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Reply 620 of 666, by KainXVIII

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James-F wrote on 2016-09-07, 14:13:
Here is a comparison of the hardware SC-55 and SC-VA in SC-55 Map. […]
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Here is a comparison of the hardware SC-55 and SC-VA in SC-55 Map.

Doom
From 00:09 you can hear a muted Crash Cymbal on the hardware SC-55 (as the composer intended), but on SC-VA it is not muted but freely ringing and has a different sound.
From 00:42 there is a Ride Cymbal which sounds completely different on SC-VA, and the same un-muted crash afterwards.

Duke3D
Immediately 00:00 you can hear the different Ride Cymbal sound like on the doom track on 00:42.
A completely different Kick Drum sound.

These different sounds appeared on the SC-88 and replaced the SC-55 sounds even in SC-55 Map on the real hardware.
You can actually acknowledge this fact by going to this wonderful site and listening by yourself:
http://www.wavetable.nl/?cat=4

Doom - E1M1 [Roland SC-8820_55MAP].mp3, You can hear that the SC-8820 mutes the Crash Cymbal but SC-VA don't (they didn't emulate the control rom properly),
also the Ride Cymbal at 00:44 is not like on the real SC-55 hardware which proves Roland completely replaced some sounds in SC-88 and up.
Doom - E1M1 [Roland SC-8820_88MAP].mp3, The Crash Cymbal doesn't mute because it is not on SC-55 Map, and obviously different ride cymbal sound.
Duke Nukem 3D - Intro [Roland SC-8820_55MAP].mp3, Same as the SC-VA, the drum sounds are different.

This is a small example but there are more sounds that differ on the later models in SC-55 Map from a real SC-55.
This should make obvious that not even the later hardware models can sound like the SC-55.
So to conclude once again, if you want an authentic SC-55 experience which a lot of DOS games are composed on, find a good SC-55 on Ebay, buy it and keep it.
But anything from SC-88 and up, I believe is perfectly emulated on SC-VA since the developers based it on the 8820 which has the same control rom as the 88 and 88Pro.

Great post, i only noticed cymbals sound difference now 🤣.
Is there fix from Roland for proper SC-55 "muted" cymbals and other instruments? Or maybe a fan fix?

Reply 621 of 666, by Trelokk

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So, I have also tried to get this working and couldn't until now.

System: Win10 x64 21H2
Installed: Sound Canvas VA v1.1.3, loopMIDI v1.0.16.27, SAVIHost v1.43 (savihostnkx64.zip)

What I have done:
- Made sure latest Visual C++ 2008 Redist is installed
- loopMIDI: Set up a new port, running in background
- SAVIHost: Copied it into C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA (where SOUND Canvas VA.dll resides) and renamed it to SOUND Canvas VA.exe

When trying to launch SOUND Canvas VA.exe afterwards, I just get an 'Error loading "C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA\Sound Canvas VA.exe". Please make sure that you renamed SAVIHost.exe to the name of the plugin DLL you're trying to use [...]'. Before that, I got the "side-by-side configuration is incorrect" error, but somehow I made that stop.

Any ideas how to get that stuff launched properly or is there another way?

Reply 622 of 666, by Falcosoft

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-03, 14:34:
So, I have also tried to get this working and couldn't until now. […]
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So, I have also tried to get this working and couldn't until now.

System: Win10 x64 21H2
Installed: Sound Canvas VA v1.1.3, loopMIDI v1.0.16.27, SAVIHost v1.43 (savihostnkx64.zip)

What I have done:
- Made sure latest Visual C++ 2008 Redist is installed
- loopMIDI: Set up a new port, running in background
- SAVIHost: Copied it into C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA (where SOUND Canvas VA.dll resides) and renamed it to SOUND Canvas VA.exe

When trying to launch SOUND Canvas VA.exe afterwards, I just get an 'Error loading "C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA\Sound Canvas VA.exe". Please make sure that you renamed SAVIHost.exe to the name of the plugin DLL you're trying to use [...]'. Before that, I got the "side-by-side configuration is incorrect" error, but somehow I made that stop.

