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Reply 20 of 45, by darry

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jheronimus wrote on 2021-03-05, 14:45:
Hezus wrote on 2021-03-03, 16:34:

A Pentium 3 with an MT-32 seems like a mismatch to me. An early 90s system would be a lot better.

I think it's not just a mismatch, but quite a few MT-32-capable games might simply not work on a P3. I remember that some Legend Entertainment titles (like Superhero League of Hoboken) didn't really work on a fast system for me, and I think I've read that some Sierra/Dynamix titles might have issues, too. 386DX33-486DX33 should be optimal to showcase MT-32 music.

An excessively fast system will indeed break compatibility with lots of older games, including but not limited to, MT-32 compatible ones, but there are workarounds .

Legend Entertainment's Gateway (notoriously speed sensitive) works fine for me with an MT-32 (and SoftMPU) on a P3 1.4GHz with L1 and L2 caches disabled, as do all the MT-32 compatible titles that I have tried (including Space Quest III, AFAICR), though I have obviously not tried all of them . Lowering FSB to 66MHz from 100MHz or 133MHz would provide an additional slowdown, if necessary . Then there are slowdown utilities (which I have not needed yet) .

My reason for doing this is lack of space, which lead me to consolidate DOS and Windows 98 SE software into a single build . The way I see it, you can always slow down a system that's too fast, if necessary . If the system is too slow, you can't do much short of upgrading or using another system .

Reply 21 of 45, by C0deHunter

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Well, according to Phil's Computer Lab's MT-32 video:

MT-32
MT-32's OUTPUT (R-L) ---> AWE64 Line IN

Then for my setup, in order to have both SC-55 and Roland UM-ONE connected at the same time:
SC-55
Then MT-32 THRU ---> SC-55 IN

Roland UM-ONE
Sc-55 THRU --->UM-ONE OUT

At what point do I need to lower (mute) which sound volume?
SC-55 (all others mute?)
UM-ONE (all others mute?)
MT-32 (all others mute?)

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Last edited by C0deHunter on 2021-03-05, 23:04. Edited 2 times in total.

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 22 of 45, by C0deHunter

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I forgot to mention that AWE64 out goes into SC-55 INPUT, then from SC-55 OUTPUT it goes into Cakewalk powered speakers.

At what point do I need to lower (mute) which sound volume?
SC-55 (all others mute?)
UM-ONE (all others mute?)
MT-32 (all others mute?)

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PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 23 of 45, by darry

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-05, 22:46:

I forgot to mention that AWE64 out goes into SC-55 INPUT, then from SC-55 OUTPUT it goes into Cakewalk powered speakers.

TBH, all these cascaded audio devices are giving me a headache . My suggestion to lower volume on the device whose audio is not wanted at a given time will likely also mute audio passing through it, so it will not work in your setup.

I don't see how phil manages to get this working effectively. Maybe there is something that I am not seeing .

IMHO, you will have less complexity, better quality audio and more flexibility if you invest in an inexpensive line mixer .

Reply 24 of 45, by jesolo

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-05, 22:46:
I forgot to mention that AWE64 out goes into SC-55 INPUT, then from SC-55 OUTPUT it goes into Cakewalk powered speakers. […]
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I forgot to mention that AWE64 out goes into SC-55 INPUT, then from SC-55 OUTPUT it goes into Cakewalk powered speakers.

At what point do I need to lower (mute) which sound volume?
SC-55 (all others mute?)
UM-ONE (all others mute?)
MT-32 (all others mute?)

The SC-55 has the option to mute all (which means you won't hear any sound coming from the SC-55).
This is in a case where you want to hear your MT-32 sound playback.
In my case, my MIDI goes out from my sound card and first via my SC-55 and then through to the MT-32.
If you want to hear your SC-55, simply switch off the MT-32.
I do, however, have two separate outputs from each device - this you can route via a simple mixer to control which output goes into the line in of your AWE64 (or just swop the cables if you don't have a mixer).

