Can it will be used as consumer soundcard, usable in games?

easy_john wrote on 2021-03-13, 09:29:

Can it will be used as consumer soundcard, usable in games?

Hello, I don't think this soundcard is usable for DOS/Win gaming, since the DSP processor core is only accessible through Motorola assembler instructions and the required MicroEditor sw lic would cost 250USD. (There was a later PCI bus card called MTU Krystal, with a more powerful DSP, but the vendor had a feud with Motorola, eventually exiting the DAW market and works on karaoke hw/sw instead.)

Furthermore this DAW system cost 7500 to 13k USD complete in an industrial PC rack format, so a bit expensive for gaming:
https://rapmag.com/a/288-94/oct94/1183-test-d … dio-workstation

BR, Tamas Feher.

not everything that is rare is also useful ^^

imi wrote on 2021-03-13, 13:01:

not everything that is rare is also useful ^^

Yeah, there seems to be a lot of interesting looking hardware out there that has basically no use anymore because it's purpose no longer has any practical or nostalgic value. Even the most obscure devices with proprietary software and interfaces can be made useful if they have some application to gaming. But without that, these types of things tend to just end up in lots on ebay as "telecom scrap" or something similar, regardless of what they are.

When trying to tell if an unknown sound device is of any interest for retro-computing, the first sign that it isn't is the presence of unusual connectors on the back. There are a few, but not many, sound cards of interest to VOGONs users that have 1/4" jacks, XLR or proprietary multi-pin interfaces. The majority are going to be obsolete with almost no functional use these days unless someone enjoys producing '90s quality material with strictly '90s methods. If all it does is run X program from 1996, which has been outclassed 10 times over by newer software\hardware, it's hard to assign much value beyond the fact that it looks cool... which, that device certainly does! It's too bad it isn't useful for gaming.

unless you really want to build a retro DAW ^^

imi wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:05:

unless you really want to build a retro DAW ^^

Or use one as a digital mixer . 😉

It's actually quite ironic that older hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders that include digital mixer functionality are actually often less expensive than dedicated digital mixer of the same or older vintage. At least that has been my impression recently. Assuming I am right in this assessment, have not just coincidentally seen some outliers and consequently gotten a false impression, I bet someone will eventually make a YT video pointing this out which will make prices rise .

imi wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:05:

unless you really want to build a retro DAW ^^

I agree. That's what I meant by. "The majority are going to be obsolete with almost no functional use these days unless someone enjoys producing '90s quality material with strictly '90s methods. "

There are certainly those that are into that kind of thing, but I don't think the average user here is. I'm sure if I was more into music production I'd dabble in it as well, but I have a feeling that you get diminishing returns with retro recording\mixing hardware even faster than with retro gaming hardware. Meaning, it's probably not hard to find something newer that does a better job with no noticeable impact on the experience of producing the music. The actual synths\samplers and software are likely the only things that really change the experience much. For those that are highly trained\experienced with a certain setup though, that obviously changes everything. To them, these devices are irreplaceable.

darry wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:35:

Or use one as a digital mixer . 😉

It's actually quite ironic that older hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders that include digital mixer functionality are actually often less expensive than dedicated digital mixer of the same or older vintage. At least that has been my impression recently. Assuming I am right in this assessment, have not just coincidentally seen some outliers and consequently gotten a false impression, I bet someone will eventually make a YT video pointing this out which will make prices rise .

that's because hardware mixers (digital or analog) main selling point are physical control elements for most important functions ^^

but yeah I thought about using an array of 4x EWS88T (4x8in/out) cards for that before I got my hands on a 16 channel stereo mixer (effectively 32 channels, same as 4xEWS88)

darry wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:35:

imi wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:05:

unless you really want to build a retro DAW ^^

Or use one as a digital mixer . 😉

It's actually quite ironic that older hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders that include digital mixer functionality are actually often less expensive than dedicated digital mixer of the same or older vintage. At least that has been my impression recently. Assuming I am right in this assessment, have not just coincidentally seen some outliers and consequently gotten a false impression, I bet someone will eventually make a YT video pointing this out which will make prices rise .

On top of what has already been said, most hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders have serious limitations with regards to their internal storage mediums (IDE or SCSI hard disks, often low maximum size limits), quality of their hardware (many are aimed at the prosumer market), and current computer hardware and OS support (serial connections, USB connections with a driver that does not work on anything higher than Windows 98 or 2000 or MacOS 9.x, etc.).
Granted, samplers often also have those same limitations, but many of the more popular ones have a very specific sound that is sought after (Akai S-series comes to mind).
Also, I am not sure the lower prices apply to the really sought after units such as the Roland MV-8x00 series, Yamaha RS7000, etc.

Dedicated mixers often have higher quality hardware and indeed a more hands-on approach to control, and offer a larger number of channels. Vintage professional mixing consoles can run in the thousands.

