athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-23, 03:48:

I know these cards are infamous for having issues, but I want to preface this with one thing: […]
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I know these cards are infamous for having issues, but I want to preface this with one thing:

There is a small dent on one of the oscillator crystals, that was not present in the photo on the eBay post. Either I did it, or it was done during shipping, but it's there now.

20200622_232718.jpg

20200622_232816.jpg

Anyways, the issues I've been having lie within IRQ conflicts, and Base I/O conflicts, specifically. I have an ISA 3Com Etherlink 3c509-B installed with it, as well as a PCI STB Velocity Nitro 3D 4MB on a Gateway 2000 P5 200 (Intel 430TX Chipset)

The resource conflicts went just beyond the IDE initially, but I was able to correct some of them while messing around with them in Windows. The wave and MIDI sound works just fine, so I don't think the crystal is doing anything to those if it has been damaged. The resource conflicts in detail:

The card conflicting with itself:

YAMAHA OPL3-SAx Reserved conflicts with YAMAHA OPL3-SAx Sound System at an I/O value of 0100-0107. Resolved by moving the I/O value to 0108-010F.

And the real king of problems here:

YAMAHA OPL3-SAx IDE conflicts with Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) and IRQ Holder for PCI Steering at IRQ 11.

YAMAHA OPL3-SAx IDE conflicts with Intel(r) 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller and IRA Holder for PCI Steering at IRQ 10.

Additionally, any IRQ's I enter that are not 10 or 11 are rejected, I have tried everything. I have also set BIOS to non PnP OS, which changed nothing, and then a special setting called "ICU," which also did nothing.

Before I really messed around with it, it also conflicted with the PCI Bus Master for IDE and the Intel IDE controller. Not sure what I did to fix that as that went away suddenly after I did something (can't remember what) and they were replaced with the PCI Steering and USB. I have not installed video drivers yet, as that would be pretty pointless at this stage. The IDE is completely disabled in the SETUPSA configuration utility, so why it's still popping up is unbeknownst to me. Also, damn you Addonics, could you not have at least put a jumper to disable the IDE?! Not everybody is going to need that!

I think this is a result of me damaging that oscillator crystal and not knowing. In any case, I have thrown US$30 down the drain (not surprising to me at this point), like I do with ~75% of the vintage hardware I get these days that works perfectly fine until I own it.

Do yourself a favor, try Tiido's SETYMF utility . In comparison, SETUPSA is like getting a lobotomy with a weed eater.
See http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC/ (feel free to donate if it works for you)

a) backup your card EEPROM with http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC/SETYMF/READPNP.EXE and copy it somewhere safe .
b) Read or at least peruse http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC/SETYMF/SETYMF.TXT
c) Use http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC/SETYMF/SETYMF.EXE to configure your card as desired. Write config to EEPROM if desired .
d) run SETYMF /FORCEPNP /initonly on every boot (in autoexec.bat for example)
e) See your problems disappear, hopefully .

If anything goes wrong, you can always put your EEPROM back in its origincal state with http://www.tmeeco.eu/TKAYBSC/SETYMF/WRITEPNP.EXE to restore your original EEPROM (if you chose to overwrite it previously) .

Probably a really stupid question because it's likely in that document you linked somewhere, but on the software, on some of the options, it has A, B, or disabled. What does the A and B mean?

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:50:

Probably a really stupid question because it's likely in that document you linked somewhere, but on the software, on some of the options, it has A, B, or disabled. What does the A and B mean?

Sorry, for the delayed response .

A and B are variables for IRQ A and IRQ B, which are defined at the top left of the screen . The card can use 2 IRQs, you decide which one gets assigned to each of the card's sub-devices. Normally, only the Sound Blaster Pro and WSS need to have IRQs assigned (WSS needs to have one assigned for playback and one for recording) .

darry wrote on 2020-06-23, 23:15:

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:50:

Probably a really stupid question because it's likely in that document you linked somewhere, but on the software, on some of the options, it has A, B, or disabled. What does the A and B mean?

