VOGONS


Reply 80 of 507, by canthearu

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If it is a SB32, which is a AWE32/64 style product from Creative.

These cards typically use CQM rather than OPL3 for FM, which is more resistant to system speed related issues, but doesn't sound as good in many games.

The gold standard would be to load the AZT2320 card's original DOS support, and compare it to the DOS support offered by unisound after turning the computer on and off again.

If the distortion occurs on both the original DOS drivers, and unisound, then it is a hardware/system speed problem and you won't be able to fix it with UNISOUND.
If the distortion only occurs when using unisound, then it is probably a bug in UNISOUND.

Reply 81 of 507, by CachoAlpuy

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canthearu wrote on 2020-05-14, 14:15:
If it is a SB32, which is a AWE32/64 style product from Creative. […]
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If it is a SB32, which is a AWE32/64 style product from Creative.

These cards typically use CQM rather than OPL3 for FM, which is more resistant to system speed related issues, but doesn't sound as good in many games.

The gold standard would be to load the AZT2320 card's original DOS support, and compare it to the DOS support offered by unisound after turning the computer on and off again.

If the distortion occurs on both the original DOS drivers, and unisound, then it is a hardware/system speed problem and you won't be able to fix it with UNISOUND.
If the distortion only occurs when using unisound, then it is probably a bug in UNISOUND.

Yes my SB32 has QCM chip.

I already tried with the original driver and the same problem occurs.

Maybe it is for another thread but is there a TSR or something that intercepts the communications with 388 port and introduces a delay?

I checked that it is a problem in the delay of the messages sent to the port 388 because with adlib tracker, if the opl_latency param is set to 0 the problem occurs, if the param is set to 1 the sound works fine.

Reply 82 of 507, by 640K!enough

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Have you considered using a data file to map ISA vendor/device IDs to initialisation method? This would allow you (or anyone else, with appropriate documentation) to add support for a particular card with a chip that is already supported, without your having to modify the source, re-compile and issue an updated release.

Reply 83 of 507, by canthearu

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CachoAlpuy wrote on 2020-05-14, 15:11:

I checked that it is a problem in the delay of the messages sent to the port 388 because with adlib tracker, if the opl_latency param is set to 0 the problem occurs, if the param is set to 1 the sound works fine.

Such a device driver if possible would need something like EMM386 (but likely a more advanced versions EMM386 might not let you trap IO above port 0xFF).

You would need EMM386 (or similar memory manager) to put the computer in protected mode, then run DOS in VM86 mode, so the CPU would trap direct I/O instructions and then execute your program.

Wouldn't work with games incompatible with EMM386.

Reply 84 of 507, by JazeFox

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640K!enough wrote on 2020-05-16, 02:10:

Have you considered using a data file to map ISA vendor/device IDs to initialisation method? This would allow you (or anyone else, with appropriate documentation) to add support for a particular card with a chip that is already supported, without your having to modify the source, re-compile and issue an updated release.

Nope, I have reasons not to...

- It goes against the main philisophy of the tool: Simplicity, only one file to configure cards. Adding more files is closer to the original drivers "mess" I wanted to avoid.

- In fact, the Vendor ID "issue" is pretty well covered now, because the only affected chips were AZT2320 (and only a few for AD181x, and two for ES1869, covered already), because there are some different IDs for branded cards (from HP and Compaq..), and I recently found a list of IDs for AZT2320 chip based cards, so I'll add the missing ones to the next version of Unisound.

- To avoid possible issues with some chips, (for example, like ES968 PnP bridge chip), that altough they are the same in different cards, some cards require totally different configuration process (In that case I use other tricks to distinguish between cards)

- After the next version (which I think this will be pretty much covered with the mentioned list), If some IDs for known chip were missing, it would be very very few, and it would be absolutely no problem for me to add them manually.

So, no, it will not happen.

Reply 86 of 507, by boxpressed

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I finally had a chance to test today, and I am so impressed by this elegant solution. I tested two cards, a CS4237B-XQ3 and the Aztech Waverider Pro 32-3D (AZT2320). Both work flawlessly, and the latter card was very difficult to get working even with the original driver disks.

One of the most important resources for the community to come along in a while, in my book.

Reply 87 of 507, by binarymaster

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JazeFox wrote on 2020-03-13, 00:32:

UNISOUND is a DOS-only tool that configures and initializes PnP ISA sound cards from serveral brands and models, like ESS, Creative, ALS, CMI, ADI, Yamaha, and more... (And some non-PnP cards, like early SB16 software configurable models which required DIAGNOSE.EXE). Works on all x86 CPUs (8088/8086/286/386... and higher).

