VOGONS


Reply 100 of 146, by Sombrero

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 14:20:
Funny you say that about Doom3. I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3. I admire what it was trying to do, and it was mar […]
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Funny you say that about Doom3.
I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3.
I admire what it was trying to do, and it was marvel at it's technical superiority when it launched.
But the whole being forced to carry that damn flashlight and never being able to see what you were doing completely ruined it for me.
I know there are mods and all that to get past that, but it shouldn't require them.
It's just a game breaking mechanic that exists for no dang reason other than to "add atmosphere"

/rant.

Agree 100%. I remember playing it with desperate hope that it would get better. It didn't. Well, only the short visit to hell was fun, but I was not happy when the credits roll. Never gone back to it.

Here's another of mine: F.E.A.R.
Absolutely fantastic combat mechanics and the game was great looking to boot, but the levels... warehouses, office buildings and dank sewers, making levels more boring than the levels in F.E.A.R. is one hell of a achievement. Great combat completely gone to waste, the game is a snorefest to me. I usually require interesting and diverse environments to like FPS games, for that reason Half-Life 2 is one of my favorites while F.E.A.R. is one of the worst wasted opportunities I can think of.

Wasn't terribly fond of some of the jump scares either, I love it when games have thick atmosphere but jump scares are cheap crap as far as I'm concerned.

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Reply 101 of 146, by Namrok

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 14:20:
Funny you say that about Doom3. I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3. I admire what it was trying to do, and it was mar […]
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gerry wrote on 2022-04-22, 08:03:
there are quite a few i agree with! […]
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there are quite a few i agree with!

i'd add Quake and Quake 2 - both good gameplay but for me without much immersion or sense of 'being there'. I actually like Doom3 and Quake 4, though still not quite enough to consider myself a fan

GTA4 - it is impressive looking, i like the setting - but it's let down by ridiculous spec demands on a PC, unforgivably sloppy driving implementation and awkward contradiction between protagonists sympathetic 'realistic / gritty' story and the fact that he's a murderer (and inevitably, given the awful driving mechanics, a hit and run criminal too!)

point & click like monkey island - i want to like them but instead simply appreciate them for what they were at the time and not actually play them

Sombrero wrote on 2022-04-21, 06:57:

Halo: Combat Evolved:
I liked the music and the sci-fi plot, but I thought the levels were very repetitive and boring and wasn't terribly fond of the goofy comic book enemies either.

absolutely! a good enough game in gameplay terms but a wasted setting and cartoon enemies made this a lost opportunity in my view

SuperDeadite wrote on 2022-04-21, 12:01:

Blood. Episode 1 is fun, the rest of the game is so bland and boring. The gameplay "flow" is really poor too. Shooting flares into hoards if zombies then running in circles for 10 seconds waiting for them to ignite is just not fun. Having to quick save before every door because the corners have hidden hitscanners is not fun. Voodoo Doll is fun, but you need to save it for the gargoyles, so you can't just enjoy it.... I really don't get the current love for this game.

I think the oldschool difficulty is part of the current interest, plus the setting was strange and interesting - but i agree that after the first few maps it started to lose its grip

Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-21, 13:48:

I hate, hate , HATE turn based combat games. I can't fathom why anyone would enjoy playing them.

i quite like them sometimes for the 'chess game' feel but for me turn based is nicer in an RPG, where action that tends to favor twitch over tactics spoils the story imo

Namrok wrote on 2022-04-21, 14:57:

Man, I was all about Quake 3 over Unreal Tournament back in the day. My memory of it back then was that UT just didn't feel as responsive or performant. Quake 3 just ran better on a wider variety of computers.

I liked both Q3 and UT, preferring the latter overall and feeling it was more responsive to play. I've never seen a direct performance comparison with FPS, I/O response etc, would be interesting to see.

creepingnet wrote on 2022-04-21, 20:08:

Another genre I don't really get into much is the "fighting" genre, ie Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, or Tekken (and similar). These games just bore me and goes either one of two ways: either I kick everyone's patoot while bashing buttons randomly like a maniac, or I lose because I don't have the foggiest idea what I'm doing

totally agree while also accepting that there is genuine tactical play involved for those in the know, in the first 10+ plays it just feels like you're watching something not interacting, a steep learning curve not worth ascending imo

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-04-22, 02:44:

Also, MMORPGs. The amount of grinding is unfathomable, and one of the things I value the most about games in general, which is inmersion, is almost non-existant.

good points - they waste time and do not let you escape into imagination nor can you escape doing 'work'

Funny you say that about Doom3.
I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3.
I admire what it was trying to do, and it was marvel at it's technical superiority when it launched.
But the whole being forced to carry that damn flashlight and never being able to see what you were doing completely ruined it for me.
I know there are mods and all that to get past that, but it shouldn't require them.
It's just a game breaking mechanic that exists for no dang reason other than to "add atmosphere"

/rant.

Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my very first, almost no compromises gaming PC specifically for it. I was so proud of my Athlon 64, Geforce 6800 GT system. Doom 3 was one of the best pieces of software to show it off. I must have played it start to finish at least 3 times when it first came out.

Playing it recently, it started off as quite the struggle. It opens with strong horror elements, but they don't last. It's not until you finally get a plasma rifle that the game feel really clicks. The shotgun feels like a wet fart. The chaingun seemed like it constantly barely had any ammo. Many of the environments got repetitive and tedious far too quickly. The middle of the game where you are crossing from Alpha to Delta labs is just the most boring of red/browns.

But on the way to Delta labs, the action really picks up, your arsenal fills out, and generally I had a great time in the back half of the game. The lighting model also consistently pleased me. It, along with RTX powered global illumination, made me realize how much I hate how hacky and fake most ambient lighting in games is. And I think the Doom 3 engine holds up surprisingly well. Well, aside from all the character models having this weird plasticky sheen.

Honestly the whole flashlight thing never bothered me too much. I guess I'm in the minority on that though.

At least we got Prey out of that engine before it was put out to pasture.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 102 of 146, by Jasin Natael

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Sombrero wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:08:
Agree 100%. I remember playing it with desperate hope that it would get better. It didn't. Well, only the short visit to hell wa […]
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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 14:20:
Funny you say that about Doom3. I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3. I admire what it was trying to do, and it was mar […]
Show full quote

Funny you say that about Doom3.
I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3.
I admire what it was trying to do, and it was marvel at it's technical superiority when it launched.
But the whole being forced to carry that damn flashlight and never being able to see what you were doing completely ruined it for me.
I know there are mods and all that to get past that, but it shouldn't require them.
It's just a game breaking mechanic that exists for no dang reason other than to "add atmosphere"

/rant.

Agree 100%. I remember playing it with desperate hope that it would get better. It didn't. Well, only the short visit to hell was fun, but I was not happy when the credits roll. Never gone back to it.

Here's another of mine: F.E.A.R.
Absolutely fantastic combat mechanics and the game was great looking to boot, but the levels... warehouses, office buildings and dank sewers, making levels more boring than the levels in F.E.A.R. is one hell of a achievement. Great combat completely gone to waste, the game is a snorefest to me. I usually require interesting and diverse environments to like FPS games, for that reason Half-Life 2 is one of my favorites while F.E.A.R. is one of the worst wasted opportunities I can think of.

Wasn't terribly fond of some of the jump scares either, I love it when games have thick atmosphere but jump scares are cheap crap as far as I'm concerned.

You know I never did play F.E.A.R but it doesn't sound like it would be up my alley anyway.
Half Life 2 was great, I enjoyed it more than the first game which isn't common for me.

Reply 103 of 146, by Jasin Natael

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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:24:
Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my […]
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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 14:20:
Funny you say that about Doom3. I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3. I admire what it was trying to do, and it was mar […]
Show full quote
gerry wrote on 2022-04-22, 08:03:
there are quite a few i agree with! […]
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there are quite a few i agree with!

i'd add Quake and Quake 2 - both good gameplay but for me without much immersion or sense of 'being there'. I actually like Doom3 and Quake 4, though still not quite enough to consider myself a fan

GTA4 - it is impressive looking, i like the setting - but it's let down by ridiculous spec demands on a PC, unforgivably sloppy driving implementation and awkward contradiction between protagonists sympathetic 'realistic / gritty' story and the fact that he's a murderer (and inevitably, given the awful driving mechanics, a hit and run criminal too!)

point & click like monkey island - i want to like them but instead simply appreciate them for what they were at the time and not actually play them

absolutely! a good enough game in gameplay terms but a wasted setting and cartoon enemies made this a lost opportunity in my view

I think the oldschool difficulty is part of the current interest, plus the setting was strange and interesting - but i agree that after the first few maps it started to lose its grip

i quite like them sometimes for the 'chess game' feel but for me turn based is nicer in an RPG, where action that tends to favor twitch over tactics spoils the story imo

