (1K)      1,296    (1K)          0    (0K)
12  CTMOUSE      3,104    (3K)      3,104    (3K)          0    (0K)
13  VIDECDD      5,008    (5K)          0    (0K)      5,008    (5K)
14  IFSHLP       2,848    (3K)          0    (0K)      2,848    (3K)
15  COMMAND      7,168    (7K)          0    (0K)      7,168    (7K)
16  FREE       611,104  (597K)    608,224  (594K)      2,880    (3K)
17
18Memory summary:
19
20  Type of Memory       Total    =     Used    +     Free
21  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
22  Conventional          655,360        47,136       608,224
23  Upper                  27,200        24,320         2,880
24  Reserved                    0             0             0
25  Extended (XMS)    535,756,800     1,064,960   534,691,840
26  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
27  Total memory      536,439,360     1,136,416   535,302,944
28
29  Total under 1Mb       682,560        71,456       611,104
30
31  Total Expanded (EMS)                 33,947,648  (33,152K)
32  Free Expanded (EMS)                  33,538,048  (32,752K)
33
34  Total Extended (XMS)                535,756,800 (523,200K)
35  Free Extended (XMS)                 534,691,840 (522,160K)
36
37  Largest executable program size         608,128     (594K)
38  Largest free upper memory block           2,880       (3K)
39  Available space in High Memory Area       1,600       (2K)
40  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

When using JEMM

Autoexec.bat

1SET TMP=c:\windows\TEMP
2SET TEMP=C:\windows\TEMP
3SET PROMPT=$p$g
4SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
5SET PATH=C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~2;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~1;
6SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
7LH keyb sf,,c:\windows\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
8LH C:\WINDOWS\cwcdata\cwcdos.exe
9LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R33 /3
10LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /E /D:OPTICAL

Config.sys

1NUMLOCK=OFF
2BREAK=ON
3DOS=HIGH,UMB
4DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\JEMM\JEMMEX.EXE I=B000-B7FF
5BUFFERS=10,0
6FILES=90
7LASTDRIVE=F
8FCBS=1,0
9STACKS=9,256
10DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\JEMM\JLOAD.EXE C:\DRIVERS\JEMM\XCDROM32.DLL /D:OPTICAL

Results

1Modules using memory below 1 MB:
2
3  Name           Total           Conventional       Upper Memory
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      18,832   (18K)      9,536    (9K)      9,296    (9K)
6  DBLBUFF      2,976    (3K)      2,976    (3K)          0    (0K)
7  KEYB         6,944    (7K)      6,944    (7K)          0    (0K)
8  CWCDOS       1,296    (1K)      1,296    (1K)          0    (0K)
9  MSCDEX      15,792   (15K)     15,792   (15K)          0    (0K)
10  JLOAD           64    (0K)          0    (0K)         64    (0K)
11  IFSHLP       2,864    (3K)          0    (0K)      2,864    (3K)
12  COMMAND      7,168    (7K)          0    (0K)      7,168    (7K)
13  CTMOUSE      3,104    (3K)          0    (0K)      3,104    (3K)
14  Free       626,240  (612K)    616,432  (602K)      9,808   (10K)
15
16Memory Summary:
17
18  Type of Memory       Total         Used          Free
19  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
20  Conventional          653,312        36,880       616,432
21  Upper                  32,304        22,496         9,808
22  Reserved                    0             0             0
23  Extended (XMS)    535,724,496     1,814,992   533,909,504
24  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
25  Total memory      536,410,112     1,874,368   534,535,744
26
27  Total under 1 MB      685,616        59,376       626,240
28
29  Total Expanded (EMS)                 33,947,648    (32M)
30  Free Expanded (EMS)                  33,538,048    (32M)
31  Largest executable program size         616,336   (602K)
32  Largest free upper memory block           9,072     (9K)
33  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

All advices welcome !

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 1 of 9, by konc

Posted on 2022-02-17, 12:39

konc Offline

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Do you really want the EMS/is it intentional? If not try changing ...EMM386.EXE RAM to EMM386.EXE NOEMS (and maybe add another config for EMS)

Reply 2 of 9, by Nemo1985

Posted on 2022-02-17, 14:28

Nemo1985 Offline

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Why so little upper memory?
If you want to keep using himem and emm386 you can free some more memory using the high command for the buffers, file, last drive etc:
Those are my settings:
BUFFERSHIGH=30,0
FILESHIGH=45
FCBSHIGH=4,0
STACKSHIGH=0,0
LASTDRIVEHIGH=Z

Still your main problem is that you have little upper memory and it's almost full

Reply 3 of 9, by NyLan

Posted on 2022-02-17, 14:52

NyLan Offline

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With

DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
=> 594KB

DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
=> 585KB

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 4 of 9, by NyLan

Posted on 2022-02-17, 15:07

NyLan Offline

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-02-17, 14:28:
Why so little upper memory? If you want to keep using himem and emm386 you can free some more memory using the high command for […]
Show full quote

Why so little upper memory?
If you want to keep using himem and emm386 you can free some more memory using the high command for the buffers, file, last drive etc:
Those are my settings:
BUFFERSHIGH=30,0
FILESHIGH=45
FCBSHIGH=4,0
STACKSHIGH=0,0
LASTDRIVEHIGH=Z

Still your main problem is that you have little upper memory and it's almost full

Yes that's the point, why so little upper memory ?
Adding HIGH to these lines doesn't help, I believe it's done by default, something I ready long time ago.
lowering FILES and Lastdrive help a bit. But still not that good.
I disabled all I could and not using from BIOS : LPT1, COM, Infrared... Doesn't help either.