Hello @JazeFox!

Since you developed such a handy tool and have good knowledge in PnP ISA cards, I'd want to know if you are available for testing and maybe helping in development of related stuff in ReactOS operating system. Recently we got ISAPNP bus driver enabled, which is designed to make Plug-and-Play system aware of ISA PnP cards, it would be nice to have some testers for it. Note that ReactOS requires a Pentium or newer CPU.

Many people in our community watched PhilsComputerLab's video about your UNISOUND tool today and were fascinated by your work, so I decided to write here. 😀

Contact us in chat: https://chat.reactos.org/

by Stas'M

Reply 88 of 507, by detalite

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Good work. Most of my ISA sound cards works perfectly. But there is a room for improvement.

2 cards with Analog Devices chipsets with integrated wavetable - in game setups GM are detected but no sound.
Highscreen Sound-Boostar 16/32 3D - [ADS7181]
PROMISE 3D WEBSOUND - [ADS7180]

2 cards with ESS Technology chipsets with integrated wavetable - same as above, in game setups GM are detected with no sound.
ESS1869F - [ESS0003]
ESS1868F - [ESS1868]

EVEREX 3D Sound Express Plus [CSC4232] with CS4232 is detected and initialized by UNISOUND but in game setup i get errors during auto detection.

Reply 89 of 507, by LilitheLotor

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Re: AZAUDIO ISA PNP owners

I may have something that will help. I, too, saw the Phil's Computer Lab video and found this forum afterward.

I have a copy of some actual AZAUDIO drivers for DOS which may help the development of this initializer tool. They initialize my ISA PNP modem/sound card for use as a DOS sound card compatible with Sound Blaster drivers.

https://gitlab.eanbowman.com/ean/azaudio-dos-drivers

Enjoy! Feel free to fork this and add whatever might be useful.

Reply 90 of 507, by JazeFox

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Thanks again for the feedback and help.

detalite wrote on 2020-05-20, 19:56:
2 cards with Analog Devices chipsets with integrated wavetable - in game setups GM are detected but no sound. Highscreen Sound-B […]
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2 cards with Analog Devices chipsets with integrated wavetable - in game setups GM are detected but no sound.
Highscreen Sound-Boostar 16/32 3D - [ADS7181]
PROMISE 3D WEBSOUND - [ADS7180]

2 cards with ESS Technology chipsets with integrated wavetable - same as above, in game setups GM are detected with no sound.
ESS1869F - [ESS0003]
ESS1868F - [ESS1868]

I checked, and those cards use internal I2S to connect to built-in WaveTable ICs. I added support to enable audio output for those cards (not tested), so please, download this TEST version, and let me know if it worked:

https://mega.nz/file/iEgVkRCb#KEpCqCJfaLSBuuY … xDgiEzv96GQiHf0

EVEREX 3D Sound Express Plus [CSC4232] with CS4232 is detected and initialized by UNISOUND but in game setup i get errors during auto detection.

A few questions:
You say you get errors during audio detection, but... is the card working in game/games?
What game/s are you trying? Does the card behave the same in all games you tried? If not, give details, please.
Could you post here Unisound initialization text?
Machine specs?

---

Edited: Re-uploaded TEST version (prior file was wrong), new link posted.

Reply 92 of 507, by detalite

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I checked, and those cards use internal I2S to connect to built-in WaveTable ICs. I added support to enable audio output for those cards (not tested), so please, download this TEST version, and let me know if it worked:

ES1868F/ES1869F - now GM is working, but there is no sound in FM.
AD1816 [ADS7181][ADS7180] - same as ealier, GM not working.

You say you get errors during audio detection, but... is the card working in game/games?

In each game i get auto detection failure, except for FM which is detected but nevertheless doesn't reproduce sound. Manual configuration doesn't work either.

JqMrdc1t.jpgn0y8uP6t.jpg
0ErDMlct.jpgq3rxt9wt.jpg

What game/s are you trying? Does the card behave the same in all games you tried? If not, give details, please.

Duke Nukem 3D, Jagged Alliance2 and Heroes of Might and Magic 2.

Could you post here Unisound initialization text?

VhUjmLut.jpg

Machine specs?

CPU Pentium 166MMX
RAM 32MB SDR
MOBO Shuttle Hot-591P (VIA APOLLO MVP3)
OS DOS 6.22
rrsVWsvt.jpg

Reply 93 of 507, by boxpressed

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detalite wrote on 2020-05-20, 19:56:

EVEREX 3D Sound Express Plus [CSC4232] with CS4232 is detected and initialized by UNISOUND but in game setup i get errors during auto detection.