Basically, MIDI out from Sound card to MIDI IN on SC-55 and then MIDI THRU from SC-55 to MIDI IN on MT-32.
LINE OUT from either SC-55 or MT-32 to LINE IN on sound card.
LINE OUT from sound card to speakers or amplifier.
When it comes to the audio part, you can only route one audio signal at a time to your soubd card.

I don't use my UM-ONE with this setup (I don't see the need if I have a real MT-32).

Reply 25 of 45, by Shreddoc

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Here's a ~$20 option.

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Whether or not it works for you, depends upon your particular requirements/fussinesses. 😀

A slight tweak of the above would be: A serdaco DB15-to-DualMIDIOutputs adapter (another $20) on your soundcard's MIDI out. Then a separate MIDI cable can go to each (one to the SC-55, and one to the MUNT). The advantage of the tweak being, you then don't need to switch on the SC-55 to use the MUNT.

--

Obviously, the most elegant and functional solution is to simply send all outputs (soundcard audio, SC55 audio, and MUNT audio) separately into a >3-channel mixer. Then you've got full control of who-plays-what-and-when, and-at-what-volume. But for a small mixer that doesn't suck balls and add noise, you're gonna be in at least the $50-100 bracket.

Reply 26 of 45, by C0deHunter

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You guys are amazing! thanks for all your suggestions!

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 27 of 45, by darry

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-05, 23:56:

You guys are amazing! thanks for all your suggestions!

If you can spare some budget (50$), check this out : https://www.amazon.com/Rolls-MX42-Stereo-Mini … r/dp/B00102ZN40 .

With a mixer like that you can still daisy-chain everything MIDI-wise and plug the audio out of every device to the mixer . Then, you plug the mixer out to the speakers .

That way you can :
- listen to only the devices you want to (no matter how many are processing MIDI simultaneously) by muting the ones you don't want on the mixer
- listen to any combination of wave and MIDI devices simultaneously
- control relative volumes centrally on the mixer
- have the option to add another device or sound card easily

Reply 28 of 45, by vutt

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I'm with darry with this. External audio mixer is way to go if you have budget for it.
My argumentation - Vintage consumer level PC audio components from 80-90's tend to be very noisy. Waiving analog audio in and out through modules can only add to overall noise floor. That's why in my setup I'm taking analog audio away from vintage sound module as early as possible. Good modern mixer is reasonable investment which can be used in any audio application in household. It helps to reason extra investment.

My setup involves mixer 2 sound cards YMF744, SB32 and 2 romplers Yamaha MU-50 and MT-32 PI.
Midi is routing SB32->MU-50 MIDI IN->MU-50 MIDI TROUGH->MT-32 PI.
Mixer will allow you to tweak digital effects and music independently without going into game/app setting menu.

Since MT-32 PI has ability to switch MT-32 roms on the fly this could be solution to original thread question. I'm happy with my setup. External box with LCD gives me close enough satisfaction. Of course in my case I also enjoyed building that box. Last but not least avoiding vintage hardware scalpers makes me feel good.

Reply 29 of 45, by C0deHunter

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I was thinking about buying a Roland MP-104 Input Selector, but they are virtually impossible to find online these days:

?u=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-WNpFD3UmzwE%2FTmusef8i5zI%2FAAAAAAAC8QA%2FQ5KP25pKvE4%2Fs1600%2F_MG_6290.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Does Roland make a replacement unit that does the same thing?

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 30 of 45, by imi

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I just got a midi patch bay for ~€25 from a music store doesn't need to be from roland, the only important thing is that it should work standalone without being connected to a computer.

Reply 31 of 45, by C0deHunter

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imi wrote on 2021-03-08, 00:23:

I just got a midi patch bay for ~€25 from a music store doesn't need to be from roland, the only important thing is that it should work standalone without being connected to a computer.

