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First post, by teh_Foxx0rz

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Playing the original Half Life retail CD (even with patches) on my Pentium III systems with Geforce cards seems to get me this peculiar texture issue, where a lot of models have just plain white textures and the HUD elements are all single-colour squares. I've been using the last drivers available officially from Nvidia's site, 81.98; I wanted to try the earlier 45.23 drivers that I've seen recommended, but something about the download (from PhilsComputerLab's site) didn't let Windows 98SE see them as drivers at all. And I've seen mentions that they're not necessarily the best for DX9 games anyway, not that the FX series are the best cards for those either, but I want to give mine the best chance y'know? And with an FX 5700 and the 1.4GHz Tualatin system that it's in, it feels suitable to have the freedom to see how well I can run certain DX9 games. I've not have any problems like this with other games I've tried; Rome Total War had a visually somewhat similar issue when trying it on my Geforce 4, but was fine on my FX 5700, so I'm putting that down to a DX9 compatibility issue.

So what could be happening here, and what could I try to troubleshoot or address this? Perhaps there could be some other recommended drivers or something, for instance.

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Reply 1 of 10, by weldum

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i think it's the driver that's causing that issue
i think in vogons drivers are some older versions that can be useful
from what i remember, later drivers are problematic in windows 9x, 45.23 is a very good one

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Reply 2 of 10, by Cuttoon

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Well, if you play CS 1.5 with certain custom mini-gl drivers for your Voodoo 3, you can see through walls at some points due to clipping errors, giving you a competitive edge with heavier weapons like the scout, g3 or AWP.
So I've heard.

Release note don't mention the FX5700 and it is a later chip (NV36) than the FX5800:
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/45.23/NVID … otes_v45.23.pdf
So, maybe you really need a slightly later version or to threaten your Windows to put it on an induction cooking pad if it does not comply with installing them.

General note: I never had issues fragging people on a V3 in HL or CS and eventually upgraded to a GF4 Ti4200 without remembering much of a difference.

Half-Life is a Titan of a game, but it's from 1998 and based on the Quake Engine from 1996. So, by Geforce FX standards already, it's ancient.

Then, it got upgraded with all kinds of high res texture packs, etc, that won't be supported by the prehistoric engine and hence, not by any hardware 3d acceleration.
Leaving all the heavy lifting to software and the CPU. Which is why later HL with all the tweaks might run worse on a later CPU with later 3D GPU since all the patchwork upgrades overcompensate for the advance in the CPU and they tended to be overlooked in favor of the GPU budget.
It became a bloody CPU hog.

Meaning: Initial release of HL should work on a potato, HL with all the updates, not so much. Don't be surprised if a system past a 1.4 GHz Hoitytoity gives you some extra FPS, no matter the GPU. I played CS on a 1.4 Athlon TB, which seemed adequate.

Not an expert on all that stuff, but wasn't HL supposed to run on open GL anyway? Will the Dx version matter at all?

I like jumpers.

Reply 3 of 10, by teh_Foxx0rz

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Don't worry, I've not upgraded to the high-res packs or anything. Looks like I've just upgraded to version 1.0.1.3.

But it runs buttery smooth in performance, it just has this weird texture issue. It has a few performance issues on my Voodoo 3/PIII 1GHz system without the issue, however.

And yeah, I saw on Philscomputerlab that the early FXes are supported by 45.23, but not the later ones. But still, I'd like to have that DX9 assurance anyway, such as it may be.

Reply 4 of 10, by Joseph_Joestar

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teh_Foxx0rz wrote on 2022-05-06, 01:02:

I wanted to try the earlier 45.23 drivers that I've seen recommended, but something about the download (from PhilsComputerLab's site) didn't let Windows 98SE see them as drivers at all.

That's because your FX5700 is too new for 45.23. Try using 56.64 instead.

And I've seen mentions that they're not necessarily the best for DX9 games anyway

Whoever told you that is incorrect. Driver version 45.23 was released in July of 2003. By that time, DirectX 9 was already out for over six months, and the driver is clearly optimized for it.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
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PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 5 of 10, by teh_Foxx0rz

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-05-06, 03:32:
That's because your FX5700 is too new for 45.23. Try using 56.64 instead. […]
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teh_Foxx0rz wrote on 2022-05-06, 01:02:

I wanted to try the earlier 45.23 drivers that I've seen recommended, but something about the download (from PhilsComputerLab's site) didn't let Windows 98SE see them as drivers at all.

That's because your FX5700 is too new for 45.23. Try using 56.64 instead.

And I've seen mentions that they're not necessarily the best for DX9 games anyway

Whoever told you that is incorrect. Driver version 45.23 was released in July of 2003. By that time, DirectX 9 was already out for over six months, and the driver is clearly optimized for it.

Alright, thanks! Yeah, I'll try 56.64 and report back.

Reply 6 of 10, by Cuttoon

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teh_Foxx0rz wrote on 2022-05-06, 03:25:

Don't worry, I've not upgraded to the high-res packs or anything. Looks like I've just upgraded to version 1.0.1.3.

Not sure any more to what extend half-life allowed one to install bug fix or patch updates without installing more demanding graphics at the same time - was a big topic with competitive gamers back then.

My main point was - don't think any GPU performance will make much difference beyond the GF4 and the game itself is Dx6. So, if you could do without the FX, an earlier card should be fine, if it gives you less troube.
But, not my field of expertise - some here obviously have analyzed that to death and back.
Anyway, I'm rather sure you've figured out the problem and the FX will work now.

I like jumpers.

Reply 7 of 10, by teh_Foxx0rz

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Hmm, unfortunately it seems 56.64 didn't fix the issue. Although, it wasn't on a clean install, instead "updating" from 81.98, if that would make any difference.

But well, maybe it's a settings issue? Half Life was 1998, before Hardware T&L was introduced with the original Geforce; maybe something like that could be causing some issues? I can't see any settings related to that in the Nvidia options, but perhaps someone might know something else to try.

The strange thing though is that I couldn't find any other instances of this issue in searches; hence me asking here. If it didn't also happen with my Geforce 4 card, I'd try my backup FX 5200 to see if it might be a problem with my particular card. And if it was a known compatibility issue with Geforce cards (like Incoming has), or something like that, then sure, I'd live with it since the FX cards are so broadly compatible otherwise. But I've not seen anything to suggest it's a widespread issue, so it's confusing.

Reply 8 of 10, by Joseph_Joestar

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teh_Foxx0rz wrote on 2022-05-07, 22:09:

Hmm, unfortunately it seems 56.64 didn't fix the issue. Although, it wasn't on a clean install, instead "updating" from 81.98, if that would make any difference.

When downgrading, you need to completely remove the current Nvidia drivers before installing any lower version.

To do that, go to Control Panel > Add Remove Programs and uninstall the Nvidia Display Driver. If you forced the lower driver version on top of a newer one, you may have broken the uninstall process as well as the driver itself.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 9 of 10, by auron

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i'm guessing this is the openGL renderer? try the "limit opengl extensions" option, which should be in those drivers, or switching to the D3D renderer ingame. HL is definitely one of those games that need tweaking to get everything to work on certain setups.

Reply 10 of 10, by mothergoose729

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I don't think there is much difference between driver version 45.23 and 56.64. At least, I have never noticed a difference.

If you are on driver version 81 though that could be an issue. I would try completely removing the driver and installing 56.64.