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 5 of 9, by weedeewee

Posted on 2022-02-17, 15:35

weedeewee Offline

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try to include the pageframe address for the NOEMS configuration.
ie. I=E000-EFFF (i hope)

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Reply 6 of 9, by jskyboo

Posted on 2022-02-17, 15:42

jskyboo Offline

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Posts: 27
Joined: 2021-11-07, 01:54

For your EMM386 config depending on what option roms you have on your addon cards you can likely get a lot more upper memory by including I=C800-DFFF possibly more depending on your system, like on my system E000-EFFF is also free to use.

So try changing
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
to
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B000-B7FF I=C800-DFFF

You should check your upper memory usage with a tool like umbinfo. You might also get a benefit from moving the EMS location with the Mx argument here is a good reference http://info.wsisiz.edu.pl/~bse26236/batutil/help/EMM386S.HTM

Reply 7 of 9, by NyLan

Posted on 2022-02-18, 08:54

NyLan Offline

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ok, this is interesting. umbinfo was not that clear to me but I found that msd.exe from older DOS provides a memory browser. Seems I can use C800-DFFF and I'll continue to play with it to have better understanding of the way it's working AND the way I can play with Emm386 settings ( not always clear to me )

In the mean time I switched to SHSUCDX and mKeyb and disabled dblbuff.sys to load automatically ( from msdos.sys ) and added it in the Windows98 boot menu selection so I can load it only when booting into Windows98.
Now i'm sitting on 616KB ! But I'll continue to dig into emm386 and msd to see what can be done. (622KB when adding I=C800-DFFF)

1Modules using memory below 1 MB:
2
3  Name           Total           Conventional       Upper Memory
4  --------  ----------------   ----------------   ----------------
5  SYSTEM      16,016   (16K)      9,552    (9K)      6,464    (6K)
6  HIMEM        1,120    (1K)      1,120    (1K)          0    (0K)
7  EMM386       4,320    (4K)      4,320    (4K)          0    (0K)
8  SHSUCDX      6,224    (6K)      6,224    (6K)          0    (0K)
9  CWCDOS       1,296    (1K)      1,296    (1K)          0    (0K)
10  VIDECDD      5,024    (5K)          0    (0K)      5,024    (5K)
11  IFSHLP       2,864    (3K)          0    (0K)      2,864    (3K)
12  COMMAND      7,200    (7K)          0    (0K)      7,200    (7K)
13  CTMOUSE      3,104    (3K)          0    (0K)      3,104    (3K)
14  mKEYB          528    (1K)          0    (0K)        528    (1K)
15  Free       632,544  (618K)    630,496  (616K)      2,048    (2K)
16
17Memory Summary:
18
19  Type of Memory       Total         Used          Free
20  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
21  Conventional          653,312        22,816       630,496
22  Upper                  27,232        25,184         2,048
23  Reserved                    0             0             0
24  Extended (XMS)*   535,729,568     1,037,728   534,691,840
25  ----------------  -----------   -----------   -----------
26  Total memory      536,410,112     1,085,728   535,324,384
27
28  Total under 1 MB      680,544        48,000       632,544
29
30  Total Expanded (EMS)                 33,947,648    (32M)
31  Free Expanded (EMS)*                 33,554,432    (32M)
32
33  * EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
34    Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.
35
36  Largest executable program size         630,320   (616K)
37  Largest free upper memory block           2,048     (2K)
38  MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 8 of 9, by AirIntake

Posted on 2022-02-18, 18:55

AirIntake Offline

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Use Checkit version 3 to see what is taking up your upper memory. Run it on a clean boot or "safe mode command prompt only". You probably have some BIOS ROMs taking upper memory.

Once you find out which ROMs they are you can remove some of them by disabling things like USB2, USB DOS support, onboard Ethernet, and onboard video. If the video card bios is larger than 32kB that also can take up excessive upper memory, newer AGP cards can use 48 or even 64kB. The solution there is to use an older video card with a smaller ROM.

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Reply 9 of 9, by NyLan

Posted on 2022-02-18, 23:16

NyLan Offline

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Joined: 2020-06-29, 12:34
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It's a laptop and bios does not allow to disable lot of stuff. However I'm good now with my setup, having more than 600KB with or without EMS

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

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