I liked both Q3 and UT, preferring the latter overall and feeling it was more responsive to play. I've never seen a direct performance comparison with FPS, I/O response etc, would be interesting to see.

totally agree while also accepting that there is genuine tactical play involved for those in the know, in the first 10+ plays it just feels like you're watching something not interacting, a steep learning curve not worth ascending imo

good points - they waste time and do not let you escape into imagination nor can you escape doing 'work'

Funny you say that about Doom3.
I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3.
I admire what it was trying to do, and it was marvel at it's technical superiority when it launched.
But the whole being forced to carry that damn flashlight and never being able to see what you were doing completely ruined it for me.
I know there are mods and all that to get past that, but it shouldn't require them.
It's just a game breaking mechanic that exists for no dang reason other than to "add atmosphere"

/rant.

Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my very first, almost no compromises gaming PC specifically for it. I was so proud of my Athlon 64, Geforce 6800 GT system. Doom 3 was one of the best pieces of software to show it off. I must have played it start to finish at least 3 times when it first came out.

Playing it recently, it started off as quite the struggle. It opens with strong horror elements, but they don't last. It's not until you finally get a plasma rifle that the game feel really clicks. The shotgun feels like a wet fart. The chaingun seemed like it constantly barely had any ammo. Many of the environments got repetitive and tedious far too quickly. The middle of the game where you are crossing from Alpha to Delta labs is just the most boring of red/browns.

But on the way to Delta labs, the action really picks up, your arsenal fills out, and generally I had a great time in the back half of the game. The lighting model also consistently pleased me. It, along with RTX powered global illumination, made me realize how much I hate how hacky and fake most ambient lighting in games is. And I think the Doom 3 engine holds up surprisingly well. Well, aside from all the character models having this weird plasticky sheen.

Honestly the whole flashlight thing never bothered me too much. I guess I'm in the minority on that though.

At least we got Prey out of that engine before it was put out to pasture.

Doom 3 game engine was a technical marvel. I think that it broke a lot of new ground and ushered in a new age of what could be expected from a game engine. I just think that the technical aspects were unfortunately the highlight of that particular game. I found it to be both boring and frustrating at the same time, which is a shame.
I think a lot of people would have similar thoughts on the OG Unreal, I however think it is still to play through, even if it is a bit of a slog after the 28th mission or so, 🤣.
But I agree 100% that the Doom 3 game engine still holds up very well even today.

Reply 104 of 146, by Namrok

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:45:
Doom 3 game engine was a technical marvel. I think that it broke a lot of new ground and ushered in a new age of what could be e […]
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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:24:
Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my […]
Show full quote
Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 14:20:
Funny you say that about Doom3. I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3. I admire what it was trying to do, and it was mar […]
Show full quote

Funny you say that about Doom3.
I really enjoyed Doom1 &2 but I hated Doom3.
I admire what it was trying to do, and it was marvel at it's technical superiority when it launched.
But the whole being forced to carry that damn flashlight and never being able to see what you were doing completely ruined it for me.
I know there are mods and all that to get past that, but it shouldn't require them.
It's just a game breaking mechanic that exists for no dang reason other than to "add atmosphere"

/rant.

Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my very first, almost no compromises gaming PC specifically for it. I was so proud of my Athlon 64, Geforce 6800 GT system. Doom 3 was one of the best pieces of software to show it off. I must have played it start to finish at least 3 times when it first came out.

Playing it recently, it started off as quite the struggle. It opens with strong horror elements, but they don't last. It's not until you finally get a plasma rifle that the game feel really clicks. The shotgun feels like a wet fart. The chaingun seemed like it constantly barely had any ammo. Many of the environments got repetitive and tedious far too quickly. The middle of the game where you are crossing from Alpha to Delta labs is just the most boring of red/browns.

But on the way to Delta labs, the action really picks up, your arsenal fills out, and generally I had a great time in the back half of the game. The lighting model also consistently pleased me. It, along with RTX powered global illumination, made me realize how much I hate how hacky and fake most ambient lighting in games is. And I think the Doom 3 engine holds up surprisingly well. Well, aside from all the character models having this weird plasticky sheen.

Honestly the whole flashlight thing never bothered me too much. I guess I'm in the minority on that though.

At least we got Prey out of that engine before it was put out to pasture.

