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SB Pro emulation freezes in some ISA cards on faster machines.

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First post, by tpowell.ca

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Hi guys.
I'm not sure if its just bad luck but right now I'm trying to build a comparison thread for various soundcards ability to emulate different aspects of the Sound Blaster Pro 2.0.
I thought it was a specific issue with Yamaha cards but further testing shows that it happens with most cards I tried.

My test systems are

  • Soyo SY-6BA+III with a PIII-733 (Intel BX chipset)
  • Gigabyte GA-6BXC with a C3 1.0GHz Nehemiah (Intel BX chipset)

Cards that freeze:

  • Yamaha YMF701
  • Yamaha YMF719E
  • Cystal CX4237

Ressources are always set to 0x220 / IRQ7 / DMA1
None are being shared, and are reserved in the BIOS for non-pnp ISA cards.

To be tested:

  • Creative SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 CT1600
  • Crystal CS4235 (the broken one)
  • ESS AudioDrive ES1869F

Software that causes freezes (found so far):

  • Duke Nukem 2 (to test ADPCM compatibility)
  • Cubic Player 1.7 and 2.xß in SoundBlaster Pro mode (WSS doesn't freeze)
  • Future Crew's Assembly '94 Intro

If I slow down the PC to low Pentium speeds, the freezing takes longer (from seconds to under a minute) or doesn't freeze at all.
In Windows 98, the cards never freeze.

Has anyone seen similar issues with their soundcards on faster computers (<1GHz) ?

Last edited by tpowell.ca on 2019-01-18, 18:42. Edited 7 times in total.
  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
    Tesla: GA-6BXC, VIA C3 Ezra-T, 256MB, 120GB SATA, YMF744, GUSpnp, Quadro2
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, Voodoo3

Reply 1 of 6, by Tiido

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I haven't experienced any such stuff with the YMF71x cards, though I have had issues with VIA chipsets but only when using DMA0 and then it is just no sound at all rather than something else. Maybe you can try with SETYMF and see if it makes a difference, you can find it here : http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 2 of 6, by tpowell.ca

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Tiido wrote:

I haven't experienced any such stuff with the YMF71x cards, though I have had issues with VIA chipsets but only when using DMA0 and then it is just no sound at all rather than something else. Maybe you can try with SETYMF and see if it makes a difference, you can find it here : http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC

Thanks Tiido. I'll try SETYMF when I get home from work.

Btw, I also noticed a problem in Windows 98 with DirectSound. Maybe its just the version of the Yamaha drivers I'm using or some other glitch but I was getting a terrible S/N using DirectSound in any software. If I switch to using Waveout, no such issues.
I'll confirm the DirectX version and Yamaha drivers installed. This is especially noticeable with a good quality source like a FLAC played back through Winamp, or even using RightMark's audio analyser.

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
    Tesla: GA-6BXC, VIA C3 Ezra-T, 256MB, 120GB SATA, YMF744, GUSpnp, Quadro2
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, Voodoo3

Reply 3 of 6, by Tiido

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You can get the latest drivers from my site also, I have only used those and never got any problems with DirectSound or WaveOut in any programs I have used. It would be interesting to hear the sound you get, bad SNR I think of hiss and not any buzzes and whatnot which can indicate buffer underruns issue.
The driver version on the CDs that sometimes come with the YMF71x cards are defnitely old and may not even have Dsound capability, thus issues can be possible.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 4 of 6, by tpowell.ca

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Tiido wrote:

You can get the latest drivers from my site also, I have only used those and never got any problems with DirectSound or WaveOut in any programs I have used. It would be interesting to hear the sound you get, bad SNR I think of hiss and not any buzzes and whatnot which can indicate buffer underruns issue.
The driver version on the CDs that sometimes come with the YMF71x cards are defnitely old and may not even have Dsound capability, thus issues can be possible.

I used the latest drivers from Phil's Computer Lab, not the WDM drivers.

95v2343.exe
Win 95/98 v. 4.06.2343 (DirectX6.0 Certified) w/ "Restart in MS-DOS" mode support

I'll get you an audio sample and a comparison showing the difference between DS and waveout that I see.
Although I don't think its a buffer underrun or dropouts. Keep in mind. I'm playing an MP3 or FLAC on a PIII-733MHz (not 500 as I thought).

  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
    Tesla: GA-6BXC, VIA C3 Ezra-T, 256MB, 120GB SATA, YMF744, GUSpnp, Quadro2
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, Voodoo3

Reply 5 of 6, by tpowell.ca

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As you can see from the attached picture, the frequency spectrum inexplicably narrows when using DirectSound under certain circumstances.

Spectrum (YMF719 WM vs DS broken)_.png
Filename
Spectrum (YMF719 WM vs DS broken)_.png
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12.08 KiB
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361 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

I have also attached a recording that clearly shows the problem.
One thing I did notice however; this only happens if not using the primary sound buffer.
Sorry for the choice of music, but I needed something with good dynamics. 😵

Attachments

  • Filename
    Example (WM good).ogg
    File size
    866.01 KiB
    Downloads
    32 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    Example (DS broken).ogg
    File size
    990.35 KiB
    Downloads
    38 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Merlin: MS-4144, AMD5x86-160 32MB, 16GB CF, ZIP100, Orpheus, GUS, S3 VirgeGX 2MB
    Tesla: GA-6BXC, VIA C3 Ezra-T, 256MB, 120GB SATA, YMF744, GUSpnp, Quadro2
    Newton: K6XV3+/66, AMD K6-III+500, 256MB, 32GB SSD, AWE32, Voodoo3

Reply 6 of 6, by Tiido

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Ok, seems it is 8bit 22KHz in Dsound for whatever reason. That's definitely some sort of driver related problem. Actually I now remember that in Winamp I had to use secondary buffer or some related option when using Dsound for proper output. I never had issues in games though.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

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