JazeFox wrote on 2020-07-24, 06:43:

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-07-24, 03:41:

ADDED: I noticed that music had a strange polyphony / discordance. Suddenly realised, all port 330 GM played through the card, is simultaneously playing through the joystick port MPU *and* the card's internal GM (a Yamaha YMF704C). Maybe I'm doing something wrong there? I can work around it by using a second card for DOS SB, but it would be awesome to be able to disable this card's internal GM so I could use the joystick port MPU alone.

You're right, thank you for pointing it out. I'll add an extended option to disable the internal GM in the next version.
In the meantime, as a temporal workaround, use /VF00 to mute the onboard GM when you run games with MIDI sound on external module (if you run games with FM sound, don't mute with /VF00).

I wish there was a way I could donate to you $20 or something. I feel slightly unbalanced for asking about features when paying nothing. 😀

I just wanted to remind you about this, in case there was anything you could do in future. Basically, the ability to switch between the Internal MPU (which is the card's own MIDI chip) and External MPU (Joystick Port out), if possible.

Unfortunately the workaround of muting FM does not affect the GM/MPU outputs, so in UNISOUND there is currently no way to prevent the card's internal + external MPU's both outputting simultaneously, afaik.

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-08-07, 01:48:

I just wanted to remind you about this, in case there was anything you could do in future. Basically, the ability to switch between the Internal MPU (which is the card's own MIDI chip) and External MPU (Joystick Port out), if possible.

Unfortunately the workaround of muting FM does not affect the GM/MPU outputs, so in UNISOUND there is currently no way to prevent the card's internal + external MPU's both outputting simultaneously, afaik.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about that... It'll be added shortly. I'll send you a PM with some tests.

About donations, etc... I really appreciate the intention, but as I have said before, I don't accept money, no exceptions.

JazeFox wrote on 2020-08-07, 06:40:

About donations, etc... I really appreciate the intention, but as I have said before, I don't accept money, no exceptions.

Where/In what area do you live? If very close, i could buy you a beer. If in same region, maybe a bottle of wine can be sent. 😀

Wanted to also thank you for this amazing utility! Great work!

(And also wanted to have a post here for easier visibility for myself in this forum 😀 )

JazeFox wrote on 2020-08-07, 06:40:

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-08-07, 01:48:

I just wanted to remind you about this, in case there was anything you could do in future. Basically, the ability to switch between the Internal MPU (which is the card's own MIDI chip) and External MPU (Joystick Port out), if possible.

Unfortunately the workaround of muting FM does not affect the GM/MPU outputs, so in UNISOUND there is currently no way to prevent the card's internal + external MPU's both outputting simultaneously, afaik.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about that... It'll be added shortly. I'll send you a PM with some tests.

Many thanks, I'll have a test this weekend and get back to you with the results.

JazeFox wrote on 2020-08-07, 06:40:

Shreddoc wrote on 2020-08-07, 01:48:

I just wanted to remind you about this, in case there was anything you could do in future. Basically, the ability to switch between the Internal MPU (which is the card's own MIDI chip) and External MPU (Joystick Port out), if possible.

Unfortunately the workaround of muting FM does not affect the GM/MPU outputs, so in UNISOUND there is currently no way to prevent the card's internal + external MPU's both outputting simultaneously, afaik.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot about that... It'll be added shortly. I'll send you a PM with some tests.

Hi, I've just done some testing with 0.75f which you sent me. I can't PM yet, so will have to respond here, for now.

After doing /VF00, the internal MPU and joystick port MPU are both still playing. Here are some basic info of the test done:
https://imgur.com/RX9wI4T
https://imgur.com/Uqp8PdX

The attached MP3 file is a recording of the test music. The discordant sound of the two MPUs output can be heard. (edit, seems I'm not allowed to attach file directly, but - https://www.sendspace.com/file/lph18b - is basic link to the MP3, if you need to hear it)

This is the card:
https://imgur.com/IBwOlHY

System = MSDOS 7.x, i.e. boot to DOS version included in Windows 98SE.

Re: OPL4 cards such as mine. Quoted below, which may or may not be relevant to the development work, is peripheral information from the page: http://www.os2museum.com/wp/44-voice-midi-on-yamaha-opl4/

"MPU-401 Compatibility:

For MIDI playback it’s important whether a card has a “real” MPU-401 interface. There were substantial differences among the OPL4-based boards in this regard.

The OPL4 chip itself did not directly respond to MIDI data and had to be driven by software (or firmware). Some cards, such as the Audiotrix Pro, Logitech SoundMan Wave, or miroSOUND PCM12 and PCM20, included a microcontroller which enabled direct MIDI playback over the MPU-401 interface....."