Doom 3 game engine was a technical marvel. I think that it broke a lot of new ground and ushered in a new age of what could be expected from a game engine. I just think that the technical aspects were unfortunately the highlight of that particular game. I found it to be both boring and frustrating at the same time, which is a shame.
I think a lot of people would have similar thoughts on the OG Unreal, I however think it is still to play through, even if it is a bit of a slog after the 28th mission or so, 🤣.
But I agree 100% that the Doom 3 game engine still holds up very well even today.

You know, it's funny you mention Unreal, because a single level aside, I thought it did hold up rather well when I played it last year. The only thing that got on my nerves was how bullet spongy and dodgy the enemies/AI got in the back third of the game. Aside from that, the levels were varied and visually interesting. There was a good amount of environmental story telling, with a real sense of travelling and passage of time. The weapons were fun and creative. Still, I was rather exhausted by it towards the end, mostly on account of the AI roll dodging 75% of the time. The end could have come perhaps 2 or 3 levels sooner.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 105 of 146, by Jasin Natael

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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:57:
Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:45:
Doom 3 game engine was a technical marvel. I think that it broke a lot of new ground and ushered in a new age of what could be e […]
Show full quote
Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:24:
Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my […]
Show full quote

Doom 3 has an interest place in my heart. I was so excited for it when it came out. I spent a ton of summer intern money on my very first, almost no compromises gaming PC specifically for it. I was so proud of my Athlon 64, Geforce 6800 GT system. Doom 3 was one of the best pieces of software to show it off. I must have played it start to finish at least 3 times when it first came out.

Playing it recently, it started off as quite the struggle. It opens with strong horror elements, but they don't last. It's not until you finally get a plasma rifle that the game feel really clicks. The shotgun feels like a wet fart. The chaingun seemed like it constantly barely had any ammo. Many of the environments got repetitive and tedious far too quickly. The middle of the game where you are crossing from Alpha to Delta labs is just the most boring of red/browns.

But on the way to Delta labs, the action really picks up, your arsenal fills out, and generally I had a great time in the back half of the game. The lighting model also consistently pleased me. It, along with RTX powered global illumination, made me realize how much I hate how hacky and fake most ambient lighting in games is. And I think the Doom 3 engine holds up surprisingly well. Well, aside from all the character models having this weird plasticky sheen.

Honestly the whole flashlight thing never bothered me too much. I guess I'm in the minority on that though.

At least we got Prey out of that engine before it was put out to pasture.

Doom 3 game engine was a technical marvel. I think that it broke a lot of new ground and ushered in a new age of what could be expected from a game engine. I just think that the technical aspects were unfortunately the highlight of that particular game. I found it to be both boring and frustrating at the same time, which is a shame.
I think a lot of people would have similar thoughts on the OG Unreal, I however think it is still to play through, even if it is a bit of a slog after the 28th mission or so, 🤣.
But I agree 100% that the Doom 3 game engine still holds up very well even today.

You know, it's funny you mention Unreal, because a single level aside, I thought it did hold up rather well when I played it last year. The only thing that got on my nerves was how bullet spongy and dodgy the enemies/AI got in the back third of the game. Aside from that, the levels were varied and visually interesting. There was a good amount of environmental story telling, with a real sense of travelling and passage of time. The weapons were fun and creative. Still, I was rather exhausted by it towards the end, mostly on account of the AI roll dodging 75% of the time. The end could have come perhaps 2 or 3 levels sooner.

Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played the game at launch and on my first PC that was strictly "mine" and not a family PC. First time I had to upgrade a component to be able to run a game adequately.
So I don't think my opinion of that game is completely without it's bias.
It can definitely get a bit tiring near the end, and the bullet dodge/sponge thing is a VERY fair judgement. I guess I just like that world enough that I can look past it. It has been a few years since I've played the entire campaign however, so I might have a different opinion today.

Reply 106 of 146, by Namrok

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Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:13:
Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played […]
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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:57:
Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:45:

Doom 3 game engine was a technical marvel. I think that it broke a lot of new ground and ushered in a new age of what could be expected from a game engine. I just think that the technical aspects were unfortunately the highlight of that particular game. I found it to be both boring and frustrating at the same time, which is a shame.
I think a lot of people would have similar thoughts on the OG Unreal, I however think it is still to play through, even if it is a bit of a slog after the 28th mission or so, 🤣.
But I agree 100% that the Doom 3 game engine still holds up very well even today.