Sorry, for the delayed response .

A and B are variables for IRQ A and IRQ B, which are defined at the top left of the screen . The card can use 2 IRQs, you decide which one gets assigned to each of the card's sub-devices. Normally, only the Sound Blaster Pro and WSS need to have IRQs assigned (WSS needs to have one assigned for playback and one for recording) .

You're alright, I figured that out a few hours ago, found out that writing the eeprom disabled IDE, was happy, wrote the EEPROM with a sensible configuration, and... Windows can't detect the card, and for some reason writepnp doesn't seem to write anything to the card. Using the SETYMF commands in autoexec didn't seem to help, either. I've tried typing writepnp eeprom.bin (the file it backed it up to), it says it wrote it successfully, but never actually writes anything. This is definitely user error of some kind, as I've never messed with any utilities like this before save for ethernet card configuration utilities, which are very different from this.

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-23, 23:54:

darry wrote on 2020-06-23, 23:15:

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-23, 14:50:

Probably a really stupid question because it's likely in that document you linked somewhere, but on the software, on some of the options, it has A, B, or disabled. What does the A and B mean?

Sorry, for the delayed response .

A and B are variables for IRQ A and IRQ B, which are defined at the top left of the screen . The card can use 2 IRQs, you decide which one gets assigned to each of the card's sub-devices. Normally, only the Sound Blaster Pro and WSS need to have IRQs assigned (WSS needs to have one assigned for playback and one for recording) .

You're alright, I figured that out a few hours ago, found out that writing the eeprom disabled IDE, was happy, wrote the EEPROM with a sensible configuration, and... Windows can't detect the card, and for some reason writepnp doesn't seem to write anything to the card. Using the SETYMF commands in autoexec didn't seem to help, either. I've tried typing writepnp eeprom.bin (the file it backed it up to), it says it wrote it successfully, but never actually writes anything. This is definitely user error of some kind, as I've never messed with any utilities like this before save for ethernet card configuration utilities, which are very different from this.

If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you cannot rename it, or it will not work .

Before trying writepnp again, I would try re-writing the EEPROM with SETYMF , in case something went wrong the first time .

As for Windows not detecting it, are you sure it is not simply detrcting it under another name and auto-installing drivers ? There is nothing in the sound card section or under other devices ?

EDIT: If all else fails, maybe worth pm-ing Tiido about it . He is a member here .

darry wrote on 2020-06-24, 00:09:

If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you can […]
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If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you cannot rename it, or it will not work .

Before trying writepnp again, I would try re-writing the EEPROM with SETYMF , in case something went wrong the first time .

As for Windows not detecting it, are you sure it is not simply detrcting it under another name and auto-installing drivers ? There is nothing in the sound card section or under other devices ?

EDIT: If all else fails, maybe worth pm-ing Tiido about it . He is a member here .

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as something else as it did try installing a bunch of odd drivers for it like SoundBlaster Pro and Windows Sound System drivers alongside each other. The Yamaha drivers are still there for Windows to use but for some reason it doesn't want to use them, and I don't really know how I'd go about getting the system to detect the card itself.

The BIOS on this machine will display a list of all PnP ISA cards installed, and it would identify itself as OPL3-SAx Sound Board, but it doesn't show any signs of it detecting the card anymore.

[EDIT]

I removed the weird drivers, and now Windows isn't automatically detecting anything at all. I'd have to go into the add new hardware wizard, which would give me the same bogus built-in drivers. I may or may not just go ahead and buy a new soundcard due to the untimely dent on that timing crystal.

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-24, 00:20:

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as […]
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darry wrote on 2020-06-24, 00:09:

If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you can […]
Show full quote

If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you cannot rename it, or it will not work .

Before trying writepnp again, I would try re-writing the EEPROM with SETYMF , in case something went wrong the first time .

As for Windows not detecting it, are you sure it is not simply detrcting it under another name and auto-installing drivers ? There is nothing in the sound card section or under other devices ?

