VOGONS


First post, by NyLan

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Hey,

I'm trying to setup my IBM A20M Ms-Dos7 a nice configuration. I've setup a boot menu, with 3 entries.
1 for windows - does basically nothing and start Windows 98SE -
2 for Ms-Dos using Emm386 and Himem
3 for MS-Dos using Jemm ( or for testing )

I'm having lot of troubles to get the conventional memory I used to have with my other computers running Ms-Dos6.22. Memmaker does basically nothing and Qemm is even worst. ( and for some reason qemm needs to scan AND verify the memory on every single boot so it's taking 2-3 minutes ... each start )

Autoexec part when selecting Emm386

SET TMP=c:\windows\TEMP
SET TEMP=C:\windows\TEMP
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~2;C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~1;
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /E /D:OPTICAL
LH keyb sf,,c:\windows\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
LH C:\WINDOWS\cwcdata\cwcdos.exe
LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R33 /3

Config.sys part when selecting Emm386

NUMLOCK=OFF
BREAK=ON
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\DOS\Himem.Sys /TESTMEM:OFF
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERS=10,0
FILES=90
LASTDRIVE=F
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=9,256
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\VIDECDD.SYS /D:OPTICAL

Mem /c result

Modules using memory below 1Mb:

Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 18,864 (18K) 9,568 (9K) 9,296 (9K)
HIMEM 1,104 (1K) 1,104 (1K) 0 (0K)
EMM386 4,304 (4K) 4,304 (4K) 0 (0K)
DBLBUFF 2,960 (3K) 2,960 (3K) 0 (0K)
MSCDEX 15,792 (15K) 15,792 (15K) 0 (0K)
KEYB 6,944 (7K) 6,944 (7K) 0 (0K)
CWCDOS 1,296 (1K) 1,296 (1K) 0 (0K)
CTMOUSE 3,104 (3K) 3,104 (3K) 0 (0K)
VIDECDD 5,008 (5K) 0 (0K) 5,008 (5K)
IFSHLP 2,848 (3K) 0 (0K) 2,848 (3K)
COMMAND 7,168 (7K) 0 (0K) 7,168 (7K)
FREE 611,104 (597K) 608,224 (594K) 2,880 (3K)

Memory summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 655,360 47,136 608,224
Upper 27,200 24,320 2,880
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 535,756,800 1,064,960 534,691,840
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 536,439,360 1,136,416 535,302,944

Total under 1Mb 682,560 71,456 611,104

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (33,152K)
Free Expanded (EMS) 33,538,048 (32,752K)

Total Extended (XMS) 535,756,800 (523,200K)
Free Extended (XMS) 534,691,840 (522,160K)

Largest executable program size 608,128 (594K)
Largest free upper memory block 2,880 (3K)
Available space in High Memory Area 1,600 (2K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

When using JEMM

Autoexec.bat

SET TMP=c:\windows\TEMP
SET TEMP=C:\windows\TEMP
SET PROMPT=$p$g
SET winbootdir=C:\WINDOWS
SET PATH=C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~2;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;C:\PROGRA~1\THINKPAD\UTILIT~1;
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
LH keyb sf,,c:\windows\COMMAND\keyboard.sys
LH C:\WINDOWS\cwcdata\cwcdos.exe
LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R33 /3
LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /E /D:OPTICAL

Config.sys

NUMLOCK=OFF
BREAK=ON
DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\JEMM\JEMMEX.EXE I=B000-B7FF
BUFFERS=10,0
FILES=90
LASTDRIVE=F
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=9,256
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DRIVERS\JEMM\JLOAD.EXE C:\DRIVERS\JEMM\XCDROM32.DLL /D:OPTICAL

Results

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 18,832 (18K) 9,536 (9K) 9,296 (9K)
DBLBUFF 2,976 (3K) 2,976 (3K) 0 (0K)
KEYB 6,944 (7K) 6,944 (7K) 0 (0K)
CWCDOS 1,296 (1K) 1,296 (1K) 0 (0K)
MSCDEX 15,792 (15K) 15,792 (15K) 0 (0K)
JLOAD 64 (0K) 0 (0K) 64 (0K)
IFSHLP 2,864 (3K) 0 (0K) 2,864 (3K)
COMMAND 7,168 (7K) 0 (0K) 7,168 (7K)
CTMOUSE 3,104 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,104 (3K)
Free 626,240 (612K) 616,432 (602K) 9,808 (10K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 36,880 616,432
Upper 32,304 22,496 9,808
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 535,724,496 1,814,992 533,909,504
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 536,410,112 1,874,368 534,535,744

Total under 1 MB 685,616 59,376 626,240

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS) 33,538,048 (32M)
Largest executable program size 616,336 (602K)
Largest free upper memory block 9,072 (9K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

All advices welcome !