You know, it's funny you mention Unreal, because a single level aside, I thought it did hold up rather well when I played it last year. The only thing that got on my nerves was how bullet spongy and dodgy the enemies/AI got in the back third of the game. Aside from that, the levels were varied and visually interesting. There was a good amount of environmental story telling, with a real sense of travelling and passage of time. The weapons were fun and creative. Still, I was rather exhausted by it towards the end, mostly on account of the AI roll dodging 75% of the time. The end could have come perhaps 2 or 3 levels sooner.

Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played the game at launch and on my first PC that was strictly "mine" and not a family PC. First time I had to upgrade a component to be able to run a game adequately.
So I don't think my opinion of that game is completely without it's bias.
It can definitely get a bit tiring near the end, and the bullet dodge/sponge thing is a VERY fair judgement. I guess I just like that world enough that I can look past it. It has been a few years since I've played the entire campaign however, so I might have a different opinion today.

It's funny reading contemporary press opinions about Unreal, because it was praised for it's AI. It was a big todo that the guy who made Reaperbot for Quake was hired to do it. And I think in the context of where Unreal went (multiplayer only with bots), the AI is fantastic.

But for a single player campaign, it was tedious. It was like having to win a multiplayer deathmatch every time you entered a room. Totally destroyed the flow of exploration and puzzle solving. At least IMHO.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
Win98 - K6-2+ 500, GF2 MX, SB AWE 64 CT4500, SBLive CT4780
Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 107 of 146, by Tetrium

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Sombrero wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:08:

Here's another of mine: F.E.A.R.
Absolutely fantastic combat mechanics and the game was great looking to boot, but the levels... warehouses, office buildings and dank sewers, making levels more boring than the levels in F.E.A.R. is one hell of a achievement. Great combat completely gone to waste, the game is a snorefest to me. I usually require interesting and diverse environments to like FPS games, for that reason Half-Life 2 is one of my favorites while F.E.A.R. is one of the worst wasted opportunities I can think of.

Wasn't terribly fond of some of the jump scares either, I love it when games have thick atmosphere but jump scares are cheap crap as far as I'm concerned.

I can really relate to how you like the combat mechanics and the visuals (I especially liked the hallucinations and the effects looked nice as well).
I recognize what you say about the level design. What is mostly my pet peeve is that the levels look so blocky/squarish. This alone almost made me quit my 1st FEAR playthrough...that was until I saw the first hallucination. And I really love the look of someone telesomethingally vaporizing the flesh clean off of someones bones ^^
I kept on getting WTF?!?-moments with these during my first playthrough.

Btw my least favorite level was the one where you have to disable all those turrets.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 108 of 146, by TheMobRules

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I haven't played Unreal (beyond the very first level) since I completed the game back in 1998... I also seem to remember the last few levels being a struggle (don't recall if I was playing in Medium or Hard difficulty). There was a room in particular where it was dark and there was wave after wave of those Skaarj dudes, it was seemingly unending! I had to savescum my way out of that room as I wasn't sure if the game was bugged or something.

Reply 109 of 146, by Tetrium

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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:17:
Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:13:
Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played […]
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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:57:

You know, it's funny you mention Unreal, because a single level aside, I thought it did hold up rather well when I played it last year. The only thing that got on my nerves was how bullet spongy and dodgy the enemies/AI got in the back third of the game. Aside from that, the levels were varied and visually interesting. There was a good amount of environmental story telling, with a real sense of travelling and passage of time. The weapons were fun and creative. Still, I was rather exhausted by it towards the end, mostly on account of the AI roll dodging 75% of the time. The end could have come perhaps 2 or 3 levels sooner.

Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played the game at launch and on my first PC that was strictly "mine" and not a family PC. First time I had to upgrade a component to be able to run a game adequately.
So I don't think my opinion of that game is completely without it's bias.
It can definitely get a bit tiring near the end, and the bullet dodge/sponge thing is a VERY fair judgement. I guess I just like that world enough that I can look past it. It has been a few years since I've played the entire campaign however, so I might have a different opinion today.

It's funny reading contemporary press opinions about Unreal, because it was praised for it's AI. It was a big todo that the guy who made Reaperbot for Quake was hired to do it. And I think in the context of where Unreal went (multiplayer only with bots), the AI is fantastic.

But for a single player campaign, it was tedious. It was like having to win a multiplayer deathmatch every time you entered a room. Totally destroyed the flow of exploration and puzzle solving. At least IMHO.