Any ideas how to get that stuff launched properly or is there another way?

What happens if you try to load it with FSMP x64?
http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzZhhLXG0kk

BTW, the original 'offline' SC-VA had a dependency on msvcr100.dll (Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable). I seriously doubt that the newer cloud version downgraded to Visual C++ 2008...
Where did you get this info from?

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Reply 623 of 666, by Trelokk

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Well, it was because SAVIHost requires Visual 2008, unless that info is wrong or deprecated. What the plugin requires I don't know, TBH. Would you need C++ 2010 as well, then? To me it looked more like an issue with SAVIHost since I couldn't get that one working at all.

Just to get it right: loopMIDI is needed for sure, but then you can choose between SAVIHost or FSMP (for example) to load the DLL?

When I try to load the VSTi via FSMP, I get an error that says "VSTi plugin cannot be loaded! Make sure you selected a valid 64 bit VSTi plugin". And after clicking on "OK", I get "Error playing Bass channel. Error code: 5".
I am using FSMP x64 obviously, and the plugin should be 64-bit only in v1.1.3, so...

It's not a problem this the DLL is located in C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA, right? That's where all the files seem to be, anyway.

Reply 624 of 666, by Falcosoft

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-03, 16:07:
Well, it was because SAVIHost requires Visual 2008, unless that info is wrong or deprecated. What the plugin requires I don't kn […]
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Well, it was because SAVIHost requires Visual 2008, unless that info is wrong or deprecated. What the plugin requires I don't know, TBH. Would you need C++ 2010 as well, then? To me it looked more like an issue with SAVIHost since I couldn't get that one working at all.

Just to get it right: loopMIDI is needed for sure, but then you can choose between SAVIHost or FSMP (for example) to load the DLL?

When I try to load the VSTi via FSMP, I get an error that says "VSTi plugin cannot be loaded! Make sure you selected a valid 64 bit VSTi plugin". And after clicking on "OK", I get "Error playing Bass channel. Error code: 5".
I am using FSMP x64 obviously, and the plugin should be 64-bit only in v1.1.3, so...

It's not a problem this the DLL is located in C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA, right? That's where all the files seem to be, anyway.

That error message definitely means that it's not a valid 64-bit VSTi library (or it's not in a valid state) that can be loaded.
1. It's either not a 64-bit library or not a VSTi library at all (corrupted, not the main one that should be loaded etc.) What other dll files can be found in the same library?
2. It has an external dependency that cannot be currently found on your system and without it the library cannot be loaded. You can try dependency walker to examine what is needed.

The directory location itself is not a problem.

BTW the original offline trial version (includes both x86 and x64 versions of the plugin) can still be downloaded from Roland:
http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/zip/scva_win_trial.zip
It is known that it depends on Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 runtime dlls (but I think they are installed together with the plugin). You can use it as a test to verify what is working and what is not on your system.

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Reply 625 of 666, by realnc

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-03, 16:07:

It's not a problem this the DLL is located in C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA, right? That's where all the files seem to be, anyway.

I think it's in "C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins". The other DLL is like a loader for the real one.

Reply 626 of 666, by Trelokk

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There is a Steinberg directory, and it also has the DLL in it, but it's only 3 KB in size or something. It's the only file there, too. That can't be it.

In the other dir (C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA), there are two DLLs: The actual "SOUND Canvas VA.dll" and an SCCore.dll, besides some other files starting with GM/GM2, then a few parameter files, SCVSC.*... Pretty sure that's the main dir. Are these files encrypted or something?

I'll try that Dependency Walker thing tomorrow and see where it gets me. Next step would be to check whether that trial version works better (even if deprecated). It can't be rocket science to get this thing working, right? I mean OK, the S-YXG50 is hard to beat regarding that, but still...