EDIT: If all else fails, maybe worth pm-ing Tiido about it . He is a member here .

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as something else as it did try installing a bunch of odd drivers for it like SoundBlaster Pro and Windows Sound System drivers alongside each other. The Yamaha drivers are still there for Windows to use but for some reason it doesn't want to use them, and I don't really know how I'd go about getting the system to detect the card itself.

The BIOS on this machine will display a list of all PnP ISA cards installed, and it would identify itself as OPL3-SAx Sound Board, but it doesn't show any signs of it detecting the card anymore.

[EDIT]

I removed the weird drivers, and now Windows isn't automatically detecting anything at all. I'd have to go into the add new hardware wizard, which would give me the same bogus built-in drivers. I may or may not just go ahead and buy a new soundcard due to the untimely dent on that timing crystal.

It sounds like your PnP EEPROM is dead . You may still be able to use the card if you let Windows detect as a non PlugnPlay device (with add new hardware wizard) and use the WSS driver configured properly .

darry wrote on 2020-06-24, 01:07:

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-24, 00:20:

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2020-06-24, 00:09:

If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you can […]
Show full quote

If memory serves, writepnp will only use the filename that readpnp created . You do not need to specify the filename and you cannot rename it, or it will not work .

Before trying writepnp again, I would try re-writing the EEPROM with SETYMF , in case something went wrong the first time .

As for Windows not detecting it, are you sure it is not simply detrcting it under another name and auto-installing drivers ? There is nothing in the sound card section or under other devices ?

EDIT: If all else fails, maybe worth pm-ing Tiido about it . He is a member here .

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as something else as it did try installing a bunch of odd drivers for it like SoundBlaster Pro and Windows Sound System drivers alongside each other. The Yamaha drivers are still there for Windows to use but for some reason it doesn't want to use them, and I don't really know how I'd go about getting the system to detect the card itself.

The BIOS on this machine will display a list of all PnP ISA cards installed, and it would identify itself as OPL3-SAx Sound Board, but it doesn't show any signs of it detecting the card anymore.

[EDIT]

I removed the weird drivers, and now Windows isn't automatically detecting anything at all. I'd have to go into the add new hardware wizard, which would give me the same bogus built-in drivers. I may or may not just go ahead and buy a new soundcard due to the untimely dent on that timing crystal.

It sounds like your PnP EEPROM is dead . You may still be able to use the card if you let Windows detect as a non PlugnPlay device (with add new hardware wizard) and use the WSS driver configured properly .

Ah, hell, might as well get another card of some kind. Can't hurt anything at this point. Thanks for the help, though! It just sucks that I've had such a string of bad luck.

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-24, 01:23:

darry wrote on 2020-06-24, 01:07:

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-24, 00:20:

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as […]
Show full quote

It is still detected in SETYMF, and I can even play sounds through it from that utility. It may be that Windows is seeing it as something else as it did try installing a bunch of odd drivers for it like SoundBlaster Pro and Windows Sound System drivers alongside each other. The Yamaha drivers are still there for Windows to use but for some reason it doesn't want to use them, and I don't really know how I'd go about getting the system to detect the card itself.

The BIOS on this machine will display a list of all PnP ISA cards installed, and it would identify itself as OPL3-SAx Sound Board, but it doesn't show any signs of it detecting the card anymore.

[EDIT]

I removed the weird drivers, and now Windows isn't automatically detecting anything at all. I'd have to go into the add new hardware wizard, which would give me the same bogus built-in drivers. I may or may not just go ahead and buy a new soundcard due to the untimely dent on that timing crystal.

It sounds like your PnP EEPROM is dead . You may still be able to use the card if you let Windows detect as a non PlugnPlay device (with add new hardware wizard) and use the WSS driver configured properly .

Ah, hell, might as well get another card of some kind. Can't hurt anything at this point. Thanks for the help, though! It just sucks that I've had such a string of bad luck.

Hope you have better luck next time . Ironically, YMF71x cards are pretty much my favourites for DOS support, so extra unlucky it did not work out .

