Basically abandonware is pirated software which the owner doesn't care enough to complain.
In my opinion, despite it being piracy by technical terms, abandonware has a very important role preserving software that otherwise would be lost forever for not having comercial value.
It's thanks to abandonware and ROM sites that we have all this "retro" market today, not to mention emulators which are mature the way they are because of a lot of unpaid work done by the community of "pirates" the industry despises today (I'm looking at you, Nintendo...bunch of ungrateful jerks).

Abandonware is a very nebulous term, considering that people may talk about non-existent issues that could be caused by pirated or cracked software. Examples are missing files and CD music being disregarded.

Originally the term was meant for software that the original owners or manufacturers abandoned without passing the trademarks to anyone else, leaving no official support at all.

Abandonware does not exist. If you wish to share links to copyrighted software there are plenty of methods available that do not require public posts and are not moderated.

If you want vogons to change that stance then you'll need to write a very large check so that all aspects of such a change can be funded.

leeme get uhhhhhhhhhh calcification

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-04, 00:25:

If a piece of software was only available with hardware and NEVER sold separately, is it ok to let people know where to get it if they ask?

I think the nuance here has been missed by the replies.

A recent thread was closed on abandonware grounds because someone asked about a utility that to my knowledge, only ever shipped as part of a driver suite. Those drivers are linked here often...

I don't think the question here is whether Vogons should open the floodgates on abandonware links. But perhaps there is room to consider whether or not a given request is actually a problem.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-06-04, 14:58:

leeme get uhhhhhhhhhh calcification

Stupid phone autocorrect. I didn't even notice it before I posted.

Pierre32 wrote on 2023-06-04, 15:22:

I think the nuance here has been missed by the replies. […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-04, 00:25:

If a piece of software was only available with hardware and NEVER sold separately, is it ok to let people know where to get it if they ask?

I think the nuance here has been missed by the replies.

A recent thread was closed on abandonware grounds because someone asked about a utility that to my knowledge, only ever shipped as part of a driver suite. Those drivers are linked here often...

I don't think the question here is whether Vogons should open the floodgates on abandonware links. But perhaps there is room to consider whether or not a given request is actually a problem.

EXACTLY!

Sometimes software can be in copyright limbo and nobody could claim it. For example, No One Lives Forever, by all definitions, is abandonware. It happens sometimes during company bankruptcies and mergers. And after certain period of time, it will become public domain.

Pierre32 wrote on 2023-06-04, 15:22:

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-04, 00:25:

If a piece of software was only available with hardware and NEVER sold separately, is it ok to let people know where to get it if they ask?

I think the nuance here has been missed by the replies.

I see. It was really about bundled software with the possibility of a special version not being available elsewhere.

In that case it is a gray area since the software can be the full version of a product.

A recent thread was closed on abandonware grounds because someone asked about a utility that to my knowledge, only ever shipped as part of a driver suite. Those drivers are linked here often...

Yep, I know which one you are talking about. That software is often found on official floppy disks containing the essential drivers.

being a portion, depending on, or complementary for a piece of hardware does not absolve software of copyright protection.

(I never gave in to PMs begging for Stealth3d 2000's games)

The thread that got closed was somebody asking for Dr. Sbaitso which was made by Creative and was only ever provided with the install disks for some of their ISA sound cards.

It is literally included in the install disks and was never available in any form other than on those install disks.

Closing a thread of a person asking about where to get a working copy because it is "abandoneware" without even looking into it is just plain ridiculous.

That is why I made this thread... to get clarification on what is officially allowed here. Cause if linking driver disk images is considered "abandonware", then a majority of the threads about hardware need to be wiped from this forum.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-05, 04:51:

The thread that got closed was somebody asking for Dr. Sbaitso which was made by Creative and was only ever provided with the install disks for some of their ISA sound cards.

Those driver disk images are available on Vogonsdrivers, for whatever that's worth.

Simply put:

If a letter *does not* arrive from a company's lawyer in the mail when you post it online, but a PM from a Vogons admin *does* arrive in your inbox when you post it on Vogons, then it's abandonware.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2023-06-05, 04:53:

Those driver disk images are available on Vogonsdrivers, for whatever that's worth. […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-05, 04:51:

The thread that got closed was somebody asking for Dr. Sbaitso which was made by Creative and was only ever provided with the install disks for some of their ISA sound cards.