Reply 627 of 666, by Falcosoft

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-03, 22:02:

There is a Steinberg directory, and it also has the DLL in it, but it's only 3 KB in size or something. It's the only file there, too. That can't be it.

In the other dir (C:\ProgramData\Roland Cloud\Sound Canvas VA), there are two DLLs: The actual "SOUND Canvas VA.dll" and an SCCore.dll, besides some other files starting with GM/GM2, then a few parameter files, SCVSC.*... Pretty sure that's the main dir. Are these files encrypted or something?

I'll try that Dependency Walker thing tomorrow and see where it gets me. Next step would be to check whether that trial version works better (even if deprecated). It can't be rocket science to get this thing working, right? I mean OK, the S-YXG50 is hard to beat regarding that, but still...

Just try what Realnc suggested. Even if it's only 3kb it can be the right entry point. Maybe it's only a VST shell/wrapper but this contains the necessary VST exports and the real implementation is in the bigger dll but it cannot be loaded directly.
BTW the trial/test version is simpler in this sense since both the x86 and x64 version is called SOUND Canvas VA.dll and they can be found at 'C:\Program Files(x86)\Roland\Sound Canvas VA' and 'C:\Program Files\Roland\Sound Canvas VA' respectively.

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Reply 628 of 666, by realnc

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-03, 22:02:

There is a Steinberg directory, and it also has the DLL in it, but it's only 3 KB in size or something. It's the only file there, too. That can't be it.

Hm. I just checked and that's what I load. It's a 3kb dll, and I load it in Falco's MidiPlayer:

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Reply 629 of 666, by Trelokk

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Well, loading the 3KB file didn't do the trick for me, either, so I will have to keep investigating.

But yeah, when checking the DLL with Dependency Walker, I get quite a few errors about missing dependencies. Just need to figure out which:
"Error: At least one required implicit or forwarded dependency was not found.
Warning: At least one delay-load dependency module was not found.
Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module."

Attached is a screen of a small part of the errors I see. Currently I only have installed an all-in-one package of the Visual C++ 2015-2022 redistributables.

In the meantime, I tried installing that trial version linked above. Well, what can I say, the 64-bit version works, just like that. I am loading the big 28 MB DLL from the "Program Files" folder and no problems at all. And yes, it installs the C++ 2010 redistributables.

TBH I dunno what kinda installer they gave me here, it's merely 25 MB while the one from the trial is almost 100. Looks to me as if there was quite some stuff missing? For sure it's missing the C++ redistributables since those won't be installed along with it at all. And it doesn't work with the C++ 2010 redistributables, neither x86 nor x64. It doesn't even come with any Roland Cloud installation whatsoever, which is alarming. My suspicion by now is that I actually bought a non-functional/incomplete version. The price was too good to be true in the first place, anyway (10 bucks, 🤣 - should have known better, but I guess I hoped to be lucky). Time to ask my money back on Paypal for this pathetic scam, I guess.

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Reply 630 of 666, by RetroGamer4Ever

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You definitely bought a third-party hacked version of the software. This has been a recurring problem in the past several years, as the foreign criminal networks are now breaking software open, loading it with malware/hacks, and then distributing it as legit pay-ware, using PayPal and other money transaction services to do their business.

Reply 631 of 666, by Trelokk

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Don't buy anything from shopvst.com, that's all I can say. And check any website with suspiciously cheap offers on Trustpilot first. Like I SHOULD have done. Especially after ALREADY falling for a similar scam with a rare DAC elsewhere...

Well, I guess in my case I will still be kinda "lucky" since Paypal will do refunds plus that piece of sh*t they sold there apparently didn't contain malware - as far as I can tell.

Reply 632 of 666, by RetroGamer4Ever

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According to what I just dug up on the music forums, they sell cracked software - usually outdated versions - loaded with malware, specifically crypto-mining jacks, so you should give your machine a thorough cleansing with security software and preferably wipe it and re-install everything.