I see. So I should look for the search term MIDI patch bay, as 'MIDI Input selector' search term does not bring up anything much.

I just found a local music shop that has this:

?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gearank.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fgear_comparison%2Fpublic%2Fmotu_microlite.jpg%3Fitok%3DhqeHuf0z&f=1&nofb=1

Would this work as and 'input selector'?

Last edited by C0deHunter on 2021-03-08, 00:44. Edited 1 time in total.

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 32 of 45, by darry

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-08, 00:03:
I was thinking about buying a Roland MP-104 Input Selector, but they are virtually impossible to find online these days: […]
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I was thinking about buying a Roland MP-104 Input Selector, but they are virtually impossible to find online these days:

?u=https%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-WNpFD3UmzwE%2FTmusef8i5zI%2FAAAAAAAC8QA%2FQ5KP25pKvE4%2Fs1600%2F_MG_6290.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Does Roland make a replacement unit that does the same thing?

I can't find any MIDI selectors from anybody (as a current product). I believe they went the way of the dodo . There are MIDI patch bays that have additional functionality, but unless you find a deal on a used one, it's likely to be unnecessarily expensive and overkill for your needs .The closest thing I can find that is both inexpensive and easy to find is a MIDI thru box ( like this one https://www.amazon.com/AmpTone-Lab-Powered-Mi … /dp/B01C4W50D8/ ) which replicates what it receives through its MIDI input to multiple MIDI outputs. If you use an audio mixer, that would work fine (all you need to do is keep unused MDI devices muted on the mixer).

IMHO, unless you are looking for creative ways to spend money on while likely providing suboptimal functionality, getting only an inexpensive mixer is probably the cheapest, simplest, most flexible and best quality (audio) solution .
As an optional extra, if you don't want to have to turn on every device in a MIDI thru chain in order for the MIDI signal to get to the device connected at the end (when you want to use that device), a MIDI thru box would be good to consider .

In short :
A nice cheap but well regarded mixer is less than 50 US$ https://www.amazon.com/Rolls-MX42-Stereo-Mini … /dp/B00102ZN40/
An optional MIDI thru box is 65 US$ (and you can probably find cheaper ones on the used market) https://www.amazon.com/AmpTone-Lab-Powered-Mi … /dp/B01C4W50D8/

If that does not suit your needs, preferences or budget, please share where it falls short so that we may assist you in finding a working solution that is acceptable to you .

Reply 33 of 45, by C0deHunter

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Hello darry,

Thanks for recommending the audio mixer. That seems a nice solution, however what I am confused about the mixer is, why it does NOT have any MIDI input/outputs? Just only stereo input / outputs?

With the MIDI input selectors, I was under the impression that I feed AWE64 MIDI IN of selector, then connected the 3 devices that I have (Sc55, MT-32, and UM-ONE) to other MIDI inputs, and with a press of a button, I can select between the 3 devices on the fly.

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 34 of 45, by darry

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-08, 00:50:

Hello darry,

Thanks for recommending the audio mixer. That seems a nice solution, however what I am confused about the mixer is, why it does NOT have any MIDI input/outputs? Just only stereo input / outputs?

With the MIDI input selectors, I was under the impression that I feed AWE64 MIDI IN of selector, then connected the 3 devices that I have (Sc55, MT-32, and UM-ONE) to other MIDI inputs, and with a press of a button, I can select between the 3 devices on the fly.

Hi codehunter, thank you for the added information .

The idea of the audio mixer only solution is that you don't need to fiddle with what device gets MIDI data .
Connection-wise, you just
1) connect all the MIDI devices' MIDI in a chain : AWE64 MIDI-out -->MT-32 MIDI-in , MT-32 MIDI-thru --> SC-55 MID-in , SC-55 MIDI-thru --> UM-ONE MIDI-in
2) connect all the audio (line ) outputs of the AWE64, the MT-32 , the SC-55 and the PC running Munt to the audio inputs on the mixer

Then, when you want to use the setup
a) Turn everything on
b) Unmute what you want to listen to on the mixer (you can unmute only one input, or as many as you like) .