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 2 of 9, by Nemo1985

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Why so little upper memory?
If you want to keep using himem and emm386 you can free some more memory using the high command for the buffers, file, last drive etc:
Those are my settings:
BUFFERSHIGH=30,0
FILESHIGH=45
FCBSHIGH=4,0
STACKSHIGH=0,0
LASTDRIVEHIGH=Z

Still your main problem is that you have little upper memory and it's almost full

Reply 3 of 9, by NyLan

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With

DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
=> 594KB

DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
=> 585KB

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 4 of 9, by NyLan

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-02-17, 14:28:
Why so little upper memory? If you want to keep using himem and emm386 you can free some more memory using the high command for […]
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Why so little upper memory?
If you want to keep using himem and emm386 you can free some more memory using the high command for the buffers, file, last drive etc:
Those are my settings:
BUFFERSHIGH=30,0
FILESHIGH=45
FCBSHIGH=4,0
STACKSHIGH=0,0
LASTDRIVEHIGH=Z

Still your main problem is that you have little upper memory and it's almost full

Yes that's the point, why so little upper memory ?
Adding HIGH to these lines doesn't help, I believe it's done by default, something I ready long time ago.
lowering FILES and Lastdrive help a bit. But still not that good.
I disabled all I could and not using from BIOS : LPT1, COM, Infrared... Doesn't help either.

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 5 of 9, by weedeewee

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try to include the pageframe address for the NOEMS configuration.
ie. I=E000-EFFF (i hope)

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Do not ask Why !

Reply 6 of 9, by jskyboo

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For your EMM386 config depending on what option roms you have on your addon cards you can likely get a lot more upper memory by including I=C800-DFFF possibly more depending on your system, like on my system E000-EFFF is also free to use.

So try changing
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
to
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B000-B7FF I=C800-DFFF

You should check your upper memory usage with a tool like umbinfo. You might also get a benefit from moving the EMS location with the Mx argument here is a good reference http://info.wsisiz.edu.pl/~bse26236/batutil/help/EMM386S.HTM

Reply 7 of 9, by NyLan

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ok, this is interesting. umbinfo was not that clear to me but I found that msd.exe from older DOS provides a memory browser. Seems I can use C800-DFFF and I'll continue to play with it to have better understanding of the way it's working AND the way I can play with Emm386 settings ( not always clear to me )

In the mean time I switched to SHSUCDX and mKeyb and disabled dblbuff.sys to load automatically ( from msdos.sys ) and added it in the Windows98 boot menu selection so I can load it only when booting into Windows98.
Now i'm sitting on 616KB ! But I'll continue to dig into emm386 and msd to see what can be done. (622KB when adding I=C800-DFFF)

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total Conventional Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 16,016 (16K) 9,552 (9K) 6,464 (6K)
HIMEM 1,120 (1K) 1,120 (1K) 0 (0K)
EMM386 4,320 (4K) 4,320 (4K) 0 (0K)
SHSUCDX 6,224 (6K) 6,224 (6K) 0 (0K)
CWCDOS 1,296 (1K) 1,296 (1K) 0 (0K)
VIDECDD 5,024 (5K) 0 (0K) 5,024 (5K)
IFSHLP 2,864 (3K) 0 (0K) 2,864 (3K)
COMMAND 7,200 (7K) 0 (0K) 7,200 (7K)
CTMOUSE 3,104 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,104 (3K)
mKEYB 528 (1K) 0 (0K) 528 (1K)
Free 632,544 (618K) 630,496 (616K) 2,048 (2K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total Used Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 653,312 22,816 630,496
Upper 27,232 25,184 2,048
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS)* 535,729,568 1,037,728 534,691,840
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 536,410,112 1,085,728 535,324,384

Total under 1 MB 680,544 48,000 632,544

Total Expanded (EMS) 33,947,648 (32M)
Free Expanded (EMS)* 33,554,432 (32M)

* EMM386 is using XMS memory to simulate EMS memory as needed.
Free EMS memory may change as free XMS memory changes.

Largest executable program size 630,320 (616K)
Largest free upper memory block 2,048 (2K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub

Reply 8 of 9, by AirIntake

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Use Checkit version 3 to see what is taking up your upper memory. Run it on a clean boot or "safe mode command prompt only". You probably have some BIOS ROMs taking upper memory.

Once you find out which ROMs they are you can remove some of them by disabling things like USB2, USB DOS support, onboard Ethernet, and onboard video. If the video card bios is larger than 32kB that also can take up excessive upper memory, newer AGP cards can use 48 or even 64kB. The solution there is to use an older video card with a smaller ROM.

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Reply 9 of 9, by NyLan

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It's a laptop and bios does not allow to disable lot of stuff. However I'm good now with my setup, having more than 600KB with or without EMS

My Intel SE440BX-2 Intel's website Mirror : Modified to include docs, refs and BIOSes.
Proud owner of a TL866 II
Personal GitHub