This is one of the oddest sound cards that I've worked with in a while. The Windows 3.1 install took over an hour, and it seems to work as it should in Windows. In DOS, the volume is a fraction of the Windows volume and is unusable. This is with the included drivers, not UNISOUND.

Reply 94 of 507, by detalite

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This is one of the oddest sound cards that I've worked with in a while. The Windows 3.1 install took over an hour, and it seems to work as it should in Windows. In DOS, the volume is a fraction of the Windows volume and is unusable. This is with the included drivers, not UNISOUND.

Crystal driver initializing procedure is quite complex.

RXAwBBTm.pngccHITLJm.png

Reply 95 of 507, by JazeFox

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@detalite

Thank you for the detailed report.

I'll look into this. Do you have orignal drivers for that particular CS4232 based card? it would help if you upload them somewhere.

About ES186x Wavetable/FM issue: FM and wavetable share the same Music DAC, when one is used, the other is disabled. I checked documentation, and the ES689/ES69x can operate in a special mode to detect presence of MIDI data and enable/disable its serial output as required, letting FM to take control again, but that mode is not documented (I couldn't find a proper ES689 datasheet, only product brief). (Finally I found ES962 datasheet, and auto-detect mode is possible using SysEX command 4. The control will be returned to FM after 5 seconds, if no MIDI activity is found by the WT chip). I'll add this to a future TEST version.
In the meantime, I would add a switch to Unisound, to select what synth you want to be enabled: FM or built-in WaveTable.

About AD186 GM, I continue researching...
Do you know if the original drivers use a TSR for internal WT MIDI or not?

Last edited by JazeFox on 2020-05-22, 13:57. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 96 of 507, by digistorm

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I have a strange bug with the latest version of Unisound and my AWE64 Value. While the wavetable sounds just fine, the CQM synth is only audible on the left channel. As they share the same mixer input, I don’t know how to fix that. If I just use the Creative tools (diagnose and aweutil) it sounds okay on both speakers. I used the same environment variables as normal. What could that be? It is a CT4520 by the way with a simmconn module attached to it.

Reply 97 of 507, by JazeFox

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digistorm wrote on 2020-05-22, 12:49:

I have a strange bug with the latest version of Unisound and my AWE64 Value. While the wavetable sounds just fine, the CQM synth is only audible on the left channel. As they share the same mixer input, I don’t know how to fix that. If I just use the Creative tools (diagnose and aweutil) it sounds okay on both speakers. I used the same environment variables as normal. What could that be? It is a CT4520 by the way with a simmconn module attached to it.

Hmmm, that's weird... I checked v0.70c with my CT4520 and It worked well, both channels work (CQM), tested in: Descent, Tie Fighter, Dark Forces, SSF2T.
Did a previous Unisound version work well for you? in that case, which one?
What game/program did you test?
What are your system specs?

Reply 98 of 507, by detalite

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I'll look into this. Do you have orignal drivers for that particular CS4232 based card? it would help if you upload them somewhere.

The drivers I use are for Turtle Beach Malibu (CS4237) at least, they wrote in README.TXT. But still it looks like they were initially made for CS4232.
I have three others Crystal sound card - CX4235, CS4236, CX4237B. CX4235 and CX4237B works fine. With CS4236 i have a problem with digital sound even with oryginal drivers, it just hangs up in loop. Need to check Maybe there is some diference between CX and CS chips.

CS4232 driver

About AD186 GM, I continue researching...
Do you know if the original drivers use a TSR for internal WT MIDI or not?

I don't know. I can add few more pictures, and maybe you can find something useful.

Before initialization
PTlhXAgm.jpg

Initialization process
JxBoISMm.jpg

CS4232 was listed on mem list after initialization, and AD1816 was not.
NovnUwym.jpg

Reply 99 of 507, by digistorm

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JazeFox wrote on 2020-05-22, 13:08:
Hmmm, that's weird... I checked v0.70c with my CT4520 and It worked well, both channels work (CQM), tested in: Descent, Tie Figh […]
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Hmmm, that's weird... I checked v0.70c with my CT4520 and It worked well, both channels work (CQM), tested in: Descent, Tie Fighter, Dark Forces, SSF2T.
Did a previous Unisound version work well for you? in that case, which one?
What game/program did you test?
What are your system specs?

I am sorry. I checked again, and it only happens after I first used the EMU synth. And only a cold reboot seems to fix that issue. But the card does the same with the creative drivers so I think my card is partially broken. I didn’t notice before because I hit the reset button to quickly test with the default startup files. So unisound works perfect.