Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Discussion about old sound cards, MIDI devices and sound related accessories.

Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby keropi » 2014-8-20 @ 07:31

got another friend interested so I am up for 2x kits + brackets (gotta have brackets LOL) without SIDs
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Stojke » 2014-8-20 @ 07:54

After some thinking, i will also go for KIT + BRACKET , no SID chip, as i will obtain one easily.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-25 @ 17:26

Finally, I have CD74HC192 in my hands.
It works differently than K555IE6. :neutral:

Currently with 555IE6 jumper selects frequency between 0.89 and 1.02 MHz, but with 74HC192 installed it transforms into 1.02/1.19 MHz. So when K555IE6 divides by 7 CD74HC192 divides by 6 and when K555IE6 divides by 8 CD74HC192 divides by 7.

Interesting, I also have some DV74HC192 ICs, they are made in Belarus (also former USSR part, where K555IE6 were created). But DV74HC192 performs in the same way as "original" CD74HC192 does.

So, according to international status of the replica kit, i will fix PCB layout in next revision, so it will be compatible with HC192 ICs to allow 0.89/1.02 selection, as it printed on the PCB.
Current version of the board works only with 555IE6. With HC192 it gives 1.02/1.19 MHz clocks.

And some more info: I've got message that MOS6582A works well in the replica as the 8580 does. Both run with +9V regulator installed. :cool:
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-25 @ 19:01

Fagear wrote:Currently with 555IE6 jumper selects frequency between 0.89 and 1.02 MHz, but with 74HC192 installed it transforms into 1.02/1.19 MHz. So when K555IE6 divides by 7 CD74HC192 divides by 6 and when K555IE6 divides by 8 CD74HC192 divides by 7.
Interesting ... didn't think that would happen, but hey, minor differences between russian/soviet and western chips were already common in the 80's - like the 1818VG93 (clone of WDC1793) has a 2.5mm pin pitch rather than 2.54mm. Either way, thanks for making an international version.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby keropi » 2014-8-25 @ 19:18

^ great news!
I wonder though, maybe it would be better for the board to use for all logic the globally available 74series ICs instead of the Russian equivalents? The end user could order easily a replacement in case that it's needed.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-25 @ 19:30

shock__ wrote:the 1818VG93 (clone of WDC1793) has a 2.5mm pin pitch rather than 2.54mm. Either way, thanks for making an international version.

Yes, 2.5mm pitch was pretty common in USSR.

keropi wrote:maybe it would be better for the board to use for all logic the globally available 74series ICs instead of the Russian equivalents? The end user could order easily a replacement in case that it's needed.

I've tested already all other ICs and there are no any other differences between 74 series and 555 series ICs used in this card. So there will be no problems with compatibility. Also, new revision will have both 74- and 555- silkscreen markings under chips:
Image
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Stojke » 2014-8-25 @ 19:31

Shouldn't it say : PCB & Layout Made in RUSSIA? :)
Aweosme stuff btw. I cant wait for some one to write an app to play SIDs in DOS.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-25 @ 19:37

Stojke wrote:Shouldn't it say : PCB & Layout Made in RUSSIA? :)

Look somewhere around joystick port footprint... :lol:

Stojke wrote:Aweosme stuff btw. I cant wait for some one to write an app to play SIDs in DOS.

Yes, I'm also waiting for it. I'm also a programmer (C, C++ and many other languages) but never wrote something like DOS application or driver. So, I think that will be not me who will write a software.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-26 @ 00:27

I've scratched my head a little bit and came up with revision 2.3:
Image

Repositioned jumpers, added two more resistors and changed layout of SID clock selector jumpers.
Also new silkscreen tips for SID clock and more tidy layout around 74HC192.
PCB is now universal: it can take either K555IE6 or 74HC192.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby carlostex » 2014-8-26 @ 07:27

The more of us interested the cheaper these boards will be right? I'll take a fully assembled board, with bracket without SID. I'll get the SID's myself.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-26 @ 09:06

carlostex wrote:I'll take a fully assembled board, with bracket without SID. I'll get the SID's myself.

Ok.

carlostex wrote:The more of us interested the cheaper these boards will be right?

That's right.
Currently I have "pre-orders" for 8 boards.

I have some problems with brackets... Can't find any reasonably priced manufacturer. Current layout is adapted for Keystone 9202 bracket, but it comes with no holes. It can be bought quite cheap. Haven't contacted Keystone yet for prices for custom brackets, but I feel that they will not even look at me if I'll order less than 1000 brackets. That's would be a huge price.
Didn't find any other places and I don't have any friends in metalworking industry.

1) If I'll try to drill holes for myself for all boards, that's will be slow and not accurate. Possible, but not great result.
2) I can ship compatible bracket with no holes, so end user will have to deal with it. If no joystick port needed and audio output will be taken from inside header - you can leave out output connectors and solid bracket will suit like a glove. Accurate, but feature-limiting and not great solution. Also you can drill holes yourself. Fully featured but possibly not accurate and hard to do solution.
3) Maybe I can retrace board for some already manufactured bracket, for example, take Creative CT4170 or any low-end ESS AudioDrive. Replace output RCA with 3,5" mini-jack, use second one for SID "Audio In" (theoretically can be useful) and leave third unused.