It is unfortunate you have had such bad luck with the sound card.

The dent in the 33MHz crystal is not fatal, otherwise the card would be completely non functional. Now EEPROM not getting written is a new one to me, in theory the function that does it shouldn't be speed sensitive and I haven't observed any issues but that's right now the only thing i can think of being the problem. If the EEPROM can be read by the card it should also be writable.

/FORCEPNP option is only necessary if the card is not getting detected by default, such as it would be the case with Mediatrix cards that use a different PnP ID from normal YMF71x based cards. Does SETYMF find your card even without the /FORCEPNP option ?

What happens if you go to BIOS and temporarily disable L1 and/or L2 cache (this will slow the CPU way down, eliminating any potential speed sensitivity issues) and try to write new EEPROM content from within SETYMF ?

Without PnP but still having card initialized, Windows would indeed start seeing individual legacy hardware componens when you use hardware scan option. Since there is IRQ is sharing between SB, WSS and MPU401 port there probably are headaches getting things actually to work that way, which is why Yamaha has their own dedicated driver (that you can also get from my site).

Do you need an IRQ for VGA? Might be able to turn that off in the motherboard BIOS "Assign IRQ to VGA" option if you have it (and don't need it enabled) - that should give you back one IRQ...

The card will still use two IRQs, and the subdevices on it need 3 if taken separately as WSS/SB/MPU leading to conflict within the subparts when not using the Yamaha's driver which uses single IRQ for all 3. DMA is also similarly affected, SB uses one and WSS wants 2, and 1 of them is always shared with SB but again Yamaha's driver will handle it right while separate SB and WSS drivers will end up conflicting.

SETYMF will not detect the card without me using /FORCEPNP, but when I do it does play sounds through the card just fine so it is at least somewhat functional. There isn't an option to disable video IRQ in the setup of that PC (I think), so I don't think that would work out anyways. I'll definitely have to try slowing the system down and seeing if that works, because I do have options to disable both L1 and L2 cache.

Did SETYMF find the card prior to writing the EEPROM or did you always need /FORCEPNP option ? Disabling caches is certainly worth to try. The EEPROM chips are somewhat timing sensitive and there is no sort of ready/busy monitoring facility so I simply used a long enough delay that seemed to work with all the cards I got, but perhaps the one you have has a slower chip or the timing mechanism I use simply doesn't work as expected on all hardware. I'm curious to hear about the results ~

It was able to detect the card prior to me writing the EEPROM, so I think it has something to do with the PnP ID or... something. This is far beyond my expertise so I can't really be for sure. I'll try disabling cache on that system when I get home from work and see how that goes. It does say it's "successful," each time, so it might think it's working seeing as all it can do is guess (could Yamaha really not just put in a stupid monitoring thing in it? would it have been that much more expensive or complex? bleh. it probably saved them like an entire us cent or something just to leave the chip dumb so we get to deal with it).

Also, the facetious part of me really wants to make some sort of snarky comment about the timing potentially being a problem and what happened to that oscillator, but I'll restrain myself 🤣

IT WORKEDEDED, SLOWING THE TIMING DID THE THINGAMAJIG THING. THANK YOU.

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-26, 18:38:

IT WORKEDEDED, SLOWING THE TIMING DID THE THINGAMAJIG THING. THANK YOU.

Cool, but what worked.

Writing the EEPROM with SETYMF ?

Restoring the EEPROM with WRITEPNP.EXE ?

Both, in fact. I was able to write the old one back with the cache disabled, and then re-write a new thing to disable the IDE, and it w o r k e d.

My computer was too fast xd, it didn't corrupt the eeprom and the PC still detected it

athlon-power wrote on 2020-06-26, 20:30:

Both, in fact. I was able to write the old one back with the cache disabled, and then re-write a new thing to disable the IDE, and it w o r k e d.

My computer was too fast xd, it didn't corrupt the eeprom and the PC still detected it

So everything works and no more Windows resource conflicts either, if I understand correctly.

If so, great news .