@Shreddoc

I'm sorry, I've been busy these days. Anyway, that OPL4 info has nothing to do with this. Your YMF704C is a totally different chip, it has builtin MIDI interpreter. MIDI signal can be directly fed to pin 35 (RXD). That is what is used on your card.

The point is in the digital sound routing. I can see in your card's photo (altough a bit blurry) that I2S pins (digital audio inputs) of the AD1816A chip are routed differently of what I've seen other times. Usually I2S1 ones are used for onboard Wavetable, but I can barely see in the photo that this card is using I2S0 pins instead (anyway I may be wrong). I'll try to disable I2S0 digital audio instead of I2S1 for your card. I'll send you a TEST version within next few days. In the meantime if you want, test original drivers if you have them and check if the mixer has an option for I2S0 or I2S1.

JazeFox wrote on 2020-08-12, 06:17:

@Shreddoc

I'm sorry, I've been busy these days. Anyway, that OPL4 info has nothing to do with this. Your YMF704C is a totally different chip, it has builtin MIDI interpreter. MIDI signal can be directly fed to pin 35 (RXD). That is what is used on your card.

The point is in the digital sound routing. I can see in your card's photo (altough a bit blurry) that I2S pins (digital audio inputs) of the AD1816A chip are routed differently of what I've seen other times. Usually I2S1 ones are used for onboard Wavetable, but I can barely see in the photo that this card is using I2S0 pins instead (anyway I may be wrong). I'll try to disable I2S0 digital audio instead of I2S1 for your card. I'll send you a TEST version within next few days. In the meantime if you want, test original drivers if you have them and check if the mixer has an option for I2S0 or I2S1.

That sounds good, thanks. I'll get a better photo tomorrow. You be as busy as you need to be - there is zero need for hurry, on my behalf. DOS drivers for this card are lost to time, so everything you accomplish here is already more than I had. I'm just sorry for having a weird sound card, haha.

Cheers 😀

I have a question about the AWE64 support. If I use UNISOUND to initialise it, and after that I use Creative's mixerset app (to have a graphical UI to set the mixer or to set controls that UNISOUND does not support) then after that UNISOUND can no longer see the AWE64 even though it still works fine. The same thing does not happen with my non-PNP SB16 or my GUSPNP and their own mixer app (pnpmix). Is this known / intentional / unavoidable or is it a bug?
It just disappears. If I do a list of all cards (UNISOUND /CL) it doesn't see it anymore.

digistorm wrote on 2020-08-20, 09:55:

I have a question about the AWE64 support. If I use UNISOUND to initialise it, and after that I use Creative's mixerset app (to have a graphical UI to set the mixer or to set controls that UNISOUND does not support) then after that UNISOUND can no longer see the AWE64 even though it still works fine. The same thing does not happen with my non-PNP SB16 or my GUSPNP and their own mixer app (pnpmix). Is this known / intentional / unavoidable or is it a bug?
It just disappears. If I do a list of all cards (UNISOUND /CL) it doesn't see it anymore.

That's weird, because I could not reproduce that behavior...

I tested 3 different AWE64 cards on 2 different systems (486 without PnP BIOS and Pentium with PnP BIOS) and everything worked fine. I initialize with UNISOUND, then I run MIXERSET, changed some vols, exit, and then UNISOUND could recognize AWE cards without issues.

So let's see what's happening with yours, details are required:

What system do you have? configuration? how many cards plugged? What AWE64 exact model? Did you try with a different Creative PnP card and the same happens? What version of UNISOUND? (current version is 0.75e, should try with that if not used) what version of MIXERSET? (you can see it at the top bar when running) Contents of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT? If you use CTCM instead of UNISOUND, it's the same happening?

And one more question: what controls do you use in MIXERSET that UNISOUND does not support?

JazeFox wrote on 2020-08-20, 10:38:

That's weird, because I could not reproduce that behaviour... […]
Show full quote

That's weird, because I could not reproduce that behaviour...

I tested 3 different AWE64 cards on 2 different systems (486 without PnP BIOS and Pentium with PnP BIOS) and everything worked fine. I initialize with UNISOUND, then I run MIXERSET, changed some vols, exit, and then UNISOUND could recognize AWE cards withous issues.

So let's see what's happening, details are required:

What system do you have? configuration? how many cards plugged? What AWE64 exact model? Did you try with a different Creative PnP card and the same happens? What version of UNISOUND? (current version is 0.75e, should try with that if not used) what version of MIXERSET? (you can see it at the top bar when running) Contents of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT? If you use CTCM instead of UNISOUND, it's happening the same?