What do you think?
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-26 @ 10:43

Fagear wrote:3) Maybe I can retrace board for some already manufactured bracket, for example, take Creative CT4170 or any low-end ESS AudioDrive. Replace output RCA with 3,5" mini-jack, use second one for SID "Audio In" (theoretically can be useful) and leave third unused.
Swapping the RCA jack against a 3.5mm one sounds reasonable to me - considering RCA jacks were barely used on consumer grade soundcards anyways.

Another question ... what's up with the rightmost electrolytic cap? Are those 4 additional pinholes for axial caps?
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-26 @ 11:19

shock__ wrote:Swapping the RCA jack against a 3.5mm one sounds reasonable to me - considering RCA jacks were barely used on consumer grade soundcards anyways.

Got it. I'll wait for some more opinions from others, but feels like three 3.5mm are the way to go.

shock__ wrote:Another question ... what's up with the rightmost electrolytic cap? Are those 4 additional pinholes for axial caps?

Fagear wrote:I've managed to write some marketing crap for the replica. :lol:
...
+ Output electrolytic capacitor now can be replaced with film one

That's for those audiophiles, who hate electrolytics in audio path. Output cap can be replaced with film (polypropylene!) capacitor. :wink:

I have one more question: are new silkscreen tips clear? Is everything easy to understand? I think with such silkscreen you don't need any manual with the kit. :lol:

P.S. Already tried TWO boards in one PC for some "pseudo-stereo" effect. Two boards work well together, not much stereo effect though.
Image Image
Last edited by Fagear on 2014-8-26 @ 16:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby carlostex » 2014-8-26 @ 11:22

Fagear wrote:3) Maybe I can retrace board for some already manufactured bracket, for example, take Creative CT4170 or any low-end ESS AudioDrive. Replace output RCA with 3,5" mini-jack, use second one for SID "Audio In" (theoretically can be useful) and leave third unused.

What do you think?


I think it's a great idea to retrace a board for a very common and cheap card so we can use the brackets. Replacing the RCA with 3.5 mini jack makes sense if one wants to recycle brackets from other cards. Excellent idea.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby keropi » 2014-8-26 @ 12:47

The 3.5mm audio out jack seems a nice idea to me as well.
Also "blank" bracket is fine by me, a hole is easy to make... I also don't think many will use the joystick port tbh , this card will most likely go along another in a system so it's not really a problem , personally on the 2 kits that I'll take I won't even solder the joyport :evil:
And the pcb is clear to me, I don't think more info is needed
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby shock__ » 2014-8-26 @ 14:23

Fagear wrote:I have one more question: are new silkscreen tips clear? Is everything easy to understand? I think with such silkscreen you don't need any manual with the kit. :lol:
Pretty much agree there with the manual part. Except for the inductance/coil L every value for the parts seems to be represented nicely (I'd guess that one is 100uH, right?).
I just have to admit I prefer the previous orientation for the Joystick/frequency silkscreen, having it close to the jumpers rather than pointing arrows.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby vetz » 2014-8-26 @ 14:36

carlostex wrote:The more of us interested the cheaper these boards will be right?

That's right.
Currently I have "pre-orders" for 8 boards.


Maybe Keropi as moderator over at Amibay could see if there is any interest over there?
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby Fagear » 2014-8-26 @ 16:34

shock__ wrote:Except for the inductance/coil L every value for the parts seems to be represented nicely (I'd guess that one is 100uH, right?).

Well, that's experimental. I've noticed that replica picks up some noise from starting hard drive, tried to eliminate it with fer-bead, but had no luck. Maybe I'll try some more "serious". In other boards there is only jumper link.

shock__ wrote:I just have to admit I prefer the previous orientation for the Joystick/frequency silkscreen, having it close to the jumpers rather than pointing arrows.

Maybe yes, but I had to add one more jumper and there were no place for clock jumpers above HC192 anymore. I had to move them below HC192. And added two resistors for them (to use 2-pin headers instead of 3-pin). So... yeah. Had to move silkscreen somewhere else.
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby keropi » 2014-8-26 @ 17:23

vetz wrote:
carlostex wrote:The more of us interested the cheaper these boards will be right?

That's right.
Currently I have "pre-orders" for 8 boards.


Maybe Keropi as moderator over at Amibay could see if there is any interest over there?


great idea but I think Fagear should have the honors posting that.
@Fagear:
if you are interested on posting this on AmiBay go ahead, I'll activate/approve your account/posts manually and you won't have to make a bunch of hem to bypass the forum's spam protection :)
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Re: Innovation SSI 2001 re-engineering and/or conclusions

Postby PeterLI » 2014-8-26 @ 17:55

Congratulations! This has been a really cool project. BTW: Vintage Computer Forum / DOSForum.de / CPU World / Classic-Computing.org / Quest Studios may also have people who could be interested. Good luck! :)
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