I actually really liked the good bots. The fighting of the bots alternated with the exploration bit along with the varied levels and atmospheric OST is actually one of my favorite bits of the game. it's part op the reason I like Deep Rock Galactic a lot these days as it also is either exploring (along with some problemsolving like bridging large gaps in the cave systems) along with the occasional huuuuge waves of attacking mobs.

It keeps me on my toes 😋

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 110 of 146, by Tetrium

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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:26:

I haven't played Unreal (beyond the very first level) since I completed the game back in 1998... I also seem to remember the last few levels being a struggle (don't recall if I was playing in Medium or Hard difficulty). There was a room in particular where it was dark and there was wave after wave of those Skaarj dudes, it was seemingly unending! I had to savescum my way out of that room as I wasn't sure if the game was bugged or something.

Sounds like the level after you shut down that reactor or something with those mutated glowing enemies and you having to rely on some huge torchlight?
I LOVED that level! xD

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My retro rigs (old topic)
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Reply 112 of 146, by Jasin Natael

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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:17:
Jasin Natael wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:13:
Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played […]
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Namrok wrote on 2022-04-26, 15:57:

You know, it's funny you mention Unreal, because a single level aside, I thought it did hold up rather well when I played it last year. The only thing that got on my nerves was how bullet spongy and dodgy the enemies/AI got in the back third of the game. Aside from that, the levels were varied and visually interesting. There was a good amount of environmental story telling, with a real sense of travelling and passage of time. The weapons were fun and creative. Still, I was rather exhausted by it towards the end, mostly on account of the AI roll dodging 75% of the time. The end could have come perhaps 2 or 3 levels sooner.

Yes. I can totally see where you are coming from in that regard. I think mostly for me it is rose tinted glasses. I first played the game at launch and on my first PC that was strictly "mine" and not a family PC. First time I had to upgrade a component to be able to run a game adequately.
So I don't think my opinion of that game is completely without it's bias.
It can definitely get a bit tiring near the end, and the bullet dodge/sponge thing is a VERY fair judgement. I guess I just like that world enough that I can look past it. It has been a few years since I've played the entire campaign however, so I might have a different opinion today.

It's funny reading contemporary press opinions about Unreal, because it was praised for it's AI. It was a big todo that the guy who made Reaperbot for Quake was hired to do it. And I think in the context of where Unreal went (multiplayer only with bots), the AI is fantastic.

But for a single player campaign, it was tedious. It was like having to win a multiplayer deathmatch every time you entered a room. Totally destroyed the flow of exploration and puzzle solving. At least IMHO.

Yes 100%
The AI was groundbreaking at the time in regards to botmatches. And as as teen who lived in a very rural town with only crappy dial up internet I couldn't very well play online. This was much appreciated.
But yeah the single player could get a little overbearing at times, especially in the later levels.

Reply 113 of 146, by Jasin Natael

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Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:30:
TheMobRules wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:26:

I haven't played Unreal (beyond the very first level) since I completed the game back in 1998... I also seem to remember the last few levels being a struggle (don't recall if I was playing in Medium or Hard difficulty). There was a room in particular where it was dark and there was wave after wave of those Skaarj dudes, it was seemingly unending! I had to savescum my way out of that room as I wasn't sure if the game was bugged or something.

Sounds like the level after you shut down that reactor or something with those mutated glowing enemies and you having to rely on some huge torchlight?
I LOVED that level! xD

Yes I think that is the level. It was fun but it definitely could wear on a person.

Reply 115 of 146, by Bruno128

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TheMobRules wrote on 2022-04-26, 16:26:

There was a room in particular where it was dark and there was wave after wave of those Skaarj dudes, it was seemingly unending!

The level in question seem to be the "Darkening". And yes it is unending on Hard the enemies will respawn.

Reply 117 of 146, by Shreddoc

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I don't care for ANY sequel, unless that sequel re-proves itself in it's own right.

Some do. Some don't.

Doom 3 passed that test, because despite it's glaring flaws, people still routinely praise aspects of the game today. It's its own thing. For it's era, it set the high bar for certain things. Carmack style.

Quake 4? Never even bothered to load the thing, personally.

Reply 119 of 146, by RandomStranger

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Interesting. Quake 4 is a much better Quake 2 sequel than compared to Doom 3 as a Doom 2 sequel. And also Q4 is a better game on its own right than D3.

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