And one more question: what controls do you use in MIXERSET that UNISOUND does not support?

This is a 486 VLB machine from 1995.
CPU: Cyrix 486DX2/66 on 66 MHz
Mainboard: Soyo SY-25 K2, latest BIOS as far as I know
32 MB of FP RAM
Avance Logic V7-Vega Plus VLB videocard with ALG1201 chipset
Holtek VIO3B VLB I/O controller card
RTL8019AS ISA network card
CT4520 AWE64 card with SIMMCONN + 32 MB installed

UNISOUND v0.75e
MIXERSET 2.15

I tried running the Creative drivers again with CTCM, DIAGNOSE and AWEUTIL and the same thing happens. And that got me thinking: I have used and tried older versions of UNISOUND before and I don't remember this happening. I ran the Creative drivers and when I just gave UNISOUND a go to see if it recognised my card it saw it just fine. That might have been 0.72 or earlier, but I didn't keep the old versions.

Relevant parts of CONFIG.SYS:

1[common]
2DOS=HIGH,UMB
3FILES=40
4BUFFERS=30
5LASTDRIVE=H
6DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /TESTMEM:OFF
7
8[dos_xms]
9;DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\HTIDE\HTIDE.SYS /D0=2,4
10;DEVICE=C:\DRIVERS\SB16\CTCM\CTCM.EXE

Relevant parts of AUTOEXEC.BAT:

1:dos_xms
2:demo
3SET SOUND=C:\DRIVERS\SB16
4SET BLASTER=A220 I7 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
5SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
6UNISOUND /C2
7rem C:\DRIVERS\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S
8rem C:\DRIVERS\SB16\AWEUTIL /S
9C:\DRIVERS\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
10
11:einde
12if %CONFIG%==demo call C:\PROGRAMS\UTILS\SHORT.BAT
13if %CONFIG%==win call WIN
14
15LH C:\DRIVERS\CTMOUSE.EXE /R2
16LH C:\PROGRAMS\UTILS\DOSED.COM -d -i -r- -s- -q
17C:\DRIVERS\SPEA\ASCAN2 /C

Oh, and about the missing controls: I use the balance controls when I connect to my speakers instead of headphones because they have sentimental value but are a bit broken (my OCD can't handle off-center audio). Also, my OCD turns off inputs instead of setting the level to zero (on my other DOS system), don't know if that makes a difference.

Edit:
I did some more testing, and without the network card, it works just fine as you yourself also tested. Is it possible that the detection or listing goes wrong with this network card? I asked for your help before, around version 0.72, and I was (and am) having trouble with this card. It no longer works in DOS when the CT4520 is initialised.
Are those Realtek chips a pain or what? 😉 It is the card that was first added to this pc (this is my first pc) and I might try to find another network card but then it is a little less "original"… (for 100% original, I need a SB16 Value, but I don't know the type because back then I didn't know about the model numbers).

digistorm wrote on 2020-08-20, 11:51:

This is a 486 VLB machine from 1995. CPU: Cyrix 486DX2/66 on 66 MHz Mainboard: Soyo SY-25 K2, latest BIOS as far as I know 32 MB […]
Show full quote

This is a 486 VLB machine from 1995.
CPU: Cyrix 486DX2/66 on 66 MHz
Mainboard: Soyo SY-25 K2, latest BIOS as far as I know
32 MB of FP RAM
Avance Logic V7-Vega Plus VLB videocard with ALG1201 chipset
Holtek VIO3B VLB I/O controller card
RTL8019AS ISA network card
CT4520 AWE64 card with SIMMCONN + 32 MB installed

UNISOUND v0.75e
MIXERSET 2.15

Ok, let's try some things:

(1)- Run UNISOUND /C2 /F (or UNISOUND /CL /F) and let me know if that changed something or not (now /F is an undocumented option, for testing)
(2)- If (1) did not work, boot skipping CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT (i think it was Shift+F5 IIRC) and try again
(3)- If (1) and (2) failed, try removing RTL8019AS and try again (Without /C2 option in UNISOUND).
(4)- Finally if none of the above worked, try with UNISOUND /CL /XXF

Let me know the results 😀
Thanks.

I tried running the Creative drivers again with CTCM, DIAGNOSE and AWEUTIL and the same thing happens.

But is CTCM working after MIXERSET or not? (not UNISOUND).

EDIT (I saw you edit later...)

