VOGONS


Reply 20 of 24, by dionb

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dionb wrote:
Cga.8086 wrote:

[...]

But i think PAS16 would sound different compared to a SB16. some tones must not be the same (thats what i think, maybe im wrong)

Afraid you're wrong. It's just a difference in filtering and potentially (but rarely actually) effects such as the surround3d.

Maybe I was wrong after all. I've been messing around trying to get my 5 sound card build working (failing so far because of conflicts between an Aztech NX Pro and my PAS16), but as part of that have been extensively listening to the output of the cards in different applications. Maybe it is just filtering, but on games where someone really made an effort to get the best out of the sound, there is a clear and audiable difference between PAS16 and SB16. In particular OMF2097 (already famous for showcasing the GUS - which is why I was running it) really lets the PAS16 shine. I tried it vs several SB16s, including the CT2910 - with real OPL3 and generally regarded as being one of the best in terms of sound quality - but it really isn't a fair match. The PAS16 just blows away the SB16. Given this experience I'd recommend OMF2097 for this sort of comparison, as it's also one of the few that clearly shows difference between SBPro2 and SB16. Note that it is mod-based, so doesn't do FM synthesis at all, just digital audio - this is one case where OPL vs CQM shouldn't matter.

Reply 21 of 24, by Intel486dx33

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How does this MV-PAS16 work with memory ?
Are the drivers okay ?
Do these drivers eat up memory or cause any memory problem in a 486 with FPM or EDO ram ?

Reply 22 of 24, by Jo22

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Cga.8086 wrote:

hey PAS16 was my first soundcard. I even remember where we bought it in Miami. It came in a kit with a sony 1x cdrom but i was so young that its impossible to remember which of all PAS models i got back in the day.

Cool, you, too ? Did the drive look like this : Re: What type of CD drive is this? ? 😀

dionb wrote:
Maybe I was wrong after all. I've been messing around trying to get my 5 sound card build working (failing so far because of con […]
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Maybe I was wrong after all. I've been messing around trying to get my 5 sound card build working (failing so far because of conflicts between an
Aztech NX Pro and my PAS16), but as part of that have been extensively listening to the output of the cards in different applications. Maybe it is just filtering, but on games
where someone really made an effort to get the best out of the sound, there is a clear and audiable difference between PAS16 and SB16. In particular OMF2097 (already
famous for showcasing the GUS - which is why I was running it) really lets the PAS16 shine. I tried it vs several SB16s, including the CT2910 - with real OPL3 and generally
regarded as being one of the best in terms of sound quality - but it really isn't a fair match. The PAS16 just blows away the SB16. Given this experience I'd recommend OMF2097
for this sort of comparison, as it's also one of the few that clearly shows difference between SBPro2 and SB16. Note that it is mod-based, so doesn't do FM synthesis at all, just
digital audio - this is one case where OPL vs CQM shouldn't matter.

Cool, thanks for the tip! 😎 Yes, the PAS16 had a quite good ADC/DAC for its time. The original SB16 could *only* do 12-Bit resolution,
I remember, even though it could handle 16-Bit information internally. Perhaps that's why the CT17xx line was so heavily filtered ? 😉
Also, the PAS16 had a proper MIC in that worked with dynamic mircophones.

Edit: According to the datasheet of one of the ADC/DAC parts that was used in early SB16 models, the resolution was 16-bit.
Not sure, however, if that datasheet is thrustworthy. It surely is not the first time that a company might spread false information. 😉

Speaking of the GUS, some other game, Crusader No Remorse, also shine on non-GUS cards. Namly the SB16 and SoundScape.
I made a recording way down in a GUS thread, since the music is so damn haunting.. See Re: Games that sound best with GUS? .

Intel486dx33 wrote:

How does this MV-PAS16 work with memory ? Are the drivers okay ?
Do these drivers eat up memory or cause any memory problem in a 486 with FPM or EDO ram ?

Hi, I've had had a PAS16 installed in several PCs 286, 386, 486, Pentium 75. Pentium 133.. The only trouble I encountered was a conflict with EMM386 on a Pentium 133.
Disabling L1 cache and removing EMM386 solved all issues. In another experiment, I even managed to install both a PAS16 and a SB16 in a PC.
There only was a minor annoyance: PAS16 did use port 388h (AdLib's port) as its control port, not 220h like the Sound Blaster did.
During boot, that caused a noisy sound comming out of the SB16's OPL3 chip, since it lacks the additional circuitry which the PAS16 has to prevent this.
Loading the diagnostic program each time (SB16 ?) solved this, however. MVSound (TSR) is the main driver for the PAS16.
It's used for initalization and it is used as a kind of API. It doesn't take up much memory, though.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 23 of 24, by Tenorman

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Jo22 wrote:

The only "troublesome" cards were those made by Logitech (Logitech SoundMan-16),
but even here it only was a minor software issue (PAS16 driver refused to work on OEM models, the SoundMan driver worked fine).

I'm curious what drivers you used and how you installed them. I used a SoundMan-16 with the MediaVision 3.24 drivers for a long time without any problems. If I remember correctly though, I started with the Logitech drivers and just copied the updated files over the old installation rather than running the install program, so that could be the difference.

badmojo wrote:

I had a Jazz16 go up in smoke, but that was no great loss 😀

This happened to me as well. Gateway 16MVCARD. Must be a semi-common problem.
No this card isn't anything special, but it doesn't seem to have any major issues either, and there is something to be said for that.

I have recordings of both these cards, if anyone is interested:
http://tenorman.info/pc/pas16ll
http://tenorman.info/pc/gateway16mvcard

[Compaq Presario 633 | DOS 6.22 / Win 3.1 | DX4 100 Overdrive | 28M RAM | SB16 CT2770A | SPEA Media FX (Soundscape S2000) ]
[GA-6BXC R2.0 | Win98SE | Via C3 Ezra 866 | 384M RAM | TNT2 32M | Voodoo2 8M | SB32 CT3670 | Ensoniq Soundscape Opus]

Reply 24 of 24, by Horun

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Thanks for all the good info and sorry to bring up an old topic. Found my old PAS 8bit card a few weeks ago and have been digging for anything on it. Is a 650-0002-01 8bit card, and have not yet tried it after it sat for years in a box fearing some of the tantalum caps might explode. Was hoping to find some pictures of the original PAS box but no luck so far, did find this article from 1991 in google books comparing PAS original and SB Pro CT1330A.

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Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.