Reply 634 of 666, by RetroGamer4Ever

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The S-YXG50 VSTi is the gold standard for us all, at the moment and I am happy to use it as my default MIDI device. I only wish we could get the S-YXG100 PVL opened up like that, so that we could see what XG can really do!

Reply 635 of 666, by Trelokk

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I still have the two Edirol VSC-MP1 and HyperCanvas plugins as fallback options, but I think they are both inferior to the Yamaha module. Besides the fact that at least the HyperCanvas isn't portable.

Reply 637 of 666, by Trelokk

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Well, I dunno... mine wouldn't start without having some registry keys in place, e.g. for "BaseDataFile" or "HelpIndex" entries. Without those, "Sound Canvas.dll" (6 MB) won't be loaded. There's also a file called "param.dat" (13.5 MB) which seems to be important.

If anybody knows how to change that behavior, it'd be great. Anything is better than all that bloat coming with the Roland Cloud software.

But I also gotta say: Compared with the S-YXG50, both Edirol VSTis sound as if an elephant farted into a bucket...

Reply 638 of 666, by Trelokk

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Double post alert, mods beware! 😜

So now I have downloaded the OFFICIAL version of the plugin through the Roland Cloud. Remaining questions:
1) Roland Cloud will have to remain installed for as long as you want to use the SoundCanvas VA? (If I understand correctly, it's needed for "occasional" authentication checks of the plugin.)
2) After the trial membership of 1 month has expired (which you have to cancel actively, otherwise it continues and will cost), I guess the SCVA will no longer be available for free and a Lifetime Key has to be purchased?

If it's really like that, the S-YXG50 has clear advantages due to its portability (besides the fact it has good sound and is available for free). On the plus side, latest SCVA seems to work with the new VSTDriver without the need of LoopMIDI or anything else (besides the Roland Cloud software, that is).

Side note: The guy from shopvst.com really had the balls to reply to my complaint email, claiming that what he is selling on that website is the "complete version". Complete my a$$. Hoping for Paypal to work their refund magic once again here. And another memo @ self, hopefully it will sink in this time: If it's too cheap, it's not real...

Reply 639 of 666, by Falcosoft

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Trelokk wrote on 2022-02-07, 14:28:
Double post alert, mods beware! :P […]
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Double post alert, mods beware! 😜

So now I have downloaded the OFFICIAL version of the plugin through the Roland Cloud. Remaining questions:
1) Roland Cloud will have to remain installed for as long as you want to use the SoundCanvas VA? (If I understand correctly, it's needed for "occasional" authentication checks of the plugin.)
2) After the trial membership of 1 month has expired (which you have to cancel actively, otherwise it continues and will cost), I guess the SCVA will no longer be available for free and a Lifetime Key has to be purchased?

If it's really like that, the S-YXG50 has clear advantages due to its portability (besides the fact it has good sound and is available for free). On the plus side, latest SCVA seems to work with the new VSTDriver without the need of LoopMIDI or anything else (besides the Roland Cloud software, that is).

Side note: The guy from shopvst.com really had the balls to reply to my complaint email, claiming that what he is selling on that website is the "complete version". Complete my a$$. Hoping for Paypal to work their refund magic once again here. And another memo @ self, hopefully it will sink in this time: If it's too cheap, it's not real...

1. Yes, you need to buy it after all. The demo version can be used in "portable mode" for 10 minute periods .Just save the content of "C:\Program Files (x86)\Roland\Sound Canvas VA"folder. Then you should uninstall the demo and remove other Roland related folders. Copy your saved folder anywhere and then you can use SC-VA in infinite trial mode.
2. Yes, S-YXG50 is much simpler to use, and more versatile. It even has TG300B mode (which is a full GS implementation) that has GS variation tones together with MT-32 compatibility bank and drum set. It sounds good but it just simply does not sound as a Roland Sound Canvas. At all 😀

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