With that setup, you don't need to select anything MIDI wise as all devices always get the MIDI DATA, you just ignore (mute) what you don't want to hear .

If you add a MIDI thru-box, instead of cascading things as in 1), you get the added bonus of not needing to turn on every MIDI device every time you want to use one of them, as the MIDI signal goes from the AWE64's MIDI out into the MIDI thru box and then a given MIDI device receives MIDI data independently of the others (as long as the given device you want to use is turned on). The unused devices do not need to be turned on .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using only a MIDI selector would allow you to send the MIDI signal to only the device you want to use, but you would still need to
a) connect all audio line outs in a chain that ends with your speakers and hear the combined background noise of all them (which adds up) even using only one of them
b) have to keep all devices in the chained turned ON, even when using only one for the audio to reach the speakers .
c) have to continuously fiddle with the volume levels of all devices in the audio chain in order to minimize noise (see also a)

Additionally, you would not have an easy way to control relative volume of devices, since you would not have a mixer .

At the end of the day, a MIDI selector (or patchbay) could work, but , I definitely do not think it would be optimal compared to a mixer-based solution (whether with or without a MIDI thru box).

EDIT : Just to be clear a MIDI thru box is essentially a splitter for MIDI signals . And in case you are curious, unless you get a crappy one, there will be no degradation to the MIDI DATA stream .

EDIT2 : Corrected typos and clarified

Reply 35 of 45, by C0deHunter

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Thank you for kind explanation! I will order the line mixer then!

On a totally separate issue:

how come when I turn my SC-55 Mk II on, its LCD display does not show the initial flash animation?

I remember that in one of LGR videos, I have seen that his clearly demonstrates this animation ('SC II'lettering and words) when his turns it on.
How can I reset my SC55 back to factory default, maybe that does the trick?

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)

Reply 36 of 45, by darry

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-09, 18:56:
Thank you for kind explanation! I will order the line mixer then! […]
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Thank you for kind explanation! I will order the line mixer then!

On a totally separate issue:

how come when I turn my SC-55 Mk II on, its LCD display does not show the initial flash animation?

I remember that in one of LGR videos, I have seen that his clearly demonstrates this animation ('SC II'lettering and words) when his turns it on.
How can I reset my SC55 back to factory default, maybe that does the trick?

A factory RESET won't hurt, but if you have removed the battery (which you should do anyway, as a safety precaution against the battery lraking), unplugging it will jave the same effect as a factoty RESET .

Reply 37 of 45, by Shreddoc

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C0deHunter wrote on 2021-03-09, 18:56:
Thank you for kind explanation! I will order the line mixer then! […]
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Thank you for kind explanation! I will order the line mixer then!

On a totally separate issue:

how come when I turn my SC-55 Mk II on, its LCD display does not show the initial flash animation?

I remember that in one of LGR videos, I have seen that his clearly demonstrates this animation ('SC II'lettering and words) when his turns it on.
How can I reset my SC55 back to factory default, maybe that does the trick?

It will show the animation when power is first applied.

e.g. plug in/switch on the AC power adapter, and you will see the animation.

Under normal operation, the unit is only going into a kind of 'stand-by' (with the orange light) when Power button off, and so when it is switched on from that state, the animation is not shown.

Reply 38 of 45, by C0deHunter

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You guys never cease to amaze me! Thank you!

PIII-800E | Abit BH-6 | Rage 128 Pro Video Card | 256MB SD-RAM PC100 | AWE64 Gold | Sound Canvas 55 MKII | SoftMPU | 2X SanDisk (2004) 2GB CF as C:\ (Win98SE OS) and D:\ (DOS Games) | Windows 98SE (using PhilComputerLabs', *pure* DOS option)