Edit:
I did some more testing, and without the network card, it works just fine as you yourself also tested. Is it possible that the detection or listing goes wrong with this network card? I asked for your help before, around version 0.72, and I was (and am) having trouble with this card. It no longer works in DOS when the CT4520 is initialised.
Are those Realtek chips a pain or what? winking face It is the card that was first added to this pc (this is my first pc) and I might try to find another network card but then it is a little less "original"… (for 100% original, I need a SB16 Value, but I don't know the type because back then I didn't know about the model numbers).

Ahh, yes, I remember the problem with that network card.. it caused problems even with original CTCM... maybe it's broken or has bad EEPROM/PnP settings and it works in Windows "by luck"... Can you try with diferent network card?

JazeFox wrote on 2020-08-20, 12:22:

Ok, let's try some things:

(1)- Run UNISOUND /C2 /F (or UNISOUND /CL /F) and let me know if that changed something or not (now /F is an undocumented option, for testing)

Interesting… When I run UNISOUND /C2 straight after boot, it says:

1Card #1 [PNP0060] Skipped.
2No PnP sound card detected.

When I run UNISOUND /C2 /F it says:

1Card #1 [PNP0060] Skipped.
2PnP card found: [CTL00E4] Creative SB AWE64  PnP

and it just works.

But after that I can run MIXERSET as often as I like, and it will be detected even without the /F option.

Ahh, yes, I remember the problem with that network card.. it caused problems even with original CTCM... maybe it's broken or has bad EEPROM/PnP settings and it works in Windows "by luck"... Can you try with diferent network card?

Well, this card survived a lightning spike which knocked the PSU in stand-by mode (a AT PSU) and killed my dad's NIC and PSU when it was running as a cable modem router, so something might be damaged but for the same reason it has some sentimental value because it survived through all this. But I am tempted to replace it with a 3COM network card, but I don't have one (I am not a collector) and it would make the pc a little less "original". I am glad this workaround helps, I might delay searching for another network card 😊

I'll try it on the Versa M75....I like cool stuff like this.

I have Compaq Deskpro Pentium III 500MHz, SFF sized. It has ES1869 -chip and for some reason Unisound doesn't see that. Got it working with ESS's own DOS-tool and VXD-Win98SE drivers.

Thought it was Unisound compatible?

dj_pirtu wrote on 2020-09-08, 05:52:

I have Compaq Deskpro Pentium III 500MHz, SFF sized. It has ES1869 -chip and for some reason Unisound doesn't see that. Got it working with ESS's own DOS-tool and VXD-Win98SE drivers.

Thought it was Unisound compatible?

I had the exact same issue, apparently our ESS chip isn't fully PNP compatible Re: UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Enabler for DOS v0.72c

Oetker wrote on 2020-09-08, 05:58:

I had the exact same issue, apparently our ESS chip isn't fully PNP compatible Re: UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Enabler for DOS v0.72c

It isn't that the ESS chip isn't fully PnP-compatible; rather, it has to do with the way Compaq chose to integrate it. They likely added it as a Plug and Play system device, which is perfectly reasonable, since it is integrated onto the motherboard. The issue arises because UNISOUND only supports Plug and Play ISA devices. Since the device in question does not respond as an ISA device during PnP initialisation, UNISOUND can't find it, and will therefore be unable to initialise it. It's not a UNISOUND bug, and it's not poor design by Compaq; UNISOUND just wasn't designed to work with devices integrated in that way.

Is there an easy to access and comprehensive list of chipsets the program can initialize? A table with chipsets and degree of support for them would be great, something like what DosBox page has for games..

appiah4 wrote on 2020-09-09, 08:03:

Is there an easy to access and comprehensive list of chipsets the program can initialize? A table with chipsets and degree of support for them would be great, something like what DosBox page has for games..

You can find the supported chips in the UNISOUND.TXT file present in every ZIP release (section 3). Special considerations for some cards in section 4, extended settings for some cards in section 5, and a list of tested Creative cards in section 6.1. In the help screen (/h /?) you can also see some settings for Creative cards only (non-PnP SB16/AWE init, and PCSpeaker/Treble/Bass levels only for compatible Creative cards). Try to have always the latest version downloaded to check for additions to TXT (now it's 0.75e)

If you mean specific card's brands/models and not the chipsets, it would be great if users post here successfully tested cards with brand+model , if present. Some OEM or cheap cards don't have markings or have different ones for the same layout...

If you wanted more detailed explanations for each chip support, let me know what is missing and I'll try to complete.

Thanks for this, will be trying it out with several cards this fall!
(Specifically, AWE64/CT4520, ES1868F, CS4236B and ALS100+.)