Those driver disk images are available on Vogonsdrivers, for whatever that's worth.

Simply put:

If a letter *does not* arrive from a company's lawyer in the mail when you post it online, but a PM from a Vogons admin *does* arrive in your inbox, then it's abandonware.

I know the driver disks are on vogonsdrivers. I initially made the question really open ended and for whatever reason am getting nothing but crickets.

I asked about it in a PM and haven't gotten a response. Must mean it isn't abandonware.

I've never seen the Vogons admins enforce the abandonware policy against driver disks before.

Does this policy also now apply to things like the IBM PC Diagnostics Disk, since it was proprietary software that was only ever bundled with a piece of hardware?

Drivers have generally always been free to distribute, like game demos.

Copyright can allow various uses including non commercial distribution. Large amounts of open source software os copyrighted, even under the GPL.

Copyright means "do what the license says".

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-06-04, 15:32:

Sometimes software can be in copyright limbo and nobody could claim it. For example, No One Lives Forever, by all definitions, is abandonware. It happens sometimes during company bankruptcies and mergers. And after certain period of time, it will become public domain.

In the USA that certain period of time is 95 years after first publication or 120 years after its creation if it was a work for hire, or the life of the author plus 70 years. The fact the copyright holder is not known (or that the copyright holder themselves is unaware of their rights) does not affect the duration of the copyright in any way. Copyright remains until it expires or the copyright holder gives it up (assuming their country allows that). Some countries do have specific laws dealing with Orphaned Works but none treat such works as being in the public domain.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-05, 04:55:

keenmaster486 wrote on 2023-06-05, 04:53:

Those driver disk images are available on Vogonsdrivers, for whatever that's worth. […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-06-05, 04:51:

The thread that got closed was somebody asking for Dr. Sbaitso which was made by Creative and was only ever provided with the install disks for some of their ISA sound cards.

Those driver disk images are available on Vogonsdrivers, for whatever that's worth.

Simply put:

If a letter *does not* arrive from a company's lawyer in the mail when you post it online, but a PM from a Vogons admin *does* arrive in your inbox, then it's abandonware.

I know the driver disks are on vogonsdrivers. I initially made the question really open ended and for whatever reason am getting nothing but crickets.

I asked about it in a PM and haven't gotten a response. Must mean it isn't abandonware.

Don't make assumptions since you'll usually be wrong. Being a moderator isn't a 24/7 job and you are correct since there is no abandonware then it isnt.

The other thread was closed due to linking to a site known for distribution of software that they shouldn't because it's so called "abandonware" and is the typical type of post asking for games without any awareness of vogons policy.

It's possible the other thread may be able to be unlocked If we are stating that this is a "demo" used to demonstrate a product and not a "game", I'd have to review. You should have stated in the op that you were asking about that thread instead of being vague.

DosFreak wrote on 2023-06-05, 09:33:

The other thread was closed due to linking to a site known for distribution of software that they shouldn't because it's so called "abandonware" and is the typical type of post asking for games without any awareness of vogons policy.

That doesn't make sense. Google doesn't get a C&D every time it 'links' to pirated or otherwise abandonware material.

In the case of the drivers that are the necessary part for the hardware to work correctly and the software that accompanies them and that are only useful for the hardware for which they were created, it could be said that they are directly linked. That is to say, if you don't have, for example, a Sound Blaster 16, its drivers and software are not interesting or useful to you, but if you do have one without its drivers and software, it could not be used either. And also the drivers and software corresponding to a piece of hardware were distributed together with it, so downloading an ISO of a CD of those drivers and software would be the same as downloading your own backup.
One example, although there are many others from the time, the case of the Rebel Moon Game for the 3D Blaster, is not very useful if you don't have that graphics card, which I think only exists in that version. But if you are the lucky owner of one of those cards, would it be piracy to use an ISO downloaded from the internet because you don't have the original CD that came with the graphics card?
It is only a question and opinion, without the intention of offending, my apologies if it is so.