Hello,
If you say vintage hardware need to be useful for playing old games to stay relevant, here is an AdLib-compatible "Digicoder Plus" card which can also record and be used for speech processing through SDK docs. BR: Tamas Feher, Hungary.
(P.s.: How I wish this card had 9 less serial number...)

yawetaG wrote on 2021-03-14, 18:15:

On top of what has already been said, most hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders have serious limitations with re […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:35:

imi wrote on 2021-03-14, 00:05:

unless you really want to build a retro DAW ^^

Or use one as a digital mixer . 😉

It's actually quite ironic that older hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders that include digital mixer functionality are actually often less expensive than dedicated digital mixer of the same or older vintage. At least that has been my impression recently. Assuming I am right in this assessment, have not just coincidentally seen some outliers and consequently gotten a false impression, I bet someone will eventually make a YT video pointing this out which will make prices rise .

On top of what has already been said, most hardware-based DAWs and multitrack digital recorders have serious limitations with regards to their internal storage mediums (IDE or SCSI hard disks, often low maximum size limits), quality of their hardware (many are aimed at the prosumer market), and current computer hardware and OS support (serial connections, USB connections with a driver that does not work on anything higher than Windows 98 or 2000 or MacOS 9.x, etc.).
Granted, samplers often also have those same limitations, but many of the more popular ones have a very specific sound that is sought after (Akai S-series comes to mind).
Also, I am not sure the lower prices apply to the really sought after units such as the Roland MV-8x00 series, Yamaha RS7000, etc.

Dedicated mixers often have higher quality hardware and indeed a more hands-on approach to control, and offer a larger number of channels. Vintage professional mixing consoles can run in the thousands.

Thank you, these are all very good points .

I am looking at this through the eyes of someone wanting an affordable digital mixer (TBH, mixing could take place in the analogue domain, but I would want at least one stereo ADC to feed an S/PDIF output that can be split or switched and routed to multiple destinations, like a recording PC, an AV receiver, etc) for decidedly non pro use (using retro PC sound cards). If anybody has any doubts, I am quite the newb in these matters . My perspective came from considering something like the 230 CAN$ Yamaha AW4416 I found versus even the cheapest comparable (timeframe-wise) digital mixer units from this list http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php/ … 57.html#msg6657 , as an example (an O2R goes for nearly 1000 CAN$ typically and an AW4416 is about half that). I have practically zero interest in actually using any recording functionality integrated into a hardware DAW .

I realize that, while my approach may not be optimal, I would doubt that I am really making that bad of a choice going with 20-year old semi-pro gear (IMHO, unless an AW4416 and MY8/AD24 are not worthy of being called the semi-pro) with the features that I want for
200-300 CAN$ versus cascading a few entry-level analogue mixers at double that price range will not getting an S/PDIF output .

If someone is seriously into audio production, I would imagine that carefully choice of pre-amps, microphones, DI boxes , high-end outboard ADC solutions, etc , all of which are well beyond my skillset and paygrade, matter .

From my use-case perspective (and I imagine that I am not alone in trying similar thing) and considering the relatively low end devices I will be feeding a mixer with anyway, any dated (20-year old) but still working semi-pro or better gear will likely nearly always be overkill and if I can get overkill at bargain basement prices (versus more expensive new entry-level stuff) , why shouldn't I ?

I apologize if I am doing or saying things that seem dumb to people knowledgeable in audio production. As always, please feel free to correct me in my illusions/misconceptions .

Not sure if this conversation about DAWs and mixers is relevant to the "List of rarest PC soundcards". Maybe continue that conversation in a new thread?

- Amstrad Adlib Clone

Some rare combo cards:
- Chromatic Mpact Jabil
- Most of the ASUS Media Bus cards

One for the list I guess, the Melco/Buffalo SRI-PJ:

https://web.archive.org/web/19970715012613/ht … lti/sri-pj.html

Very interesting. Seems a classic SoundChip for opl3 clones. One site stated that his chip also indicated WSS compatibility.

Saw these on ebay a while ago.
"Music Synthesizer II" Adlib clone with PC speaker input and output and presumably two output jacks

"Music Wonder" Adlib clone with similar PC speaker input and output, and a line input?

I think this card is rare, but I digress (bought today for a good price):

FCC ID: JDF-SOUNDMEDIA001

Sony CDU-31A interface
YMF-262M + YMZ-263-F
15-pin d-sub joystick/MIDI port (odd to see that, but cool looking)
Volume potentiometer
Has the audio cable and the joystick/MIDI d-sub 15 adapter

Seller's photos:

I still need to replace the POT on mine. Did yours come with original disks?

Sadly, no and not even a manual.

I even attempted to access the files from here: Adlib Gold clone - 2THEMAX SoundMedia Multimedia Board? (tinyupload) and the site has been dead since last year.